KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX250 / KX125 => Topic started by: Jeeks on August 05, 2008, 08:00:41 AM
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:-D
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Looking at the two shocks in your picture the showa shock shaft looks shorter then the KYB, you may have shorted yourself on travel. The two bikes these shocks came off of probably had very different linkage ratios. :? :?
Jeeks The 05 RM125 shock came in this afternoon so I figured I'd tinker a little.
Showa on the left, original KYB on the right. Below the new shock are the pieces I removed from the clevis.(http://ShowaShock010.jpg)
As far as the clevis goes, I just drilled a new hole in the appropriate location and cut off the excess. The width of the clevis was the exact same as the original KYB. Even the upper mount fit like a glove.
I did, however, have to grind some of the frame for clearance. I removed a 1/8 to 1/4" sliver from the gusset so the shock fit. You can see how close the fit is in the second pic.
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I will probobly need to shorten the rubber bumper 1/4".
Here's the 07 KX250F clamps and the temporary stop. I'll be tearing the bike down over the winter when I'll fab/weld up some permanent stops.
Haven't had arm pump since the swap.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n248/Jeekinz/Misc%20Bike/07Clamps014.jpg)
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n248/Jeekinz/Misc%20Bike/07clamps020.jpg)
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hi, just looking at your stainless steel rad covers? i bought the same ones an found them a pain to fit, how were yours? any chance you could put a pic of them on to see how you did it? thanks
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hi, just looking at your stainless steel rad covers? i bought the same ones an found them a pain to fit, how were yours? any chance you could put a pic of them on to see how you did it? thanks
LOL. Hell yeah they were a pain! MSR garbage! Made from aluminum though. The angled bend I had to put in a vise and bend the opposite direction so you could actually fasten them.
Half the hardware was missing and whoever designed the instructions was on crack.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n248/Jeekinz/Misc%20Bike/RadGuards001.jpg)
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n248/Jeekinz/Misc%20Bike/RadGuards003.jpg)
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yeh mine seem to look the same, when i got them on i thought they had sent me the wrong ones,m but even the instructions say that they need to be bent to fit? they could be a really good product if they had a bit more thought to them?
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thats the way i did mine, the bend on the bracket side, i had to use a lond T-bar to get behind to put the bolts in if you see what i mean? it explained on my instructions to do it like this so to space them off the rad?
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Yeah, I think that's the way the design is "supposed" to work. But you lose the clutch cable bracket that way. Obviously a zip tie or another bolt may work. The design is cheesy to say the least. I'm buying Devols next.
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I think there is like 3/4 inch difference between those two shocks,I don't think cutting a 1/4 inch off the bump stop is going to fix that. It could add up to quite a bit at the end of the swingarm. I'm sure you have done your home work though I really can't tell from here. All I can do is measure the KX shock I have here and then measure the shocks on the screen, then figure the scale and do the math. It might help out if you could put a tape measure up next to the shock shafts. when you show mods like this you should give as much info as possible as too why this is a good idea. I just hate to think someone might follow someone elses example on something like this without knowing all the facts.
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I think there is like 3/4 inch difference between those two shocks,I don't think cutting a 1/4 inch off the bump stop is going to fix that. It could add up to quite a bit at the end of the swingarm. I'm sure you have done your home work though I really can't tell from here. All I can do is measure the KX shock I have here and then measure the shocks on the screen, then figure the scale and do the math. It might help out if you could put a tape measure up next to the shock shafts.
It was only 1/4 -5/16 of an inch. The stopper wasn't pushed completely down in that pic. I removed the difference from the stopper and tested the action on the bike with the spring removed.
when you show mods like this you should give as much info as possible as too why this is a good idea. I just hate to think someone might follow someone elses example on something like this without knowing all the facts.
What do you mean why it's a good idea? It's called "tinkering".
The fork swap was an incredible improvement. So I decided to attempt the shock. I'm not telling people to go out and do this to their bike, I'm just showing what could be done. :roll:
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Anyway, I got the shock back from the suspension shop with new oil/charge. Mounted it up and set the sag.
It seems to go hand and hand with the feel of the forks. I'll get some good seat time on it this weekend.
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It was only 1/4 -5/16 of an inch. The stopper wasn't pushed completely down in that pic. I removed the difference from the stopper and tested the action on the bike with the spring removed.
When you tested the "action" did you measure the the travel :roll:.I'm measuring the distance from the shock body to the spring seat on the kx it's 36mm on the rm it's 30mm. That's a 6mm difference and thats at the size the shock is on my screen. Thats just under 1/4 inch at what is probably 1/4 scale at full scale thats .020 shy of an inch. Evan at third scale it would be 18mm shorter. I also don't think that cutting the stoper adds any stroke to the shock it just means your shock is going to bottom out harder.
What do you mean why it's a good idea? It's called "tinkering".
You know, things like this shock is better for my bike then the one kawaski put on It because????????????????????
I once heard someone say that the idea of this site was to compile the best information on the KX.
The fork swap was an incredible improvement. So I decided to attempt the shock. I'm not telling people to go out and do this to their bike, I'm just showing what could be done. :roll:
According to race techs spring calculator the spring you now have on your bike is a 4.6Kg. Also according to race tech your bike is now sprung for a 90 lb rider :lol: :lol: :lol: how much do you weigh. :roll:
Weather you like it or not people come here looking for ideas.
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Weather you like it or not people come here looking for ideas.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Weather you like it or not people come here looking for ideas.
I couldn't have said it better.
So in other words even if you are not telling people to do what you have done other people are going to do it. I just think if someone is going to do a post like this there should be some good educated info on the hows and whys of it.
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Weather you like it or not people come here looking for ideas.
I couldn't have said it better.
So in other words even if you are not telling people to do what you have done other people are going to do it. I just think if someone is going to do a post like this there should be some good educated info on the hows and whys of it.
If I have to explain to you the differences between 8 year old KYB suspension and modern Showa, I'm better off talking to pre-schoolers.
I'm done with the pissing match you started. If you don't agree with my mods, don't perform them. My bike is MY BIKE, I can do what the hell I want with it. I can put Harley shocks on if I please. So get off my back. :-D
This thread is called "CREATIVE CONTENT" which is what this forum does not have. So go police somewhere else unless you're bringing something useful to the table and not just "by-the-book" BS.
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hey jeeks take it easy!! brian is just trying to come to some conclusion as to why you did this mod and if it would be of any benefit. BDI is a thinker and a doer if the idea makes sense. i've seen the things he's capable of doing to a bike. he's smart and just doesn't want someone to go backwards with their setup. i gotta be honest, i really didn't care about your mod, but brian did and you should be grateful that someone cares about what your doing. bdi wasn't attacking your mod he just wants to see if it did good or bad and some tech info and measurements to back it up. attacks aren't cool and i'm sure that danger a.k.a "david" won't appreciate it either. MADDOGGY
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hey jeeks take it easy!! brian is just trying to come to some conclusion as to why you did this mod and if it would be of any benefit. BDI is a thinker and a doer if the idea makes sense. i've seen the things he's capable of doing to a bike. he's smart and just doesn't want someone to go backwards with their setup. i gotta be honest, i really didn't care about your mod, but brian did and you should be grateful that someone cares about what your doing. bdi wasn't attacking your mod he just wants to see if it did good or bad and some tech info and measurements to back it up. attacks aren't cool and i'm sure that danger a.k.a "david" won't appreciate it either. MADDOGGY
OMG, an intelectual post finally.
Look, who knows how the mod will work. I'm a thinker and a doeer as well. Hence the friggin post! I'll be the first to know this weekend. It was an idea....thats all. I can easily install the original shock in it's place in minutes. I just don't know why he's got to get all up in my s**t like that. This site needs some friggin CONTENT in the other forums, besides the 500 forum. You can't deny that.
If he wanted to be helpful, he would have suggested helpful ideas, instead of bashing the idea from the get-go. I posted the same thing on TT and all I got was helpful ideas....even PM's from a suspension specialist.
Pffft. It's the last time I contribute to this place. :|
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I was trying to be helpfull but you are unhelpable. When I brought up the difference in the shocks you blew me off and treated me like I'm stupid. I will not come right out and tell you that your idea is a bad idea. First I will hint around about it and let you figure it out on your own. If you want a helpfull idea how about this, rebuild your kx shock, spring it correctly for your weight and riding style. Then set your sag, learn something about tuning suspension and go out with a clipboard, pen and a screwdriver. Find some place to test the bikes supension make adjustments one at a time and one click at a time and note the effects the changes make. If you do this correctly you will make that kyb work light years better then any showa you take off a random bike and hack up to fit your kawi. :wink:
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I noticed that all of the pictures of jeeks mod had disappeared. I did not want this to be a dead post with no clue as to what it was about so I took it upon myself to put all the pictures and the explination to them back.
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i'll have to say that a great shock guy can do wonders with your stock body shocks and forks.
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I dont really have a problem with any point of view in this thread bdi has a point because I know for a fact that the littlest things on these bikes are what make them completely different but on the other had mathematically a bumblebee should not be able to fly but as most of you guys know it flies very well and even packs a hardcore bite so just remember that just cause on paper it wont work you wont know for certain until you try it.
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You know guys, I was really trying not to post on this again because I would really like to hear other peoples thoughts.I have to say something though its really deeper then all that if someone was to call me out on a mod that I posted I would back it up with pictures of undeniable measurments of the shocks the amount of travel and anything else prudent to the conversation I would prove to you that my mod was a good mod if it was. My knee jerk reaction would not be to start crying and getting angry but then again my post would have included all that to begin with. As far as trying things goes I have been doing things outside the box since I was big enough to pull the wheels off my match box car and stick different ones on it. When I used to build model cars I would buy three kits just to build one car. Nothing I own is stock, nothing!!!. I love a good battle of wits thats probably what makes me such an A-hole But when you are trying to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man he is probably going to get upset and run and hide.
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You guys have to have an opinion 8-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f-AFAPUEMw&feature=related
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You know guys, I was really trying not to post on this again because I would really like to hear other peoples thoughts.I have to say something though its really deeper then all that if someone was to call me out on a mod that I posted I would back it up with pictures of undeniable measurments of the shocks the amount of travel and anything else prudent to the conversation I would prove to you that my mod was a good mod if it was. My knee jerk reaction would not be to start crying and getting angry but then again my post would have included all that to begin with. As far as trying things goes I have been doing things outside the box since I was big enough to pull the wheels off my match box car and stick different ones on it. When I used to build model cars I would buy three kits just to build one car. Nothing I own is stock, nothing!!!. I love a good battle of wits thats probably what makes me such an A-hole But when you are trying to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man he is probably going to get upset and run and hide.
I personally did not see anything wrong with your posts. Some people just like to bitch and moan about life and their problems and also enjoy dragging them around with them. This place is not TT, nor will it be. If Jeeks does not want to come back, I am not going to lose sleep.
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I like to tinker like jeeks is doing. Sometime it makes sense and sometimes it doesn't, but is just something you wanted to try. Many times I have been 3/4 through a project only to notice a shortcoming that for some reason I didn't notice right aways. That is why it is good to have people like BDI ask the "why", " what if" and the "did you noitice" stuff. Sure I feel stupid (thats the Doh part), but thats all part of learning. Feedback should be "thanks for pointing that out" not the FU stuff. Cam.
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Our boy is back at it again.
This time hes trying to give the guys over at thumpertalk.com some of his wisdom.
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=709495
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hah i just got sucked into his ramblings...
apparently the 98 KX250 is a superbike of some sorts, engine made of pure unobtanium. I'm not doubting the 98 was a decent motor but still...
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Its fine to try and be innovative, but when you are blazing new trails that is when you need to listen to and accept knowledge, criticism, and experience even more than usual. I could go on and on as to why BDI's opinion/posts make immediate sense and should have at least been taken into account and considered. As soon as BDI pointed out some basic differences it was immediately obvious that there was no way to put this shock in the factory shocks place without changing the geometry of the suspension resulting in loss of travel. Plain and simple. At the least you would need to change the linkage to get the shorter travel shock to equate to the total travel available at the end of the swingarm. It all made perfect sense to me. If, and I mean a big IF that shock is supreme over the factory KYB shock (what is supposed to be so technologically advanced???) there would still need to be changes made in other areas otherwise you would be trading suspension travel, for what? Slightly better dampening? Rebound? BDI was just trying to get the guy to think about what he was doing and trying to achieve and whether it was worth it or not or at least make sure he wasn't overlooking something. Some people are just too d**n sensitive and should thus keep their idea/projects to themselves since they cant accept the criticism that very well could have helped push them to the next level. This site is full of PROVEN advancements for our bikes. If you are gonna share an idea or innovation PROVE IT or at least let the brains around here help you/me/us get the best possible outcome from it. As a KXRider I wont accept anything less and like was stated before, we dont want people grabbing a bad idea off this site and running with it. How would that make this site look as a whole? If you have a new idea PLEASE SHARE.... just be open to the brainstorming that will come and be necessary for the best possible results/outcome.
-G
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one time a smart and very wealthy man told me....there are two kinds off ideas good ideas and bad ideas sometimes you dont know until later the diffrence
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i didn't fail 50 times before i found the right way ,i just found 50 new ways not to do it. :lol:
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hah i just got sucked into his ramblings...
apparently the 98 KX250 is a superbike of some sorts, engine made of pure unobtanium. I'm not doubting the 98 was a decent motor but still...
The 98 250 motor was the best all around 250 motor kawi built (in my opinion, oh yeah and all the magazines to), it had super power all the way through the power band. The newer motors prob ably make more hp, but for me I don't like the delivery, there's nothing then a huge hit.
I have thought about doing the same thing, then adding a flat top piston, it'd be a rocket ship that was easy to ride, instead I had a 06 motor big bored, now I have a torque monster.
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I wonder what was going on in 98 because my buddies 98 YZ250 was extraordinarily fast and had alot of power across the board. I have often thought of trying to duplicate the port timing of that bike in a kx500 cylinder.
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you all could be on to something my bike is a 98 too and it has its own part# for the jug. and it seems to out run the 96/97 360's and 99-02 380's
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I think it is no problem building bikes with that kind of power, the difficulty was finding riders that could use the power on the MX track, it was too much for most guys. I've got a complete cylinder/head/ignition off an 88 K5, it looks as though it should be an awesome combo, but then when I tried that in the past it was just OK, so now I'm going to mimic Stewart's head/piston mod to the 88 cylinder, maybe not quite as big an intake window due to the different intake port.