KX Riders

Maintenance & Technical => KX250 / KX125 => Topic started by: queen of spodes on March 01, 2015, 03:54:49 AM

Title: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: queen of spodes on March 01, 2015, 03:54:49 AM
How much drag should I expect to feel on a new motor?  There's a little resistance turning the crank over with the connecting rod (manually with my fingers).   Is this normal?
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: sandblaster on March 01, 2015, 05:33:39 AM
Assuming everything is assembled properly and you used assembly lube, about the only thing you should feel is the seals on the crank shaft journals.
It's very light.
Sometimes a light tap with a rubber mallet on the end of the crank shaft will lessen the slight drag you may be feeling.
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: queen of spodes on March 01, 2015, 09:27:42 AM
Crank spun freely till I put the water pump bolt on (and light torque not ratcheted down).  That's when the I felt the light drag.  I'll try bumping it with my rubber deadblow.
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: sandblaster on March 01, 2015, 09:47:16 AM
Ah... I guess I should have asked how far along the build was.
I was thinking that you only had the cases together and no other attachments.
The bump may not work and you may have to hunt for other binding area's one at a time.
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: queen of spodes on March 01, 2015, 10:07:37 AM
s**t.  Really don't want to have to pull the motor apart again. 
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: queen of spodes on March 01, 2015, 10:44:23 AM
Just went out and pulled the clutch cover & clutch assembly.   Loosened the right side crank nut.   Still have the same amount of drag on the crank when I spin it (maybe a teeny bit less, but not enough to count).   Next I loosened all the centercase bolts - same amount of drag.   

The input shaft spins freely, it's something with the crankshaft.    But what could it be exactly? 
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: queen of spodes on March 01, 2015, 03:00:34 PM
Hoping for some legit help.. this is my first solo engine splitting/reassembly project.   


What things could cause the crank to bind (the transmission input & output shafts are not bound and do not have any drag).  Could I have pressed a bearing too far or not far enough?   
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: dave916 on March 01, 2015, 10:36:42 PM
Just went out and pulled the clutch cover & clutch assembly.   Loosened the right side crank nut.   Still have the same amount of drag on the crank when I spin it (maybe a teeny bit less, but not enough to count).   Next I loosened all the centercase bolts - same amount of drag.   

The input shaft spins freely, it's something with the crankshaft.    But what could it be exactly? 
I Would not go loosening centrecase nuts as u will damage the case sealer {probably need to take cases apart if u have }
looking back on your build thread look like u fitted the crank on the flwheel side first which is not way i would do it 
how did u fit{ method} the clutch side case on??   
Any tapping lightly hammer on case could cause u crank go out of true
A out of true will bind on the bearing at certain point more
IF it is  constain drag it could be the crank not centred on the bearings or side load on bearings due to crank bearing interferane fit
 
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: queen of spodes on March 02, 2015, 12:56:47 AM
What should the distance between crank half and case be on each side? Figure that'll be a good place to start.   

I'm mentally preparing for having to pull this engine apart again if need be.  :(   Just want to ensure it's done right.  I didn't know to check for crank centered-ness when installing earlier, or to install it on the right side first. 
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: dave916 on March 02, 2015, 01:42:07 AM
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,11854.0.html


pretty much how i would do it except i would NOT put retainer [loctite}on the flywheel side inner race/ the crank need endfloat there heat expansion etc
You could u use pullers like u did on flywheel side/ But it always going to put a little strain on main bearing , but a good enough method as it does not risk any crank truning issues

{What should the distance between crank half and case be on each side? Figure that'll be a good place to start. }??
 ??
distance will vary between differant cranks {just centre it between cases]
be carefull hitting any crank end as without a JIG as you will untrue you crank /  a gentle tap on clutch side should be all thats needed if you fit that side first

your main concern would be not puting   your crank out of true




Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: don46 on March 02, 2015, 03:48:18 AM
Did you press it together? If so I would expect it to have a slight drag, kawie has a fork device if your going to press to ensure you do not press it out of true. If you have the fork device I would install it and tap the crank on the clutch side, that should center it and take the load off the bearings. I would also run a dial on the ends to make sure it is true. I use the hear/cold method, no pressing and everything fits nicely
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: queen of spodes on March 02, 2015, 05:15:15 AM
I'll get a feeler gauge on either side of the crank halves tonight and see what I come up with.   The crank was rebuilt by RB Designs (http://www.rb-designs.com/rb_designs_llc_006.htm) using NOS OEM bearings & con rod.   

Here are a couple pics from when I put the crank in the cases (http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,13312.msg110339.html#msg110339).  Sounds like you normally install it in the clutch side first then the ignition side second. 

IF I have to pull the cases apart again, will I need to get new main bearings or just the seals?  I used the freezer & heat method for installing the first side.  
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: dave916 on March 02, 2015, 06:45:24 AM
I'll get a feeler gauge on either side of the crank halves tonight and see what I come up with.   The crank was rebuilt by RB Designs (http://www.rb-designs.com/rb_designs_llc_006.htm) using NOS OEM bearings & con rod.   

Here are a couple pics from when I put the crank in the cases (http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,13312.msg110339.html#msg110339).  Sounds like you normally install it in the clutch side first then the ignition side second. 

IF I have to pull the cases apart again, will I need to get new main bearings or just the seals?  I used the freezer & heat method for installing the first side.  

Did the clutch  side case go together easy?

IF it did i would not go pullling it apart again
even using the freezer /heat method requires a bit of practice{speed}
To centre the crank from flywheel side u could LIGHTLY wedge something between crank webs to keep it true
IF u mount the motor steady and check the crank ends with a dial gauge { even checking the outer of crank webs all round {caliper] woul give u a good idea if its stiil true
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: queen of spodes on March 02, 2015, 11:33:12 AM
The clutch side went in okay, didn't have to fuss with it at all. 

Got measurements between the case & crank wheel.   Clutch side: .046 in.   Ignition side .034 in. 

Ignition side clearance: .034 in.
(http://i.imgur.com/MQ1IaYH.jpg)

Clutch side clearance: .046 in.
(http://i.imgur.com/W2KrxBs.jpg)
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: queen of spodes on March 02, 2015, 03:26:12 PM
Setting aside the dial wheel for a minute, assuming this crank is still in true -- how do I get it centered?  

Edit to add some links for looking at later:
http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/1005042-crank-centering-question-95-200-h1/

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/806746-centering-the-crank-94-cr125-after-rebuild-slight-binding/

Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: dave916 on March 02, 2015, 11:11:48 PM
check the gaps at more points with the feeler gauge { eg 12 ,3, 6 9 ,oclock 12being where the con rod is
if the gaps are pretty similiar 12/6 oclock you crank should be pretty true

IF you crank is out of true the drag you feel will only be at certain points

To centre the crank you need to tap it Lightly at the flywheel nut with soft hammer {or hold a bit of wood against flywheel nut}
idealiy you should use a crank jig but it will help to wedge LIGHTLY some thing between crank webs oppisite conrod} crank at BDC

remeber very GENTLE tapping   :-D
GOOD LUCK


Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: queen of spodes on March 03, 2015, 12:25:43 PM
check the gaps at more points with the feeler gauge { eg 12 ,3, 6 9 ,oclock 12being where the con rod is
if the gaps are pretty similiar 12/6 oclock you crank should be pretty true

IF you crank is out of true the drag you feel will only be at certain points

Will check and post findings later tonight or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: queen of spodes on March 03, 2015, 12:35:25 PM
Gap between the counterweight & case is identical at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock on both sides.
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: sandblaster on March 03, 2015, 01:16:36 PM
What all do you have installed on the outside of the cases?
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: queen of spodes on March 03, 2015, 01:44:49 PM
What all do you have installed on the outside of the cases?

I had everything on the right side, but have since removed it all as I thought I'd have to split cases again.   Nothing installed on the flywheel side.

The big question for me is can I get the right main crank bearing fully seated without splitting?   If it's not fully seated, that would maybe explain the slight drag I felt.  (?)
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: sandblaster on March 03, 2015, 02:21:25 PM
So nothing is installed except for the crank and internal crank case parts?
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: queen of spodes on March 03, 2015, 02:35:35 PM
And the crank seals.  Correct.
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: queen of spodes on March 03, 2015, 03:06:44 PM
Here's what it looks like right now.

Flywheel side:
(http://i.imgur.com/IPAPRWW.jpg)

Clutch side:
(http://i.imgur.com/6xbZ7qj.jpg)

If I torque down the right side crank nut to spec, the crank has the drag again.  If that is loose the crank spins like what I'd expect (very light resistance from moving the crank against the seal). 

Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: sandblaster on March 03, 2015, 04:32:47 PM
Well....
The only thing I can think of is the bearing not being correctly seated....
I sure hope that someone else has a better idea...
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: LukeG on March 03, 2015, 04:58:53 PM
Or is there a washer that's a poofteenth too thick, or is a gear the wrong way around. Does sound like a bearing not being seated properly.
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: dave916 on March 03, 2015, 10:00:19 PM
You need to tap Lightly on the flywheel side bolt  until resistance  goes away /no more  { THATS All}
you could do it in stages as u tighten the nut
let us know how u get on

your problem is that u fitted the crank to flywheel side first which pulls the bearing into the endfloat{ crank off centre towards the flywheel}

The crank might set a liittle more to the clutch side when finished tightening the nut/ dont worry about this  as it  preset from the factory
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: sandblaster on March 04, 2015, 02:52:54 AM
Oh... you haven't tapped on the side of the crank yet?
I assumed that you already did it way at the beginning when I suggested it but it didn't fix the problem.
If you haven't yet tapped, by all means do that next, just don't get crazy with it  :wink:
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: queen of spodes on March 04, 2015, 11:46:43 AM
Got it.   Torqued down the main gear to spec.  Worked up a makeshift jig, then gave a couple of love taps to the left end of the crank.  Felt a little pop on the second tap.  Crank now spins freely like I'd expect with new bearings & seals.  Don't see a ton of difference in measuring the side clearance but it feels right now.

Mucho, mucho gracias. 
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: sandblaster on March 04, 2015, 04:54:08 PM
I'm sure dave916 feels the same way I do... wheeewwww.....  :lol:
Title: Re: Slight drag when spinning crankshaft
Post by: dave916 on March 04, 2015, 09:09:30 PM
I'm sure dave916 feels the same way I do... wheeewwww.....  :lol:

iF I had seen the last pictures a bit sooner  :-D :-D
just shows how important pictures are

Good luck with the rest of build