Maintenance & Technical > KX450F / KX250F
KX450F vs. KX500
BigGreenMachine:
--- Quote ---...they dont manufacture a good enough chest protector and enough tear-offs to stay behind a KX-500 very long...
--- End quote ---
Great quote!
TheGDog:
I owned an '01 KTM 450MXC and now have a '96 KX500. The KTM was heavier and felt TONS heavier. The ergos were a little thinner, and it was a little less effort to stuff into a turn... The suspenion is not MILEs apart like some people are saying.
If wheelspin is an issue for you on the K5.. then it's very likely that all ya gotta do is just click-up to the next higher gear and make use of that 500 grunt.
It's strange how some people on here are soo stuck on the concept that BECAUSE it's a 4t you believe it's faster for you in situation X, Y or Z.
I will agree that probably the MAJORITY of your average Joe riders can go faster on a 4t because the power comes on in a more linear fashion so they don't have to learn as much finesse and the fine-art of clutch work fishing for traction. And they don't have that yummy concentrated "hit" of power centered around a certain rev-range as 2t's are more usually prone to do.
Personally... I've found that the 2t style of power... and having much-less of the compression braking affect in the long run teaches me to ride faster. it's like you sorta are forced to learn how to enter into corners coming in hotter than you would on the 4t. I don't quite know how to put it.
And puh-lease!!!... ANY 250cc 2t can murder a 450 4t any day of the week.
Yeah... sure... if you put a total SQUID behind the controls that's not going to happen... but any reasonably competent Vet on a 250 2t will eventually slip past a guy on a 450 4t.
And comparing the 450 4t with a K5.. HA!!! There is just NO COMPARISON!
Phew... it makes me drool to try to imagine just how bad-a$$ one of that KX500AF's must be. Putting the K5 BEAST into a one of the new-style nimble, narrow frames.. now THAT would be something to BEHOLD!!!
As for why you are only seeing 4t's on the starting line at SuperCross events... DUH!!!! The companies are dumping all kindsa R & D money to go this 4t route since they fear the EPA eventually will stomp-out 2t's... not only that.. they know they can make a boat-load more money at the dealership with the increased maintenance service costs
don46:
--- Quote from: TheGDog on June 22, 2008, 07:40:08 PM ---I owned an '01 KTM 450MXC and now have a '96 KX500. The KTM was heavier and felt TONS heavier. The ergos were a little thinner, and it was a little less effort to stuff into a turn... The suspenion is not MILEs apart like some people are saying.
If wheelspin is an issue for you on the K5.. then it's very likely that all ya gotta do is just click-up to the next higher gear and make use of that 500 grunt.
It's strange how some people on here are soo stuck on the concept that BECAUSE it's a 4t you believe it's faster for you in situation X, Y or Z.
I will agree that probably the MAJORITY of your average Joe riders can go faster on a 4t because the power comes on in a more linear fashion so they don't have to learn as much finesse and the fine-art of clutch work fishing for traction. And they don't have that yummy concentrated "hit" of power centered around a certain rev-range as 2t's are more usually prone to do.
Personally... I've found that the 2t style of power... and having much-less of the compression braking affect in the long run teaches me to ride faster. it's like you sorta are forced to learn how to enter into corners coming in hotter than you would on the 4t. I don't quite know how to put it.
And puh-lease!!!... ANY 250cc 2t can murder a 450 4t any day of the week.
Yeah... sure... if you put a total SQUID behind the controls that's not going to happen... but any reasonably competent Vet on a 250 2t will eventually slip past a guy on a 450 4t.
And comparing the 450 4t with a K5.. HA!!! There is just NO COMPARISON!
Phew... it makes me drool to try to imagine just how bad-a$$ one of that KX500AF's must be. Putting the K5 BEAST into a one of the new-style nimble, narrow frames.. now THAT would be something to BEHOLD!!!
As for why you are only seeing 4t's on the starting line at SuperCross events... DUH!!!! The companies are dumping all kindsa R & D money to go this 4t route since they fear the EPA eventually will stomp-out 2t's... not only that.. they know they can make a boat-load more money at the dealership with the increased maintenance service costs
--- End quote ---
I wasn't going to reply to this but in the end felt compelled to comment, and I might add that I have a 06 250 2t, 07 450 4t and aluminum framed 500, my son has raced nationals so he's no slouch on the track. The 500 is great in the wide open, hillclimbs, desert sand, the 250 is a fun bike trail riding, the 450 is a track bike, having said that there is no way equal riders the 250 will run with the 450 on the track, you can talk about finesse whatever, it won't happen. When yamaha came out with the 250f and the rest of the brands still had 2t, you had to have a better rider to compete with the 4t, on a local level mediocre riders purchased 250f's and all the sudden became top level riders. There are some tracks where a 250 can do well, momentum tracks like Mammoth Mountain, but it seems there are a awful lot of slick hard tracks out there and the 250 won't do it .
I might ask what you basis for comparsion is? do you have these bikes? or are you just assuming? Don't get me wrong I like them all, but they are purpose built machines. Maybe in the Vet class and even beginner classes the 250 can be competitive, not in the Pro class.
I don't like the KTM suspension, so your probably right the 500 and you 01 450 were probably not that far off. Nothing personal to you KTM owners, that's just my opinion.
One other comment, I think I like the 500 in the 05 250f steel frame better than the 450 aluminum frame, it feels much smaller and seems to handle better, can't quantify that just going by feel.
kayx250:
--- Quote from: don46 on June 23, 2008, 03:39:23 AM ---
I might ask what you basis for comparsion is? do you have these bikes? or are you just assuming? Don't get me wrong I like them all, but they are purpose built machines. Maybe in the Vet class and even beginner classes the 250 can be competitive, not in the Pro class.
--- End quote ---
Thats what I was going to ask.....I actually have both a 03 kx 250 with a 2005 engine, and a 2008 kx450f and I can tell you there aint no way in hell with equally compitent riders on both bikes would a 250 win.... thats the whole reason I bought one I talked all the crap about how 2-strokes were better then I raced him and he dusted my a$$ and he made me a believer if I liked it or not then I took my bone stock 450 to the beach to drag race at pismo and was slaughtering modded 250 2-strokes left and right while I was just having fun riding a wheelie not even getting into 5th and they still couldnt touch me
I have a feeling all these people who "claim" a 250 would smoke a 450 havent even ridden a new 450..
also like I said I still have a 2-stroke and when I feel like fishtailing for miles i take it but if I just want to rip i'll take the fo fiddy
GDubb:
--- Quote --- then I took my bone stock 450 to the beach to drag race at pismo and was slaughtering modded 250 2-strokes left and right while I was just having fun riding a wheelie not even getting into 5th and they still couldnt touch me
--- End quote ---
I have a buddy I used to ride with that took his bone stock '95 Yamaha WR250 2t (no, NOT a YZ... a WR!) to the dunes with an 8 cup paddle on it and whooped the snot out of a paddled crf450 and a YZ426 across the flats. Wasn't even close. Granted I have never had the oportunity to ride a shiny new 4t and would love to have one so I have no gripe about them other than the maintenance and cost for rebuilds... but I have ridden sand for years and no bike makes power and comes out of the hole and then runs wide open on top like a 2t across the flats. If you were wheelieing and not touching 5th then those were either squids you were racing or those bikes had issues. If you did beat a stock 250 on your stock 450, both in good running condition and with similar riding abilities then it would still be a d**n close race, not wheelieing in a gear lower. However, I would give the 4t full advantage on a track.... just not wide open across the flats.
-G
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