KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Aluminum Frame Conversion (AFC) => Topic started by: 81cr450 on June 13, 2011, 03:50:55 PM
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I gotta buncha parts & cant quite see how it goes together
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OOOohhh....
That will look nice when you get her all figured out! 8-)
Tuck\o/
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Should be way fun. I'm antsy to have her done if I could just get the cylinder & cases back ...
This is a pic of the trial run, wanted to make sure I'd like it before I comitted alot of effort to it , sold it & started on this one . It does say kips on the side of the cylinder but I'd grafted a honda clutch cover on the other side to make people wonder
You can also see in the second pic how the kicker rubs the pipe, in the locked possition it was resting right on the pipe.
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Is that a cr500 CPI Dragg pipe in the first pic? if so that will look great on the bike
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Silly Rabbit...Tricks are for kids! :-D
Nothing wrong with that, Best of both worlds 8-)
Tuck\o/
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Hot glue guns work wonders.
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I was thinkin duck tape, then you get the awesome imitation chrome look too :mrgreen:52
My pics really dont do the powder coat justice though, its a sparkly rainbow prizmatic metal flake that the light coming in through the window is hitting right now, this'll even look cooler than fake chrome in the sun
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I'm trying to help someone here because once you go AF your prettywell bastardized & just as well use whats easiest. How does no cutting of the Y sound, if you like read on. My ideal conversion is "gen3 & CPI". but this second round is a gen 2 which you can make work while getting the stiffest frame & the good forks but the swinger is a bigger PITA. Heres some pics of swinger clearance on the gen 2. That radius sucks. Your so close to the seal surface its hard not to cut into it, tip leave the old seal in while you do it.
Just a hind sight here looking at the pic I'd bet you could push the seal back to the bearing & just grind it flat easily.
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Still with me ? We gotta cut the case with a decent end mill. .125 off the kicker side I think its .535 off the sproket side but I'm not sure there. Cant find my standard. Well I ended up with mockup cases on this cause my main bore is shot. Tool for the next build I guess. On the gen 3 it worked out opposite like 125 off the sproket side & the 535 off the kicker side. When you set up your mount height you want set it off of the kicker move it to 3/4 stroke & set your mounts from there. When you have it right you will see that your pipe will clear the Y . Lower pic is where I'm showing what I mean by 3/4 stroke, as thats the tightest spot for clearance.
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If your balls aint sweating cutting up a $350 pipe kudos to you.
Yes livenlife699 it is the CPI sand pipe, I'm hoping where I'm going 550cc that it will help bring powerband back a little lower as it is a topend pipe
Also just gotta show the Teraflex again if you havent seen one you should. Its the way to get the power to the ground & they arent really that heavy
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Still with me ? We gotta cut the case with a decent end mill. .125 off the kicker side I think its .535 off the sproket side but I'm not sure there. Cant find my standard. Well I ended up with pratice cases on this cause my main bore is shot. on the gen 3 it worked out opposite like 125 off the sproket side & the 535 off the kicker side. When you set up your mount height you want set it off of the kicker move it to 3/4 stroke & set your mounts from there. When you have it right you will see that your pipe will clear the Y
Doesnt look like there is room for the exaust springs?
Which teraflex is it? I hear there are 2 places of manufacture... one ROCKS, one is So so... (think one is steel belted, one isnt)...
How heavy is it?
Looking good thus far!
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Everything is tight at this point, your kicker alignment sucks. It either rubs the pipe or frame even though I clearanced it, "the frame," after setting it up when I did the motor mounts. I'm hoping to hit a half gear on the nuetral setup in the case sprag, or I'll get a kx420 kicker & bend it with the torch to get a fit between the frame & pipe. The CPI does kick ass over the FMF or Procircuit for fit. The springs for attaching the pipe are a challenge but look at broken frame pics of AF conversions on the net & you'll be hessitant to cut like me. Just a bit of die grinding in the kicker C will help & but do it before you powder coat. Even after that you can trim on the kicker stubb & gain a little more. you will have to mount the jug & then roll it into the mounts to assemble it which is a struggle for some. The 3.7 gallon tank is a must, after pushing a bike 2mi home 3 times you'll see Y , it should clear the plug & head nicely . Those stock 250 tanks are only good for 1hr & 45 minutes "no longer"
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It is the sucky Tflex Moto but I will replace it with the USA version in a month of riding. The springs are tight but if you stretch 2 coils into a straight you have the flat spot you need to clear the frame. Tell me how the total seal worked & please answer on the reeds. Paul has my boot & visions of greatness are dancing through my head. What are you doing on your "mix & match"
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Man '81,
That is really trick set-up! Hoping to see some action shots soon. :-D
Carry on there Troop!
Tuck\o/
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Not really trick Tuck, I'm PO' so the easier & cheaper the better. The chassis was $375 after I sold the motor & plastic. The motor I've lost track on after a grand or better, but I bought a running 1999 with a spare motor for $1300 sold the motor for $850 & pieced the rest on ebay for about another $600. Most of the cash is in the 550cc kit & the fact my powervalves & case's were shot. I'll post some pics on Windowing &coating the piston, balancing the crank, & assembly that I'm doing myself, as it is my trade. Be another week or 2 depending on how long it take the cases & cylinder to get here
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I'd really like to show some riding pics as I live in 500 land. My wheels also arent trick just an 84 yz490 rear rim & a 89 cr 500 front. The 84 yz rear rim is 32 spoke & 2 1/2 inch, I shouldnt share that but O well. I also got rid of the cheasy plastic cased clutch shaft bearing with a factory honda steel cased bearing, & I'm trying a half sealled bearing on the sprocket side of the case to try to help keep out debris, I popped the seal out of the trans side & left the seal in the counter shaft seal side
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Is that a gen2 frame? Even so, I'm surprised the kx motor fits so closely. Should be a nice handler. Good luck! (Good you didn't convert the old alu frame)
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Yeah its a 2001 gen2. The k5 case is like an inch shorter than the CR5, which is part of what makes this do-able. You also get alot better power too :mrgreen:
Just a couple pics here to show what I mean by flat spring to clear the frame. It still needs to be cut to length but it makes a clearer illustration.
Theres a pic to show how close it gets to the frame on the powervalve access, also it shows how I made the spring hook eyes into spring hook ears. I grooved the back side of the ears with a dremel to keep the spring from sliding off.
The tail of the pipe need a little bend & the arrow it pointing at the joint that needed bending the arrow is also pointing the dirrection I had to bend it.
The kicker pics illustrate yet again one of the poorest parts of an af build with the k5 motor. It needs more of a cr500 bend like they did with the advancement of the lowpipe in 1989 , the k5 stuck with the high pipe clear through 2004 so the kicker is just not ideal. I'm gonna use an old forged steel kdx420 kicker & hopefully I can bend it to fit without weakening it to the point I end up with it sticking through my calf muscle.
Also notice the fliped water outlet, pretty standard AF fare.
Mod's sorry for all the pics, if its a waste of space feel free to delete or edit as you see fit
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That's a tight fit! The honda guys will go as far as clearancing the 'Y' by grinding some alu out of the crotch of the 'Y'. Some of the stuff they do to make the motor fit seems scary but who knows.
I thought that was a pic of your hand and thought, cool, the guy's missing fingers and can still fab the bike. Then i noticed it's one of those Dr Evil pets! :-D
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No I'm "barely" skilled enough to fab with all my fingers, not like the awesome Dude with no arms who can change his own brakes.
Her name's Peaches & she is a whole lotta help. Hard not to get a pic of anything around here without a couple sphynx investigating what your doing. I had to hide my new tall seat cause they thought it was for them to sharpen their claws on :evil: little demons
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I ended up doing more powdercoating than anything last weekend. I did manage to get the new rear pipe mount made & tacked on as well as the head pipe tacked too. Another demonstration of tac first, fit, then cut off, re-tac, refit. Just glad it wasnt more than a tac as the rear mount needs to be clocked a little. All in all happy as the spring clears the frame good
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Got a pic or 2, can you tell whats missing. Been 6 1/2 months waiting on a recoat and head cut & some parts. SICK of waiting when thats the first stuff I sent out. But I did get back a "nice" case. I added some jb weld thinking it might strengthen & dampen the side of the crank that shows the most bearing wear on the cases & crank. I also got the measurments doing the 3rd case cut & the swinger bolt size. I used a .658 drill bit for the hole & then hone it with a sunnen rod hone to get a final size of .665 on the rear swinger bolt. I've heard you can kill alot of af vibes here by keeping the size tight. the final width of the case comes in at 3.320 with .255 coming off the sprocket side & .115 coming off the clutch side. I will epoxy the dead space in the rear of the case to help strengthen it as well as prevent leaks. I didnt go through on either case so it should still be quite solid so no worries on the case in the rear, but if your anal you can epoxy in extra material like an old wrist pin for more support. Thats what I did on the first bike but I really think its okay without. I'd also like to add I'm a sucky welder, but the pipe does fit & I'll have more pics of it when I have a motor.
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This is my broke time of year & I got held up with the motor over the summer, so put me on the fast track to a slow build. :-D I did end up with a 90mm bore cylinder back from the motor mess, but no head so I have a hang up there. I did come up with a cherry 2004 std cylinder in the meantime though. What I'd like some input on is, are 90mm bores bad, or should I send off my std bore jug & just replate it. Some of the guys I've talked to think the 90mm might be :roll: questionable. Im sure I could sell it & get my stock jug plated, I'm just curious if its a bad call or should I use it. Either way I'm still short a head but I'm kinda wondering which jug to get rid of. I also have a sleeved 87.5mm jug with a good used 88mm piston I could use too,525 :evil:, but I wanna stick with the nikasil for longevity.
As the title states HELP
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This is my broke time of year & I got held up with the motor over the summer, so put me on the fast track to a slow build. :-D I did end up with a 90mm bore cylinder back from the motor mess, but no head so I have a hang up there. I did come up with a cherry 2004 std cylinder in the meantime though. What I'd like some input on is, are 90mm bores bad, or should I send off my std bore jug & just replate it. Some of the guys I've talked to think the 90mm might be :roll: questionable. Im sure I could sell it & get my stock jug plated, I'm just curious if its a bad call or should I use it. Either way I'm still short a head but I'm kinda wondering which jug to get rid of. I also have a sleeved 87.5mm jug with a good used 88mm piston I could use too,525 :evil:, but I wanna stick with the nikasil for longevity.
As the title states HELP
what reasons are they giving for the 90 being questionable..
(besides the thing I know is wrong with your cyl... that was supposed to get fixed, and didnt)
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This is my broke time of year & I got held up with the motor over the summer, so put me on the fast track to a slow build. :-D I did end up with a 90mm bore cylinder back from the motor mess, but no head so I have a hang up there. I did come up with a cherry 2004 std cylinder in the meantime though. What I'd like some input on is, are 90mm bores bad, or should I send off my std bore jug & just replate it. Some of the guys I've talked to think the 90mm might be :roll: questionable. Im sure I could sell it & get my stock jug plated, I'm just curious if its a bad call or should I use it. Either way I'm still short a head but I'm kinda wondering which jug to get rid of. I also have a sleeved 87.5mm jug with a good used 88mm piston I could use too,525 :evil:, but I wanna stick with the nikasil for longevity.
As the title states HELP
I have seen a few of the "Big Bores" lately needing lots of Head Gasket attention. On that big of a bore you are getting very close to the head studs & water jackets with the bore, but with that said, these motors I have seen are running very high compression which I am sure is not helping matters. I will wait to see if there is a cure.
Hope this helps,
DoldGuy
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DoldGuy I can see the pinsinault head gasket I got being a problem as the copper had some trash in it when they pressed it right where the fire ring would be , but cometic will let you special order bore size specific so I think thats covered. Not going to go beyond pump gas compression either. & .080 closer to the stud would distort more
Like you said on your ideal build 88x88 Motorrad, why arent you thinking bigger.It seems like most tend to stay as close to stock size, like bigger is bad. I can see thin, hot spots as being a legitimate thought but... When I ordered the piston I actually ordered a 91 & they said no cant go bigger than 90 without a sleeve, so I realize its gotta be borderline just wondering where the reliability becomes an issue I guess.
As far as the problem that didnt get fixed, the bridges werent cracked I just wanted them beefed up which didnt happen. As you can see
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I actually am thinking 90X88 now...
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not related, but what the heck is that white critter in the first picture? Looks like a chiuhuha crossed with a cat!??
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Shpynx cat, named Peaches O'chit. If you like cats they're the chit, no hair to gag on when you pet them & they act more like dogs.
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Finally moving forward again. With a little time I built a jig to cut my dome ,not pretty but I didnt have a jig to copy & just used what I had. Took some time to dial in but I'm underway again. Hoping to get it done this weekend. CC'd it at 47cc, with the 550 big bore I hope it comes in at 155psi static, math says it should be close. The stock head was at 85.5 mm bore, you'd think the factory could get closer.
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that is going to be one sick setup when you get done with it.. one place you should check out if you want to get a big bore kit or motor mods done to your bike is Eric Gorr of forward motion.. he did my buddies bike and took his motor from being a big rust bucket when he bought the 500 to being the fastest thing ive ever ridden.. just a thought. :-P
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The first bike I did was a 525 with an eric gorr jug. Umm... I wasnt really that impressed with his work. The cylinder had little pock marks & I paid for porting & he wouldnt touch it. When it came back it took a couple hours porting for me to call it useable. Slag around the rim of all the ports was bad, & the powervalve areas needed serious help. He did get it back quick though, & refunded the cost of the porting. This will eat it's lunch though.
I still cant figure how to get decent work done I pay in advance & try not to pressure but, crap work is just that. I'll have the bike I've been trying to get for the last 2 years soon though.
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d**n.. sounds like you have have had a F****d up time with motors..when Gorr did my buddies it was clean and porting was done to make her scream.. i also had him do my top end and it was great.... but maybe you just know more about what its supposed to look like then me.. lol.. well if you find someone that does a quality job let me know.. thats one of the many things i wanna do to my 5hunny in the future... hope you get your bike to where you want it
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I feel your pain
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When I ordered the piston I actually ordered a 91 & they said no cant go bigger than 90 without a sleeve, so I realize its gotta be borderline just wondering where the reliability becomes an issue I guess.
You could go 91mm if you use the 88 or older cylinder, thats what I did. Haven't got the head right yet but when I get it I think it will be a pretty sweet combination
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Darnit , wish I knew about the 88 jug being able to go to the 91mm before. I like the idea of eliminating that center flapper, as it doesnt seem like you could be gaining much with it & 1 less moving part to wear out , would be great.
I do have a couple more pics but I need to figure out how to do the image hosting thing again.
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What is a safe powervalve center flapper to piston clearance? I'm thinking .025 , but I'd rather be safe than sorry.
Found it on wiseco's site
Exhaust Power Valves (2-cycle engines)
When boring cylinders with exhaust power valves, the exhaust power valve must be inspected
to ensure it does not extend into the cylinder. The exhaust power valve must have
approximately .015? clearance from the cylinder bore. Without proper clearance, the
exhaust power valve could contact the piston and engine damage could occur. If
machining the exhaust power valve is necessary, remove metal only in the area that extends
into the cylinder bore. (See illustration A)
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How much static compression PSI is pump gas safe ? I have 170 with pretty well stock port timing. & how much will raising the jug .010 help? I have .039 squish clearance if that makes any difference. 5000 ft in elevation & up
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Short answer.....perfect run it..
Long answer..
Stock they dont like pump fuel...
recut on squish ban is a must
what CC is your Head?
static compression ratio?
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47cc is what I ended up with, for 550cc's of motor.
4-5 degree squish angle. .039 squish
170 psi static , but I'm thinking you want corrected? Which I havent figured. Port heights are stock, just cleaned up. Thanks for the response, I just dont want to detonate the guts out of the thing.
Just a note I had to fix the squish angle after a couple rides, it hit HARD & tacked up quick but hit a wall up top. The constant 4 degree squish was over accellerating the combustibles. You need the 4-5* angle just for the first 4mm from the outside then the angle changes to 14-15* into the dome pocket.
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47cc is what I ended up with, for 550cc's of motor.
4-5 degree squish angle. .039 squish
170 psi static , but I'm thinking you want corrected? Which I havent figured. Port heights are stock, just cleaned up. Thanks for the response, I just dont want to detonate the guts out of the thing.
I ment 4t ratio.. When all of us around here state our comp numbers it's uncorrected. So we can have a base comparison...
Only one squish cut? Most run 4deg. Into 15deg
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here is my favorate one..
easy to swap back and forth between metric and standard... stupid metric system
http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html
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yep just straight cut .125 radius into the bowl. Nice calculator, eagle rod has one but sae only. That is going into the favorites. I'll have to call Pinsinault tomorrow to get the dome cc.
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47cc is what I ended up with, for 550cc's of motor.
4-5 degree squish angle. .039 squish
170 psi static , but I'm thinking you want corrected? Which I havent figured. Port heights are stock, just cleaned up. Thanks for the response, I just dont want to detonate the guts out of the thing.
90mm bore, 47cc, at stock port heights will be about 7.4 to 1 corrected. 12.6 to 1 uncorrected. That's fine for 93-100 octane.
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yep just straight cut .125 radius into the bowl. Nice calculator, eagle rod has one but sae only. That is going into the favorites. I'll have to call Pinsinault tomorrow to get the dome cc.
What's your deck hight?
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Flat .000 using the .020 kawasaki base gasket
Didnt get a chance to get the dome cc today had to pull 2 cr500 motors after work. Ughhh I'm getting old
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Called Pinsonnault today 12.5:1 & 7.5:1 93-100 octane
Good call GREENKAW24
A stock motor is 7.4:1 so it should be okay, was also said. He couldnt give me the dome cc though?
I think I'm just gonna do the 50/50 pump / avgas mix . Best just to have it run right , might get rode a little less though.
Just did some reading on avgas & found a good article
http://www.klemmvintage.com/gasolines.htm
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How can they tell you all that and not tell you the head CC?
I have been bit by head CC before...
wanted 40CC.. ran bike, was down on power from where I thoguht it should be.. ended up being at 46cc..
Yea.. thats only like.. A TON OF COMPRESSION POINTS differance...
when you get up in the Big bore motors.. it really matters..
40cc to 42cc is the differance between 15:1 and 13:1 (once again going off my bad memory here)
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81CR450,
I am the one you called. You gave me a cc number of 47cc, I figured you meant the net cc when the top end is assembled? In that case it would be the 12.6 to 1/7.4 to 1 ratios, if the 47cc was just in the head, I would have needed to know your deck height, gasket thickness, and step depth to find your net cc from the 47, and your compression ratios would be different.
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How can they tell you all that and not tell you the head CC?
I have been bit by head CC before...
wanted 40CC.. ran bike, was down on power from where I thoguht it should be.. ended up being at 46cc..
Yea.. thats only like.. A TON OF COMPRESSION POINTS differance...
when you get up in the Big bore motors.. it really matters..
40cc to 42cc is the differance between 15:1 and 13:1 (once again going off my bad memory here)
40cc would be 13.5 to 1, and 42cc would be 12.9 to 1. (Stock KX500) Compression ratios don't change as drastic for every cc when you get to the big motors.
2cc difference on a 125 can change 2 whole points.
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How can they tell you all that and not tell you the head CC?
I have been bit by head CC before...
wanted 40CC.. ran bike, was down on power from where I thoguht it should be.. ended up being at 46cc..
Yea.. thats only like.. A TON OF COMPRESSION POINTS differance...
when you get up in the Big bore motors.. it really matters..
40cc to 42cc is the differance between 15:1 and 13:1 (once again going off my bad memory here)
40cc would be 13.5 to 1, and 42cc would be 12.9 to 1. (Stock KX500) Compression ratios don't change as drastic for every cc when you get to the big motors.
2cc difference on a 125 can change 2 whole points.
I ment CC changes alot when you go from 86mm bore to 90mm bore... changes comp ratio... alot...
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Piston Dome cc's guys sorry for any confusion. I asked for piston dome cc so I could use the calculator Motorrad posted & just figure it myself. It was the only spec I was short. Where the piston isnt a true flattop.
47cc head chamber is what I ended up with, for 550cc's of motor.
4-5 degree squish angle. .039 squish including the gasket
.000 deck using the .020 factory base gasket.
So Todd's initial quote is good
12.5:1 & 7.5:1 93-100 octane
The pump here only spits out 91 octane, not 93. I believe due to elevation. With 93-100, 93 is bottom of the spec & the 91 at the pump is probably not gonna cut it.
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Here are couple pics of assembly. I have a set of old school head porting stands that work pretty good to hold the case while its loaded. A pic of why I dont like the plastic case bearing on the clutch mainshaft & a pic of the pinned type that should be used. Also a shot on using a half sealed bearing on the sprocket side of the case to help keep the poo out, & oil in.
(http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj543/81cr450/DSCN2985.jpg)
(http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj543/81cr450/DSCN2981.jpg)
(http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj543/81cr450/DSCN2979.jpg)
(http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj543/81cr450/DSCN2978.jpg)
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The rings your piston comes with is kinda what your stuck with but this type is the best as it captures the alignment pins so the cant come out
(http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj543/81cr450/DSCN2997.jpg)
Also had to recess the powervalve access plate screws to clear the frame. The screws that hold the rear brake guide on the K5 worked perfect
(http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj543/81cr450/DSCN3003.jpg)
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Mommy :-o
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Man really blew me away today. Takes a bit to process. Its together, first ride today. I wanna say it's to much, definetly not a track bike. Just "snappy" bap shift bap shift then you hit 3rd & it starts pulling & will really wind up but its so quick 4th's gone you hit 5th & ready to shift into 6th, if you have the room. No 6th wtf, your looking around at this point & just crapping cause you gotta slow down for a turn with out enough room. Geared at 15 / 47 & will take more. The pipe is sposed to be topend but this thing just kills it in bottom end. 1st is useless second can work but your powervalves aint even on yet , 3rd's the hook. d**n.... a well built 550 is useless on the track, it just revs too quick scared of looping ,even rolling on. Who ever figured this as a topend pipe, I thought I might have a dog down low. I rode for 30 minutes on tight slow just amazed @ the hit, then went to my fire road & realized I was only using half of what it has. Sounds weird too, in a good way, the exhaust is REALLY working with the set up. You can use that bottom end & never hear the silencer but when the wave overcomes the pipe you hear the silencer kick in just as the powervalves open . The hottest big bore 2 stroke I've ridden to date. Temps were excellent I could touch the lower second side radiator , so I still have leaning to do.
2 Negatives, vf3's, the flutter aint working to potential up top. Thanks Dave for the direction on this, less petal & bitch for vf2's. The white plastic is the second, I rode it to work at lunch d**n near ate crap unprotected on the pavement rolled on in second around a corner & it said RESPECT. So I've been working on diesel motors at work & the black oil that had transfered to my pant transfered to the plastic & looks like dump already. 1 ride uggghh , but mostly schwing. I'll fill in the radiator fitting & kicker when I get off of this in a bit. Time to ride.
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Man really blew me away today. Takes a bit to process. Its together, first ride today. I wanna say it's to much, definetly not a track bike. Just "snappy" bap shift bap shift then you hit 3rd & it starts pulling & will really wind up but its so quick 4th's gone you hit 5th & ready to shift into 6th, if you have the room. No 6th wtf, your looking around at this point & just crapping cause you gotta slow down for a turn with out enough room. Geared at 15 / 47 & will take more. The pipe is sposed to be topend but this thing just kills it in bottom end. 1st is useless second can work but your powervalves aint even on yet , 3rd's the hook. d**n.... a well built 550 is useless on the track, it just revs too quick scared of looping ,even rolling on. Who ever figured this as a topend pipe, I thought I might have a dog down low. I rode for 30 minutes on tight slow just amazed @ the hit, then went to my fire road & realized I was only using half of what it has. Sounds weird too, in a good way, the exhaust is REALLY working with the set up. You can use that bottom end & never hear the silencer but when the wave overcomes the pipe you hear the silencer kick in just as the powervalves open . The hottest big bore 2 stroke I've ridden to date. Temps were excellent I could touch the lower second side radiator , so I still have leaning to do.
2 Negatives, vf3's, the flutter aint working to potential up top. Thanks Dave for the direction on this, less petal & bitch for vf2's. The white plastic is the second, I rode it to work at lunch d**n near ate crap unprotected on the pavement rolled on in second around a corner & it said RESPECT. So I've been working on diesel motors at work & the black oil that had transfered to my pant transfered to the plastic & looks like dump already. 1 ride uggghh , but mostly schwing. I'll fill in the radiator fitting & kicker when I get off of this in a bit. Time to ride.
Did you degree the motor? what port timings are you running? (if you dont want it spread all over the net... Pm em to me.. Id appriciate it)..
Glad to hear its working awesome!.
whats your jetting?
No matter what you do to those V3's... they SUCK ASS..
I was amazed how tight the piston is down in the case.. Definatly couldnt go to 91mm without boring out the cases...
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Anybody know of a cheap/easy temp guage. The jetting on this is got me wanting to go leaner than I'm comfortable with so I'm thinking that I better get a temp reading to be sure. I usually just run what the book calls for for my elevation & like it but this is loading up on the pilot & I'm one size smaller pilot than usual with the air screw out all the way. If someone felt like explaining the reasoning behind big bores like leaner jetting I'm all ears. Thanks for the help in advance
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Trail Tech!!!
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Anybody know of a cheap/easy temp guage. The jetting on this is got me wanting to go leaner than I'm comfortable with so I'm thinking that I better get a temp reading to be sure. I usually just run what the book calls for for my elevation & like it but this is loading up on the pilot & I'm one size smaller pilot than usual with the air screw out all the way. If someone felt like explaining the reasoning behind big bores like leaner jetting I'm all ears. Thanks for the help in advance
Most Big Bores are just that.....Bigger Bores, with no other changes which will increase the vacuum signal (suction) on the carburetor. So using the same carb the motor can & will suck more fuel thru the same size jet, thus making the bike run richer & leads to "Big Bores liking leaner jetting".
I hope this simplified explanation answers your question.
DoldGuy
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Thanks Guys, jsut nervous dont wanna cook the thing. Appreciate the input. DoldGuy simplified really helps with me :-D
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Anybody know of a cheap/easy temp guage.
Here ya go! http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/44/-/203/987/-/16219/Factory-Effex-Temperature-Stickers (http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/44/-/203/987/-/16219/Factory-Effex-Temperature-Stickers)
(http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/images/prod/400/f/fac_07_tem_sti.jpg)
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Thats more along the lines of the kind of " cheap " I was thinking. I even looked at some of the little light RC car temp testers thinking if I could hook the loop around the plug it'd read. Thanks for that
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Here are couple pics of assembly. I have a set of old school head porting stands that work pretty good to hold the case while its loaded. A pic of why I dont like the plastic case bearing on the clutch mainshaft & a pic of the pinned type that should be used. Also a shot on using a half sealed bearing on the sprocket side of the case to help keep the poo out, & oil in.
Could i get a part# on that half sealed bearing?. I like that idea
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It seems to be working good I have about 6 hours on it now & still sealed up great. I was a little worried it might let oil past then build up enough to push the factory seal out, so far so good though. This list I stole from Motorrad so credit goes to him. I just added an s to the part # to get a sealed bearing then popped the seal from one side. The one you want would be 6305s.
Thanks again Dave for posting up this info on your build it saved me some $ in my build.
An additional note on bearings though , get a quality bearing , the factory Japan stuff is all good, excepting plastic cages, so if you do interchange make sure your not sacrificing quality. FAG :evil: brand bearings are German made , my preference , Theres a brand out of Austria that evades me at the moment thats good too. China & Taiwan junk.
Main bearings.
(NSK) 6306 ( Not sure what OEM rating is, but I run C3 rated) X2
KIPS bearings
(NSK) 608 (Stock is a C2 rating, I run C3) X2
Water Pump
(NSK) 608 (Stock is a C2 rating, I run C3) X2
Clutch Pressure plate
(NSK) 6001 (Stock is a C2, I run C3) X1
Shift Drum bearing
(NSK) 6905 (stock is a C2 I run a C3) X1
Transmission LEFT CASE
(NSK) 6305 (I run a C3, OEM is C2) (replaces OEM part number 92045-1011) X1
(OEM) This is the bearing My bearing house cant get.. so OEM it is 92045-0013 X1
Transmission RIGHT CASE
(NTN) 63/22 (I run a C3, OEM is C2) (Replaces OEM part number 92045-1134) X1
(special note on this bearing... ALOT of the ones out there now have a Plastic cage... Request a metal one, and CHECK IT before you leave
I Just dont trust plastic cages in transmissions....)
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I've been jetting for days. Between the big bore pulling more fuel & the 50/50 avgas pump blend it's been a challenge. I'm running a Mikuni TMX bored to 39.8 mm so this might not help most people. What I've come up with so far is that I believe the avgas has a different weight , lighter, so it pulls through the pilot alot easier as well. I'm 4 sizes down on the pilot from what I should be on a stock motor, the main is still right where I'm used to it though. It isnt really building heat though, I'm thinking I'll need to drop the plug to a br7es too.
Is avgas that different?
Runs real strong though. It suprised me on how far off the jetting can be & still run decent, as long as you keep it blown out. I started with 390 main 35 pilot to be safe I'm now at a 360 main & a 25 pilot Havent messed with the needle at all , 2nd position. I think the mid being right has helped with the other 2 being off.
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.............I'm thinking I'll need to drop the plug to a br7es too.
Is avgas that different?
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AvGas has lead in it, and of course a higher octane. Lead is a lubricator for the HOT exhaust valves, but Hippies don't like it. Some places are different (95-105), but the average octane is close to 100.
I run a BR7xx plug, too. But it is at partial throttle, trail riding. If I were WOT more, it'd be too hot of a plug. Works great at 4500-6500 ft.
-Rhyno
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I should have included the elevation 5000 -10000 ft , its pretty mountainous here. If I set the main down at 5000 then ride up to 10000 I'll get the feedback on if it's too rich or not. If I get it to where its on the edge of rideable up top its about perfect in the lower stuff. It is the low range thats loading up a bit, when youre in rock hell & cant wind it out . If I can get stay in the wide open stuff & keep it blown out it's great. Just a time consuming process dialing it in.
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Dredging up an old post! Any way you could re upload the pics to this thread or email directly? I'm about to embark on your same journey (2004 cr250 frame kx500 motor) after all the broken frame posts I like that you can do this without cutting the y out of the frame!