KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX250 / KX125 => Topic started by: 1989kawasaki on May 29, 2011, 12:25:30 PM
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Hey guys , ive been having a problem with my front brakes today, when i squeeze the brake lever down it takes too long for the bike too slow down, i strongly believe it is the pads but they have lots left but they are quite old, maybe that is the problem?
oh yeah the brake is bled just fine with a rock hard lever pull feel
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Hi kxriders , ive been having a problem with my front brake today, when i squeeze the brake lever down it takes too long for the bike too slow down, i strongly believe it is the pads but they have lots left but they are quite old, maybe that is the problem?
oh yeah the brake is bled just fine with a rock hard lever pull feel
How old is the fluid?
Wet in your area?
brake fluid is hygroscopic.... and water doesnt compress...
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freshly bled 2 weeks ago or so, only ridden twice.
it is wet in certain areas but not so much where i was riding.
if you want to see the problem it is at the end of this video below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlTpjm3mNvk
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Like Motorrad, the age of fluid will be an issue.
Supposing all the fluid in the master, line and caliper is new, I would take the caliper appart, clean the bore where the pistons ride I think you may find a edge of rust in there, you should also find contaminated fluid in the caliper which needs removed.
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Like Motorrad, the age of fluid will be an issue.
Supposing all the fluid in the master, line and caliper is new, I would take the caliper appart, clean the bore where the pistons ride I think you may find a edge of rust in there, you should also find contaminated fluid in the caliper which needs removed.
Was the fluid in the Bottle New... or had been opened before?
If you didnt have to Pop the Foil off the top.... get new fluid..
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the foil was removed before i changed the fluid.
should i rebuild the caliper and master? does that mean i have to buy new brake pistons? if so thats going to be a problem cause they are discontinued which is c-rap because they used them on 1994 models. well i guess ill have to look around for a set of NOS pistons . the back brake is the same so that will have to be rebuilt too
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Hey 89er,
It may be less expensive to replace the Whole Mary Ann with a newer model :|
Tuck\o/
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You do understand what I was trying to say about the foil right?
If the bottle of fluid has sat on the shelf for a while (doesn't take long, even here in California) and had been opened once before... It has water in it. It pulls it out of the atmosphere just Sittin on the shelf in the bottle..
I always buy a new bottle every time I bleed somthing... (the reason they make small bottles).
If I'm just repeating myself I'm sorry. But couldn't tell if you understood me from your response..
I have had many friends go through what you are because of 1 month old fluid off their chemical bench.. And drop all kinds of $$ rebuilding stuff...
Another thin that helps.. De-glaze the rotors. And pads..
Quick hit with a scotchbright pad on a angle grinder does wonders..
What part of the country you live in again?
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Hey 89er,
It may be less expensive to replace the Whole Mary Ann with a newer model :|
Tuck\o/
The only problem with trying to adapt a newer brake to this model is the spacing on the brake mounts is 78mm.
On the next brake improvements they used 61MM spacing and then 102MM spacing.
So, you would have to make an adapter to get anything else to fit, or replace the the forks....
Of course then, you would also have to replace the triple clamps, front axle, and front wheel.....
I have a bunch of this stuff recorded here for the K2.5
http://oem-cycle.com/KAWASAKIKX250BIKEID.aspx (http://oem-cycle.com/KAWASAKIKX250BIKEID.aspx)
If you can't find a re-build kit anywhere I would contact these guys:
http://www.procycle.us/ (http://www.procycle.us/)
Just a thought
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You do understand what I was trying to say about the foil right?
If the bottle of fluid has sat on the shelf for a while (doesn't take long, even here in California) and had been opened once before... It has water in it. It pulls it out of the atmosphere just Sittin on the shelf in the bottle..
I always buy a new bottle every time I bleed somthing... (the reason they make small bottles).
If I'm just repeating myself I'm sorry. But couldn't tell if you understood me from your response..
I have had many friends go through what you are because of 1 month old fluid off their chemical bench.. And drop all kinds of $$ rebuilding stuff...
Another thin that helps.. De-glaze the rotors. And pads..
Quick hit with a scotchbright pad on a angle grinder does wonders..
What part of the country you live in again?
yes i totally understood what you said - i was rushing to get out the door... i know that brake fluid draws moisture from the moment you open the bottle. i will soon buy a fresh bottle , new pads cause i need those any way and deglaze the rotor just like you said.
i live in toronto canada
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I gotcha '89er,
I also didn't know how difficult it was. (Thanks Blaster)
I was under the assumption a newer clamp,lever and master bolted right up and you just had to screw in the the line, (Braided stainless preferably! CR style) & bleed 'em..
I guess I had just been lucky with my brakes. Two fingers will lock up the front wheel...
I did put new pads on and like MoRad said scotchbright on the rotors and finish with alcohol spritz...I mean sprayed and wiped down the rotors and pads with plain old rubbing alcohol.
Tuck\o/
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thats alright tuck, i have a new set of front brake pads but i stored them improperly and there's some grease on them, are they still usable ? how would i get the grease off? and i will do the scotch brite pad and the alcohol on the rotor and ill see how that goes.
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I gotcha '89er,
I also didn't know how difficult it was. (Thanks Blaster)
I was under the assumption a newer clamp,lever and master bolted right up and you just had to screw in the the line, (Braided stainless preferably! CR style) & bleed 'em..
I guess I had just been lucky with my brakes. Two fingers will lock up the front wheel...
I did put new pads on and like MoRad said scotchbright on the rotors and finish with alcohol spritz...I mean sprayed and wiped down the rotors and pads with plain old rubbing alcohol.
Tuck\o/
You are right about the master cylinder.
I thought you were talking about the entire brake, caliper included.
I have ran into a couple of dirt bikes with a master cylinder from a street bike.
Talk about a light pull.....
Looks a bit dorky but hey, you could put a mirror on it :-)
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89er,
A can of brake parts cleaner should blast off any oil or grease, but glasses and gloves are a must.
(The Chlorinated stuff is best but it is bad for you!)
Then after the pads are mounted & bled finish with the alcohol.
I reckon there plenty of other things you could use to clean the pads and rotors with, but this works for me.
Save an old windex bottle or the like to pour the alcohol in
(it's easier to spray, instead of wetting paper towels or rags etc )
The last thing I do before I put the bike away after cleaning is Spray and wipe the rotors also.
The soap from washing, lubing the chain, wax, etc, will build up and add to the glazing.
It sounds like a pain in the butt, but after a few times it takes probably 15 seconds or so per side of wheel.
Just another part of the Routine. :-D
Tuck\o/
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89er,
A can of brake parts cleaner should blast off any oil or grease, but glasses and gloves are a must.
(The Chlorinated stuff is best but it is bad for you!)
Then after the pads are mounted & bled finish with the alcohol.
I reckon there plenty of other things you could use to clean the pads and rotors with, but this works for me.
Save an old windex bottle or the like to pour the alcohol in
(it's easier to spray, instead of wetting paper towels or rags etc )
The last thing I do before I put the bike away after cleaning is Spray and wipe the rotors also.
The soap from washing, lubing the chain, wax, etc, will build up and add to the glazing.
It sounds like a pain in the butt, but after a few times it takes probably 15 seconds or so per side of wheel.
Just another part of the Routine. :-D
Tuck\o/
thanks tuck! i will do that when i get my bike back to my house (its at my buddy's house) and wash it all up spotless .
i could be out there for a good 15 mins just spraying the bike cause i dont like having a bike covered with dirt and mud in my garage. i was riding today and when i was blasting down a trail ,i go for the front brake and it takes a good 50 feet to slow down to make the corner (well maybe not 50 ft , it feels like it)
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Brake cleaner...
then afer that..
Surface them on some sand paper (150 200 grit should do the trick)
(Put paper on flat surface (bench, garage floor etc), rub pad on paper)
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Dude, i didn't see anything in the thread about your disc! Does it have a lip on it? Run your finger and thumb from the mounts to the edge of the disc. If it feels fatter toward the edge of the disc then that's your issue. Was with mine, disc was shot!
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just to wake this thread back up.....
yes the rotor has a lip on the end and it feels very thin in the middle. so i am going to have to order a new rotor soon.
i found a new one on ebay for $40.
when i was at the track on saturday... when i pull the lever when the bike is stopped it feels O.K , and when on the track , i pull the lever it goes right to the grip and the lever pulsates and the brakes actually feel quite dangerous. why does the lever pulsate? is it because of the rotor?
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Bent/Warped rotor causes the pulsating. When you put on your new rotor/disc install new pads too (some HH+ pads) & bleed the brakes Very Good. You will be able to do a 2 finger stoppie.
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Bent/Warped rotor causes the pulsating. When you put on your new rotor/disc install new pads too (some HH+ pads) & bleed the brakes Very Good. You will be able to do a 2 finger stoppie.
the pads are brand new, just used for the day on saturday,, are they still usable?
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just took the front wheel off.. removed 2 rotor bolts ok but the other 2 are rounded out. any ideas on how to get them out?
the front wheel is going to be off until i get : a new rotor, wheel bearings, and have it spoked.
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Rotor bolts are typically held in with thread locker.
Most of the time you need to heat the bolt enough to burn out the thread locker or get it to release.
If it is an Allen Head you will probably have to drill them down the middle and use a Easyout.
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what if i used a dremel to cut a slot in the head of the bolt to fit a flat head screw driver in it? or not?
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oh and by the way , a new TUSK rotor will cost $90 shipped, and they have perfect reviews to them "better then oem"
"improved braking power" ...... so i will definatley go with the tusk.
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The Dremel is a good option if you have a steady hand but you better heat the bolts up before you turn them....
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Here's another option! http://store.edelbrock.com/kawasaki.aspx
Tuck\o/
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it doesnt say its for an 89..
here is the tusk
http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/productDetail.do?navType=type&vehicleId=433&webTypeId=30&navTitle=Brakes&webCatId=15&stockId=46034&prodFamilyId=3135
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a trick i used before , drill small hole in bolt in centre just enough to tap in an allen key nice and tight not too tight or you risk breaking a piece of hub off but just enough to bite ( not too big an allen key or risk jamming more ) ,heat outside hub around bolt area avoiding too much heat towards bearing seals etc
a solution similar to red locktite is used on the bolts , its melts under heat make sure you heat first then simply unsrew with the allen key dont leave too long or the bolt will expand with the hub .
are you using the correct dot brake fluid , is the brake hose old and expanding are the banjo bolts tight??
i did an enduro once ,had a stone come up and hit the banjo bolt just enough to loosen , lost the front brake totaly when i checked all it was , was a very slightly loose banjo!!
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a trick i used before , drill small hole in bolt in centre just enough to tap in an allen key nice and tight not too tight or you risk breaking a piece of hub off but just enough to bite ( not too big an allen key or risk jamming more ) ,heat outside hub around bolt area avoiding too much heat towards bearing seals etc
a solution similar to red locktite is used on the bolts , its melts under heat make sure you heat first then simply unsrew with the allen key dont leave too long or the bolt will expand with the hub .
are you using the correct dot brake fluid , is the brake hose old and expanding are the banjo bolts tight??
i did an enduro once ,had a stone come up and hit the banjo bolt just enough to loosen , lost the front brake totaly when i checked all it was , was a very slightly loose banjo!!
ill just cut slots into the heads of the bolts with a dremel so i can fit a flat head screwdriver in the slot.
(i dont want to risk braking a piece off the hub)
yes i am using the right DOT 4 fluid . but the bottle had been opened before, but i will have a fresh new bottle of brake fluid when i get the new rotor.
yes the brake hose is old ,, but how do i know if it is expanding?
and the banjo bolts are tight. but i will double check later.
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if the brake hose is a genuine part from 1989 poss is mullered , if you checked all else , seals in master cylinder ok ,if fluid is not passing out past the pistons , prob hose!! try hel performance hoses , got them on my buell good quality! i take it you have flushed right through with new fluid , bleed nipple seat ok? not been overtightened? i would clean banjo areas and caliper with brake cleaner when dry , pump the brakes a few times check areas with dry tissue to see any weeps?? hope this helps
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if the brake hose is a genuine part from 1989 poss is mullered , if you checked all else , seals in master cylinder ok ,if fluid is not passing out past the pistons , prob hose!! try hel performance hoses , got them on my buell good quality! i take it you have flushed right through with new fluid , bleed nipple seat ok? not been overtightened? i would clean banjo areas and caliper with brake cleaner when dry , pump the brakes a few times check areas with dry tissue to see any weeps?? hope this helps
there are no leaks in the system at all..
but if i do need a hose , there is a hydraulic hose place litterally 1 min away from the kawi dealer and they say i can have a custom stainless line made for around $40
now about cleaning... when i get all the stuff in , should i take the pistons out of the caliper and give them a good clean?
or not?
bleed nipple is A O.K
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finally got the stubborn bolts out . and i can tell ya it was a BI*** to do it.
i had to use the dremel to cut a slot in the head for a flat blade screwdriver , so do that and the slots round out cause it was really tight, so i had to hold the screw driver at an angle and hit it with a hammer a bunch of times then it loosened .
and the bolt had RED locktite on it.
so im glad it came out . so putting on the new rotor will be a breeze... :-D
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you can see now why its best to heat and melt the locktite and why i used a drill etc, snap on do a brilliant stud extractor kit ,you drill it (supplied in kit) tap in a spline and then a special nut gos on the spline and just undo it!!! unfortunatley i lost the kit!!! i wouldnt remove the pistons unless you have to technicly its a sealed system so shouldnt have much if any cack in there i would just flush through with lots of clean new fliud and try!!.... not on a fast corner just incase its still not up to much!!
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so i should only clean the part of the pistons that are sticking out? without removing them
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yep i recon so just make sure with new pads the pistons will be in further so make sure theres no cack on the outside , id claen off with brake cleaner and blow off with an airline
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yep i recon so just make sure with new pads the pistons will be in further so make sure theres no cack on the outside , id claen off with brake cleaner and blow off with an airline
ok i will do that , my brake disc was shipped today (and a bunch of other stuff)
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I second that emotion, and don't forget to try an alcohol spritzer!
if they start to feel like they are losing their Bite!
Tuck\o/
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just an update: i got my tusk brake disk in among a few other things, and after just feeling the disk i can tell its a solid well made piece, i hope its the same when its on the bike.
now i have ordered some spoke nipples at the dealer and it should be here wednesday or thursday, so the front wheel will be re assembled when i get those
and i also bought a new bottle of dot 4 brake fluid
i took a couple of pictures
(http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m537/cat123456789101/test/IMG_0108.jpg)
side view
(http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m537/cat123456789101/test/IMG_0109.jpg)
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been a while since i posted in this topic...
well the brakes are still kinda whack, gets scary into the corners
do you think it could be a bad front master? is it true that a honda master would be alot stronger?
if so which year and model of master to get?
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on my buell i run twin front discs with twin billet 6 calipers ( 12 pistons ) i changed my standard one to the largest front master cylinder you can get from a sports moto guzzi just to get the billets to work correctly.
i would however rather than spent $$$ check out the simple things like hose ,if the lever is adjustable getting max leveridge by adjustment , is the disc run in properly , are the pads standard kawasaki ( bullet proof reliable) seal kit for master cylinder????
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to be honest the tusk disc looked a bit "cheap" never heard of tusk perhaps its big in the states ? i would have gone for a well known replacement myself , ive got an oversize on the front of mine and its not much better than standard so dont waste your money there!! sorry to slate the tusk just looks like a cheap blank ( bit like cheap diamond blades)
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on my buell i run twin front discs with twin billet 6 calipers ( 12 pistons ) i changed my standard one to the largest front master cylinder you can get from a sports moto guzzi just to get the billets to work correctly.
i would however rather than spent $$$ check out the simple things like hose ,if the lever is adjustable getting max leveridge by adjustment , is the disc run in properly , are the pads standard kawasaki ( bullet proof reliable) seal kit for master cylinder????
no the pads are not OEM . they are some other brand that i cant remember which.
so on ebay there is a set of oem pads for $41 and probably $13 shipping. probably $40 for a master rebuild from kawasaki
and the little screw that is built into the lever is all the way in so its always contacting the piston.
its a magura lever if that matters...
to be honest the tusk disc looked a bit "cheap" never heard of tusk perhaps its big in the states ? i would have gone for a well known replacement myself , ive got an oversize on the front of mine and its not much better than standard so dont waste your money there!! sorry to slate the tusk just looks like a cheap blank ( bit like cheap diamond blades)
the tusk has many many great positive reviews on their site
http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/productDetail.do?navType=type&vehicleId=433&navTitle=Brakes&webTypeId=30&webCatId=15&prodFamilyId=3135
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to be honest at this stage i dont think any disk will work wonders ,if it was me i would plumb for a hel brake hose, i wish you were in the uk i would have a look at it for you .
when you pull the lever in just standing still does it go to the bars?? not wishing to offend at all but do you know how to bleed the brakes properly ?? sorry if thats a stupid question !
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to be honest at this stage i dont think any disk will work wonders ,if it was me i would plumb for a hel brake hose, i wish you were in the uk i would have a look at it for you .
when you pull the lever in just standing still does it go to the bars?? not wishing to offend at all but do you know how to bleed the brakes properly ?? sorry if thats a stupid question !
the lever feel is good and no longer goes to the bars.
i am not experienced with bleeding brakes, i think i may of done a somwhat good job this time.. i wonder if it would be worth it to take the bike to the dealer and tell them to sort it out for me :?
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should be a sintch to do yourself, basicly make sure the resivoir is full and does not run out during bleeding ( keep an eye on ) poss even fill up twice or three times .
hose on bleed nipple ,loosen nipple squeeze lever , with still held in do up nipple ( nip up or you will muller it )release lever. repeat process until all cakky fluid has nun through and air bubbles! keep an eye on that resevior you will need to keep toping up or will have to do all over again.
finaly do up tight , do go mad though.
the lever now should be rock solid no where near the bars although saying that if you have strong forearms its still possible to touch the bars , have a visual chech of the hose when you pull the lever if at any point there is a noticable swelling thats your problem.
hope this has helped and not trying to teach you how to suck eggs as it were
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should i buy the NOS set of front caliper pistons?
i need a quick reply cause they aint going to be on ebay forever