KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: Rick on June 04, 2004, 04:53:11 AM
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Well, after months of thinking, drawing, and designing, I have finally built a kickstand for my KX500. Instead of adding the pictures to this post, I added to my album in the Gallery. Also, I did not have any green paint left in the can, so just painted silver for now. It helps be able to see the mount a little better in pictures, so worked out just fine.
Thoughts:
- One of my concerns has always been that the main spring would come off and allow the kickstand to drop down. As you might expect, this could get pretty ugly. To address this, I incorporated a simply spring loaded push button and small bracket. I think you can see how it works in the pictures. KTM resolved this by using a rubber loop. I may try to incorporate this system later, but like the strength and security that the metal system provides.
- I wanted the kickstand to go up along the subframe when in the up position just like the Pro Moto Billet systems. This was a tough challenge to bend the kickstand to follow the frame and still be able to hold up the bike.
- I did not want to push my footpeg out by adding a bracket behind the bolt on mount, so wanted a weld on system instead. I sheared several various size pieces of steel, and just used the one that required the least amount of modification. The stop on my kickstand is a 1/4-20 allen head bolt. I think you can see how the head of the bolt hits the pocket and stops.
- I do not like how low most kickstands mounts hang on the frame, so wanted one that was high enough to ensure it would never touch the ground, even when the suspension was bottomed.
I tested the kickstand this past weekend, riding just under 200 miles, and never had a problem. We were also in the snow, so had several chances to try out how well it worked on several surfaces. My son Ben wasn't so sure about the addition of a kickstand, but after having to lay his bike on the ground several times this past weekend, wants one on his new bike.
If anyone has any questions on the specifics of the build, let me know. this kickstand can be made with a drill, a vise, and a grinder, so is easily replicated.
Rick
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Sounds great Rick. I would like the specifics and since I have all those tools but no welder :( I should be able to follow your specs. I went with a clamp on one and im not really happy with it. Did you look at the MSR universal aluminum one at all? I cant find much information on it so I have been contemplating building one.
Thanks
Titus
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A kick stand may not look cool,but it sure is nice to have on a ride,good job Rick.
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O probably looked at the MSR unit over the last 8 months during the design phase, but don't really remember the web site. I must not have been impressed, as I didn't bother to print any pictures. Also, the unit I built could be put on a mount behind the foot peg, so frame welding would not be required. Also, the aluminum stand only had two straight easy bends, so nothing fancy.
Take a look at the pictures as they provide a pretty good pattern. Let me know if you need any specific information that would help in your construction.
My favorite part of this kickstand is that it is hidden behind my number plate.
Good Luck.
Rick
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Rick,
Drill, vise, grinder! Ive got those......and I sure need a kickstand. I looked for the pics but couldn't find them. Cam
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(http://www.pitbull-racing.com/albums/Rick/P1010004.sized.jpg)
Kickstand frame bracket side view
(http://www.pitbull-racing.com/albums/Rick/P1010005.sized.jpg)
Kickstand frame bracket view from back. Notice that the bracket is welded to the frame at an angle
(http://www.pitbull-racing.com/albums/Rick/P1010006.sized.jpg)
Rear view of kickstand installed. Notice that the kickstand is in line with the subframe
(http://www.pitbull-racing.com/albums/Rick/P1010007.sized.jpg)
Side view of kickstand installed. The kickstand follows the subframe, and tucks nicely under behind the number plate. The spring loaded button just below the number plate is depressed to allow the kickstand to drop down. If the main kickstand spring is broken of comes off during a ride, this spring loaded button keeps the kickstand from falling down and putting me on my head. A side benefit to this picture is you are able to see how I widened by footpegs, as well as the passenger footpeg mounts on the subframe.
(http://www.pitbull-racing.com/albums/Rick/P1010008.sized.jpg)
side view of kickstand in the down position
(http://www.pitbull-racing.com/albums/Rick/P1010009.sized.jpg)
Rear view of kickstand in the down position
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Rick/Paul,
Thanks. Very impressive. Cam.
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Great design Paul!!! Any chance at marketing it? :)
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Great design Paul!!! Any chance at marketing it? :)
Thats Rick's doings Dan, all I did was add the pics to the forum post. I'd like to see that kickstand available, I'd sure buy one.
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Ops! Guess, I shouldn't have speed read. Great design Rick!!!
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I could probably whip a bunch of these out in the shop with a little work if their were enough folks interested. I designed a weld on unit, as I think it provided the cleanest, most compact design, so you need a welder to attach. The hardest part is the special little safety catch button, as I'm not sure I could design this for all applicable years. However, for trail riders, I don't think this is really an necessity. KTM's have the rubber catch, but in talking with the KTM dealer, he said he has never sold the rubber catch, as folks don't use them.
If there is enough interest, let me know, and I'll price a stick of aluminum, the spring, bolts, and shipping in order to spit a few out. I am going to design the same unit for Ben's new KX, so will have one for a 250 and 125 by then end of summer.
And all I really wanted was compact kickstand for my own use....
Rick
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Count me in.
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Im in for 1
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Looks like I have some parts to search and price, as well as a few jigs to put together. Might as well make this an easy manufacturing process and try and get something out for other bikes. My initial thought is that I should be able to make these including shipping in the US for around $50 bucks. Maybe less if the metal market settles down.
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sounds great. I will just need to find a welder anybody know one in the san diego area?
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I'd be interested in one if the price is around $50. Thanks for sharing a great idea. Tracy
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Just take your bike to a muffler shop. They'll weld that right on for you for about an hour's labor. By the way, I observed some guys jumping trailer ramps out in Beaumont a few weeks back and I noticed, from time to time, they would stop their two strokes next to the ramp to make adjustments. They would turn off the petcock and simply lay the bike down on the sprocket side of the bike with the handlebar in the dirt to keep most of the bike out of the dirt. I tried it a few times with my KX-500 and had no problem. Turned the gas back on and started right up in one kick. Anyone see any problems with this ?
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Nope...unless you riding the last part of a 100 mile mountain ride...and your old...and your tire...and you hope no one laughs when you ask for help getting your bike of the ground. :blink:
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I want to know who made the one in the gallery thats justa bolt on solution. Looks real beefy.
I made one from a old kickstand cut from a salvage bike that looks ugly and is real wimpy. I need to reweld the peg for the spring coz its not really strong enuf to hold the kick up real tight like i want.
and if you try to stand on the bike
with the kick down and try to tip it over it will bend it if you really want it to.
I uploaded some pics to the gallery and some pics with the mcmaster carr pipe mount.
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I built a variation of Ricks excellent design out of scraps in my shop. Given the 3 mounting holes right there I couldn't resist making it a bolt on (for my new KX?). I also didn't like spacing the footpeg out 1/4" so I fabricated the plate with an integral footpeg mount (mine was bent anyway). Mounting plate is 1/4" 316SS. The kickstand is 3 piece aluminum; pivot, 3/4" pipe for the main part, an oversize foot and a cool 1/2" titanium pivot bolt. The pivot bolt could be smaller but I had the leftover bolt in my desk at work. Total weight added is 570g (1.25 lbs). I have a bunch of pictures and fab details if anyone is interrested. Cam.
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Nice job!
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Yup, looks cool. Great fab work.
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You where asking if any one was interested in more info,well I am,and Im sure the rest of us are so can you give us "the how to".Between your and Ricks we can get some good kick stand ideas,thanks.
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Here are some details for this kickstand. It was nice to have Rick's design to look at when I built mine. Hopefully someone will look at Rick's & mine and come up with another one. I have about 300 miles on it so far with no problems. The only weak point I have found (so far) is where I welded the pivot to the aluminum pipe. I used 3/8" aluminum for the pivot and it is OK but could be stronger. You can bend it if you try. I don't think I could lean my bike on it to lube the chain. If I was to build another, I think I would use the 1/2" aluminum flatbar that Rick used on his to simplify the fabrication. So far I haven't built built a safety catch since there is no movement and the sidepanel traps it enough so it can't fall down if the spring broke. My sidepanels curl in a bit so I have to fold it/unfold it by hand. The oversized foot is really nice. Happy building!. I will be happy to answer any questions. Cam.
Materials List:
mount plate - 4"x1/4" 316SS flatbar, 7" long
kickstand - 3/4"x 16" thickwall aluminum pipe (I used 3/4" aluminum rigid electrical conduit)
kickstand foot - 1-1/2"x2-1/2"x 1/4" aluminum plate
kickstand pivot - 2"x3"x1/2" aluminum plate ( I used 3/8" which is not quite tough enough)
piovot stop - 6mm allen bolt
pivot bolt - 1/2" x 1" titanium or other with nut on the back(I shaved the head to clear the spring)
spring - KTM or other
top spring mount- 1-1/2"x1/4" SS bolt
Base Plate:
It is best to start with a cardboard template (template.jpg). Cut the
rough carboard shape, cut out each mounting hole in turn and install the bolt so that they all line up nicely.
A good way to mark the holes is to tap the cardboard lightly
(over the hole) with the rounded end of a ball peen hammer so it marks a round crease
on the inside of the template. With the template bolted on the bike, mark the outline of the frame
on the back side of the template. Mark the final cut line, parallel to the frame outline, giving a further 1/4"clearance from the frame. Mark the pivot hole center and trim the outline of the template to it's final shape.
Transcribe the template onto the 4" flatbar and cut the rough outline. Drill the three mounting holes and test fit. Some hole filing may be required. When the plate mounts nicely, do the final outline shaping with a file (kpcutside.jpg). Cut the bend line and bend approx 15 degrees (kpcutprofie.jpg).
Footpeg mounts:
Cut 2ea 1-1/4"x1" pieces (pegbracket.jpg). Sandwich them together and drill a 3/8" footpeg pivot hole.
The final hole size (larger) is drilled after welding to align the holes. Bolting the the 2 plates together while shaping them helps to make them identical.
Kickstand:
The pivot inserts into the 3/4" pipe. The pivot hole is threaded and a 1/2" nut on the back locks the pivot bolt.
It is best to mock up the kickstand a few times before any welding. I must have done this 20 times or more. To get the foot/floor angle right, with the pivot inserted into the pipe and all bends done, stand the bike on it. Using the thickness of the kickstand foot, mark the floor angle all the way around the pipe and cut the pipe. I cut my pipe 2 or 3 times before I was happy with the resting angle of the bike. I used the triangle stand as a
guide for bike position. (ksfoot.jpg, ks_pivot_side.jpg pivot.jpg kickstand_end.jpg)
Welding:
Welding stainless steel is easier than mild steel. Buy special SS rod and use 20% less heat. The flux coating pops off by itself when it cools (Wear glasses). Weld the bend, filling in the largest gap with small ss scrap. Bolt the 2 finished footpeg mount plates to the footpeg pivot using a 3/8" bolt, position on the base plate and mark (use the stock mount to eyeball the angle). Tack weld the upper plate in position. Remove the footpeg and 2nd plate and final weld the 1st plate, after checking that the angle is correct. Reattach the footpeg and 2nd plate and tack weld the 2nd plate into place. Remove footpeg and final weld. You may have to do some grinding so the footpeg rotates smoothly. Either grinding or some weld under the footpeg stop will adjust the final peg angle (ksside.jpg).
Polishing:
A strip of scotchbrite pad in a drill or minigrinder works great. For a tool, cut the head and threads off a long (6") 1/4" bolt then hacksaw a 1" slot lengthwise in the shaft. Put long strips of scotchbrite in the slot, and wind them in the direction of grinder rotation and polish away. Best to do it outside as it is a bit messy.
Spring:
I used an old 1979 RM400 kickstand spring I had been saving (for this?). A new longer KTM spring would be better (longer) then you could also measure the proper extended length as used on a bike. Drill & tap the top mount hole at the 1/2 way mark in the kickstand travel arc. Cut the bolt off flush with the backside and tack weld in place on the front. The bottom spring mount is just a 1/8" hole in the pipe.
Hints:
1. use a drillpress for all holes
2. grind the final kickstand travel stops with the stand mounted on the bike (so you don't go too far like I did)
3. weld slowly and let it cool down lots so you don't warp the mount plate.
4. install the 6mm stop on the pivot AFTER making the mounting plate. It is much easier to drill the hole in the right spot rather than file the mount plate for hours (like me) to make it fit.
5. I was too lazy to find a metric bolt so I replaced the chain roller bolt with a 5/16" x 3-1/2" SS bolt trimmed to 3-3/16" and drilled out the frame hole slightly (mostly for alignment). A thin washer under the plate may be required for spacing.
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Wow,great how to!Thanks!
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Don't ya just love building stuff that works!! I have over 1000 miles with the new leg in place, and the only problem I have had is keeping the nut tight. I used a crimp style lock nut, but found I needed to add blue locktite. I've got a couple of hundred miles since the lock tight was added, and it seems to have worked.
As a note, I'm not real confortable using my kickstand to lube the chain, so just put it on a popup stand in the garage during cleaning. Since I use an O-ring chain, it doesn't require lubrication as often.
Can't wait to see other designs. For the catch, I switched to the little rubber KTM strap and 3/8" fine thread counter sunk bolt. I had to drill a small hole in the edge of the air box and insert the rubber strap from inside, but it is a much cleaner look and easier to put on and off. The taper on the bolt helps keep the rubber strap from coming off, so I can ride with confidence that the kickstand stays in place. The spring seems to be secure as well, but just can't trust it.
Happy building.
Rick
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After some testing I have found that I definately need to make some type of catch. The spring I used isn't quite strong enough (hey I thought 1980 was a good year for srpings). On a big bottom out my kickstand popped out of the sidepanel. I think the KTM spring and a catch is in order. Rick, can you post a pic of your latest catch with the KTM rubber strap. Thanks. Cam.
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I have added a picture of my rubber KTM catch in the gallary. I drilled a hole in the edge of my air box, and had to modify the square end of the KTM rubber catch to get it to sit right (once you see one you will know what I mean). The catch is very clean looking and easy to use.
Rick
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Rick,
Thanks fo the pic. I looks great, simple but secure. I think I will build one similar, just have to think a bit on how best to handle a round, hollow kickstand shaft. Cam.
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Help! I'm not able to find the pics.
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pretty old thread. There are aftermarket stands out there for sale that are pretty sweet.
Keep searching stands here.
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I have a stand that I took off my bike and do not use anymore. Make me an offer.
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Check out the Pro Moto Billet .com kickstands. I have one and love it. Only drawback is the price. It
fits perfect and operates perfect. looks like factory installation. Whatever tiny little bit it weighs the kx500 doesnt even notice. Sure is great when you are on the trails and want to take a little break. I have found that the trees are not placed where I need them, so the kickstand is a welcome addition.
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5dracing, do you have a picture? Is it a clamp on or bolt on? Swing arm or frame mount? Give me a shout at crewfor32@hotmail.com