KX Riders

Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: delphipro5 on February 09, 2011, 03:45:02 PM

Title: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on February 09, 2011, 03:45:02 PM
I just today got my windowed wiseco piston in From JFAB. Long awaited, but worth it! Nice looking piece. And it got me thinking about the engine build I am about to undertake. Which I have not been focusing on as of late because I have been working on the other odds and ends of the build. (reference: Monument to the 2-stroke - to see build). So I am now thinking of all that is to be done and it is A LOT. I am not too sure how much of this I am really going to be able to do myself. I want my crank balanced by someone who REALLY KNOWS THESE THINGS, and I want to replace all bearings and seals in the whole thing if possible, my rod checked to make sure It is useable, all other components checked for service limit (kips valves ect.,ect.) and replaced if necessary, want the kips bolt mod put in. the windowed piston came with rings that are NOT to be used with chrome plated cylinders, what type of plating is on these cylinders? Will I have to hone or deglaze this cylinder? Or drill lubrication holes on the side of this piston?? Jeez even the install instructions that came with the piston are too much for me! I NEED SOME DIRECTION!
Also, I need to find a good engine guy around my area that I can truly trust to handle doing all this for me, unfortunately, I have not yet found one though I really haven?t been looking too hard lately either. But I was hopeing to be able to do the final assembly of it myself, what type of assembly lube should you use and how do you keep from wrecking the whole thing the first time you try and start it? I would just hate to spend all this $$ on an engine rebuild and blow it up the first time out that?s all. :oops:
And what about the ignition? Should I be looking for a new aftermarket one or should I use the one I got? How do I know it?s good? I think I should get a new coil at least I?m sure they weaken over time right?

 
 To Do:
Engine: Complete engine rebuild
   Bottom end rebuild
   Crank balancing
   Weichman treatment(compression release)+ ?Basic: Mill, polish dome and recut squish band?
   Kips bolt mod.
   Barnett clutch kit
   Flywheel weight
   Reed spacer
   v-force2 reed kit
   CPW 39.5 PWK CARB.
   Wiesco piston-windowed
             new coil

Lemme know what ya?ll think
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: Motorrad on February 09, 2011, 04:09:32 PM
Why doubble base gasket and thick head gasket?   

Planning a zero deck motor?  Who is going to cut your cylinder?

Make sure you debur and taper the edges of the port window..  Mine came from Jerry sharp....


These rings are fine in nikasil.   Differant than chrome bore
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: kaw rider on February 09, 2011, 04:27:05 PM
I would check your ignition stator spec, 9 out of 10 are out of spec.

I would do a full rebuild on crankshaft.

Check your intake bridges for cracks

Check for worn crankcase main journal wear.

If you are going to stack base gasket you will lose exhaust port timing.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: Rd on February 10, 2011, 12:20:45 AM
Quote
I would check your ignition stator spec, 9 out of 10 are out of spec.

Kawrider
Other than resistance check and a visual inspection, is there another test for the integrity of the stator?
My stator ohmed out in specs and came from a running motor.
Thanks Roger
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: DoldGuy on February 10, 2011, 01:16:40 AM
Quote
I would check your ignition stator spec, 9 out of 10 are out of spec.

Kawrider
Other than resistance check and a visual inspection, is there another test for the integrity of the stator?
My stator ohmed out in specs and came from a running motor.
Thanks Roger

Roger,
If your Stator measures within Specs, yours is the One out of Ten.
DoldGuy
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: kaw rider on February 10, 2011, 02:55:33 AM
RD
What year is your bike and what spec did you use.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: sandblaster on February 10, 2011, 05:48:03 AM
Hey Kawrider
What are the specs for a 00 K5?
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: dave916 on February 10, 2011, 06:38:08 AM
 i think it should be standard or thin head gasket with two base gaskets
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: kaw rider on February 10, 2011, 08:04:36 AM
i think its around 170-230 ohms, doug knows the spec too. i can check tonight.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: DoldGuy on February 10, 2011, 09:34:14 AM
i think its around 170-230 ohms, doug knows the spec too. i can check tonight.

153-230 Ohms: Black/White to Black/Yellow
7.9-11.9 Ohms: White/Red to Black/Yellow

These specs are for the 1989 (with big flywheel) all the way up to the 2004. They have had a change in part #s, but the values are still the same on all. The Clymer book has these listings & confirmed the OEM Kawi manual does too.

RD, Very curious as to what your Stator measures as I have had measurements taken on ALOT of these & as Pauly stated 9 out of 10 were out of range. My 2001 stator visually looks almost new but it measures @ 330 Ohms  :-(

DoldGuy
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: alward25 on February 10, 2011, 11:09:47 AM
I have a 2001 stator that could be up for grabs that is in fantastic shape. Coil and CDI too. PM me if you are interested.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: sandblaster on February 10, 2011, 12:42:24 PM
Thanks DoldGuy.
I have recorded that info for future use  :lol:
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: Rd on February 10, 2011, 01:42:24 PM
Quote
RD, Very curious as to what your Stator measures as I have had measurements taken on ALOT of these & as Pauly stated 9 out of 10 were out of range. My 2001 stator visually looks almost new but it measures @ 330 Ohms

Stator came from a 1990 K5 just measured it a few minutes ago with a Fluke 77 DVM

Black White to Black Yellow  181 ohms

White Red to Black Yellow 9.5 ohms


Quote
RD
What year is your bike and what spec did you use.

1990. Used the same spec as Doldguy from the last page of the 1990/91 supplement to the K5 manual.

I finally got lucky . Usually everything  I take apart is out of spec or broken :-D


Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on February 12, 2011, 10:54:00 AM
Yup, I have not checked my stator yet but will very soon.
On the gasket thing, it's old info from something I read somewhere that goes like this ( ". I would then go to the optional thick head gasket. This will reduce the compression and again reduce the hit in the powerband. You could take it a step further and put in an extra base gasket, this will again reduce compression slightly and raise the port timing, it will again slow or smooth the transition of power and give you some top end over rev. Next, I would chuck the stock pipe and buy a FMF Gnarly pipe. Before installing the pipe there is a crush ring that goes up into the cylinder...buy four of them and install them with the pipe. This is one of the best mods you can make to the bike. You'll have stronger power but it will be smoother and more controllable than you would ever believe!" )  SO after thinking about it...... I think I will be useing the standard head gasket since I will be tuning the carb and head to run U4.4  I don't want to mess with lowering the compression any. But I do think I agree with the double base gasket. I WILL be useing the stock pipe, BUT does any one get what he is doing with the 4 crush ring thing?? should I do that? If any one wants to read the whole thing I still have it on file as- Detuning a KX500 for trails. let me know if you are interested in reading the rest of it.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: kaw rider on February 12, 2011, 11:04:12 AM
if you are trail riding stay with pump gas or a pump gas mix with some high octane. U4.4 will empty your pocket fast.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on February 12, 2011, 11:41:08 AM
It's a strange thing but I just f#*#ing hate pump gas!!! :x  But I don't want to run crazy compression ratios ethier. And with the amount this bike will get ridden in a year, I could be filling the tank with liquid gold and it wouldnt drain my pocket! I think 10 gal. would last the year! this thing is strictly my baby only on the blue moon weekend when I get free time!! But I am completly confused as to an alternitive fuel to pump gas, it's either drain the carb and tank every ride with the U4.4, or run crazy compressions for fuels I don't really need, or aviation fuel 100ll. I just wish a place like webber or sunoco could supply me with a 93-94 oct. GASOLINE with NO Ethanol in it!!!! DAMB IT!!! :x
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: kaw rider on February 12, 2011, 11:51:32 AM
The bad thing about the fuels now days kills the o-ring in these keihin carbs you can't get or buy.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on February 12, 2011, 12:17:30 PM
After more thought I am thinking maybe 100LL AV may be the answer. I can prob. get it locally and store and use it rather easily. I NEED to figure this out because I have my Carb. at Dick's racing and I NEED to specifiy which fuel I will be using so they can jet it accordingly. How would I go about telling them I plan on using AV fuel? will they be cool with that? Also I am sending my head to Larry Wiechman to have his Comp. Re. done and also the head work, so I will need to specify with him also the fuel used so he can machine it accordingly. Down to the wire now so I need to figure this out this week by Wed.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: meangreen on February 12, 2011, 12:54:48 PM
Keep us posted on what you decide on for fuel - I am in a similar mindset of "where do I get fuel".

Ben
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: Motorrad on February 12, 2011, 01:01:01 PM
I run 50/50 mix of premium pump and 100LL on my K5 and all my vintage stuff..  They all love it.  Vintage stuff pings on just pump, and 4 strokes on straight....    My vintage bikes with valves like it also (triumph norton BSA)
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: meangreen on February 12, 2011, 01:08:28 PM
Motorrad, Is that premium pump with Ethanol?  I assume so since that is the only thing most of us have access to.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: Rd on February 13, 2011, 02:45:49 AM
This may be a repost , but here is a good link to current avgas prices in the US.
http://www.airnav.com/fuel/local.html (http://www.airnav.com/fuel/local.html)

Motorad.
 What kind of oil and fuel seperation  issues have you expeirenced with 100ll?
Thanks
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on February 13, 2011, 11:27:29 AM
I tested my stator coils and - Blk/Wh-Blk/Yel= 318.4 Ohm , Re/Wh-Blk/Yel= 10.3 Ohm
The first is out of range by 88.4 ohms respectivley. And the second is on the high end of within range.
SO what is the fix for this? What can I or need I do about this?

 Also the flywheel looks a little rough, chk it out.

(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_0944_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_0947_1.jpg)

Here's the head and cylinder too.

(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_0933_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_0939_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_0937_1.jpg)

What do ya think look O.K.? this bolt looks a little nasty!

(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_0940_1.jpg)
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: 1989kawasaki on February 13, 2011, 11:29:28 AM
make sure you put anti - seize on those bolts!
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: sandblaster on February 13, 2011, 02:19:30 PM
There are some coils here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ELECTREX-LIGHTING-Stator-KAWASAKI-KX500-89-04-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem19baf96eb0QQitemZ110511091376QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ELECTREX-LIGHTING-Stator-KAWASAKI-KX500-89-04-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem19baf96eb0QQitemZ110511091376QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
And
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ELECTREX-Stator-Source-Coil-KAWASAKI-KX500-89-04-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem230be78769QQitemZ150523578217QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ELECTREX-Stator-Source-Coil-KAWASAKI-KX500-89-04-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem230be78769QQitemZ150523578217QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)

Or, PM kaw rider as he has a source to get them repaired to the correct specs.

From what I can see your cylinder looks ok but you should mic it to be certain.

I have seen a lot of fly wheels that looked like that but they worked fine.
Clean it up and it should be fine.

Clean the threads up and use a anti corrosive on them.

All is my humble opinion based on what I see.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on February 13, 2011, 02:33:40 PM
I guess it is time I go over what it is I am looking to get out of this engine build and see if it will all work together.
 I would like to rebuild this motor so that it will produce smooth tractable power that is even through the whole powerband. Someting for FAST trail riding open trails quick stuff, and still able to lug it through short sections of pine forest mud/root trail. I would also like to outfit it to drink something other than pump gas, BUT nothing that requires me to increase compression too far over stock ( C10).
I have some mods. that I would like to do, such as the windowed piston(seems to make sense, and actually lets the engine cool a bit better), Kips valve overturn fix(KIPS Bolt), steathy 14oz. flywheel weight(power smoothing ,luggability),Barnett steel clutch(dirt digger) A good crank rebuild/balancing, new bearings and seals all around, new v-force2 reeds and reed spacer, Carb. boreing mods and dial-a-jet from Dicks. I really like the look and idea of the Dicks mods and the dial-a-jet but am not too sure if it is what I want or, if it will work with everything else???? Am I being led astray by dirt bike mag. articles??
DECIDED TO GO WITH CPW'S 39.5 PWK CARB.- 02/28/11
The Compression release mod offered by Larry weichman( he will also do the dome polish) What else? hmm.. I will be using the stock pipe And then into a pro circuit silencer/sparky(woods legal).
I do not want to mess with the stock porting or bore of the cylinder, these I would like to keep stock.
Also need to right the wrong of an out of spec. stator coil in the ignition too.

So there we go, that is the intention for this motor.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on February 15, 2011, 04:25:10 PM
I talked to a local shop about all this and he had mentioned that tolerances with the wiseco piston are not as tight as the stock piston, and may cause some piston slap. he suggest going with the oem, but I just spent over $200 on a windowed wiseco from JFAB! Do you guys think piston slap will be a problem for me?? :?
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: sandblaster on February 15, 2011, 04:34:07 PM
Carefully mic your cylinder and your piston and let us know what they read.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: greencannon on February 17, 2011, 01:03:28 AM
wow, that flywheel looks rough..you can clean that up carefuly with a wire wheel and then a coat of car wax preserves and protects from further rust with no ill effects.

Junk that garbage plastic flywheel cover that warps and lets dirt and water in and replace with Boyeson aftermarket cover. no more erroding flywheel
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on February 17, 2011, 02:26:52 PM
Hey guys, I have been talking about this engine build with a local shop. And he didnt seem too concerned when I told him the stator was 88.4 ohms over spec. So I ask again, what does this really matter? :? What, if anything will it be doing wrong? And why should it be corrected? Is fixing this really worth spending $$ on? :?
Here are the readings I got from mine.
Blk/Wh-Blk/Yel= 318.4 Ohm , Re/Wh-Blk/Yel= 10.3 Ohm
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: kaw rider on February 17, 2011, 02:49:45 PM
I would think hard about who you have work on your K5 motor, Will it run with the stator the way it is, yes but you could be leaving some power on the table and possible problems down the road soon.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on February 27, 2011, 11:57:36 AM
Does anyone know of a way to Keep the clutch basket from grooveing so badly? what about the prox clutch basket, is that steel? Why does no one make an aftermarket steel basket for this bike? I would love to have a hinson basket in this thing OR just get it so I don't have to worry about grooveing. I don't even know the condition of my stock basket yet but I will soon. I am looking on ebay and I dont see much, any suggestions? I would like to get a nice new (or newish) basket for this bike build. any leads?  :|
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: kaw rider on February 27, 2011, 12:12:48 PM
there are the ones on ebay. You could buy a brand new oem basket. Or you could send me your grooved one and i can fix it.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on February 27, 2011, 12:22:08 PM
Hmmm..... Well, If I get the proX pro basket on ebay I would have to put the gears on it and stuff... I'm not too sure if mine is grooved, I will find out though. How would you fix a grooved basket? What about steel inserts or something? I cant' belive that kawa used a part that grooves so badly! WHY :?
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: kaw rider on February 27, 2011, 12:37:43 PM
most cast aluminum baskets will groove :-D   Check out talon baskets.

http://cgi.ebay.com/KX-500-1986-1998-Mitaka-Billet-Alloy-Clutch-Basket-/280632012174?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item4156f8ad8e
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: RoostDaddy on March 01, 2011, 11:47:50 AM
I've run a Hinson basket for a long time.  Pretty sure they are still available, great basket.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: PowerFiend on March 02, 2011, 04:34:16 AM
I've run a Hinson basket for a long time.  Pretty sure they are still available, great basket.

I have not been able to find one. They haven't been sold in a couple years.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: PowerFiend on March 02, 2011, 04:37:35 AM
...Carb. boreing mods and dial-a-jet from Dicks. I really like the look and idea of the Dicks mods and the dial-a-jet but am not too sure if it is what I want or, if it will work with everything else???? Am I being led astray by dirt bike mag. articles??
DECIDED TO GO WITH CPW'S 39.5 PWK CARB.- 02/28/11
.

Why did you decide not to go with Dick's mods? I know he specializes in the KTM 36mm carb taper bore to 39mm, but was myself wondering if he could do a 38mm to 40.5mm taper bore out of a PWK airstriker.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on March 02, 2011, 12:38:46 PM
I am wary on dick, he is tough to get a hold of and when you do it's a rushed convo. I think the mods. are a bit much anyway for my use. Not saying he does a bad job, just that now that he is all over bike Mags., he has got his hands full with work, and facetime, and riding, and racing,... busy guy! He's gonna call me mon. I will see about all of it then.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on March 09, 2011, 10:52:01 AM
Got in touch with Dick's racing today, he is currently working on the Carb. I sent him. He told me he should be finished up with it tomorrow. He is doing the taper bore on it and installing a dial-a-jet, and rejetting it to compensate. I hope he sets it up for C-10 fuel but i'm not sure. I will give it a try set up his way and see how it goes. In the near future I will buy the boysen rad valve setup also, and I will be able to do some testing between the C.P.W. 39.5mm PWK / Vforce2 reed setup, and the Dick's taper bore D-a-J stockie mod/ boysen RAD valve reed setup. And also the swap of that. I will be able to do a lot of swap out combos and see what works the best. That should be a good time! :wink: And Larry's got my head going good, I should be seeing that real soon. I just got a PM from him today and he said he's working on it. He's a great guy, I love how clean the work is! GOOD STUFF!
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on March 15, 2011, 10:36:56 AM
Well I brought my head and Kips bolt down to my engine builder and spoke with him about a few things....

First of all, the cylinder and piston were plated and matched by millenium... Now with the horror plate jobs I have read on this site, how do you guys rate millenium as far as plate work goes? I hear USChrome is an excellent company, I just wanted to hear from him who did mine, and it was millenium. Any input? :?

Also, I had told him my flywheel was a bit corroded :-D(A bit??) and with the added weight of the stealthy f.w. weight, and the increased power out of the engine, I have heard of these things tearing themselves apart. And he told me he cleaned it up and it looked good, only surface corrosion. Said it looks brand new?(I didn't see it so I don't know!) But he told me no problem there and I don't NEED a new one. We will see. Also I got another source coil off ebay and I will check how the whole stator/generator/coil setup looks when I get it back, but I think I will just run the O.O.S. oem coil this season.

I Have not mentioned the chamfer on the piston window, for fear of sounding like an idiot. So I will just look at it myself when I get the motor back and see. Should be able to see it with a flashlight thru the intake. It will suck if it's not smoothed, but I think it will be.
I asked if he had looked at the clutch hub's for wear and he told me that they did not look too bad, but if they are worn a bit he will smooth them when he rebuilds it. That is fine for now, I guess.
I can change all that myself next year if I really need to (flywheel, coil, new clutch hubs, whatever) I'm not too worried about it, I think he will do a good job overall.
I just wanted to know peoples feelings on millenium
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on March 23, 2011, 01:26:01 PM
So nobody has any ratings on millenium? As far as plate jobs go?? :-(

Still wating on my engine. And my carb from dicks. :|
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: kaw rider on March 23, 2011, 02:47:51 PM
here is a fresh plating job from mellenium. this cylinder has been replated 3 times for free under there warranty.  :?
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: sandblaster on March 23, 2011, 04:48:44 PM
I know it's expensive but I think it's time they completely changed out their solution or pay for the right balance of chemicals to re-new their solution, and I don't mean just adding chrome.
Either way it's not cheap but re-plating 3 times  :?
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on March 24, 2011, 09:11:29 AM
Thanks Kaw that's fantastic. I guess I pretty much just threw-up on this engine by letting this guy get his hands on it! I'M PISSED, I don't even know anymore. Whatever, F#@K it honestly. It's getting to the point that I don't even have the will to finish this whole agenda. NO help from anyone. Still 20 degrees outside. Maybe I should just take up shoveling snow as a hobby. I was going to post pics of the carb. I just got back from dick's, but screw it. I'm not even useing it anyway. And I don't even like what I see for a # of reasons. Oh-well I'm going to go watch some tv and actually enjoy my time off for a change. It's cheaper too, since all I seem to be able to get done right on this build is spend $$ :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x


SORRY GUYS, I WILL BE THE FIRST TO ADMIT I AM VERY TEMPERMENTAL. I DO NOT MEAN ANYTHING BY IT. I will leave this post on here though.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: kaw rider on March 24, 2011, 09:33:50 AM
dont give up this quick. take some time off on this build and come back refreshed.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: don46 on March 24, 2011, 09:45:17 AM
Dude,

Take a deep breath, a step backwards and regroup. I've spent thousands on hair brained ideas, some worked some didn't but I never let it discourage me. Some of what I've read about your build was to lose some power to make it more rider friendly, if that is the case don't worry about the stator, in fact if the goal was to make a good trail bike I wouldn't have ponied up for the carb either, get it together, ride it and have fun, believe me you can have as much fun with 60 hp as with 65hp. Hinson quit making clutch baskets several years ago, there may be some around as surplus, I have one and I can say it has held up incredibly. I wouldn't buy a Pro X unless I really needed a new basket, I would go for the Talon it is a nice basket as well.

Kaw rider mentioned 4.4, it was good stuff but in a 2t I would use the Q16 or maybe the MR12 (about $25 a gallon but helped us win a national championship) for the trail rider/play rider I would use something like vp C-12 or equivilent. Oh by the way I have part of a barrel of 4.4 that somebody could have for free if they come and get it. I'm in MT
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: Motorrad on March 24, 2011, 09:48:00 AM
 :-o :-o  Just dropped in here. havnt been in this thread for a while ... Yikes.

What Happened to the motor??!!

No help from anyone??

Pm me, Ill give you my phone number, and will answer any questions I can, no matter how long it takes.    :mrgreen:


Thanks Kaw that's fantastic. I guess I pretty much just threw-up on this engine by letting this guy get his hands on it! I'M PISSED, I don't even know anymore. Whatever, F#@K it honestly. It's getting to the point that I don't even have the will to finish this whole agenda. NO help from anyone. Still 20 degrees outside. Maybe I should just take up shoveling snow as a hobby. I was going to post pics of the carb. I just got back from dick's, but screw it. I'm not even useing it anyway. And I don't even like what I see for a # of reasons. Oh-well I'm going to go watch some tv and actually enjoy my time off for a change. It's cheaper too, since all I seem to be able to get done right on this build is spend $$ :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: DoldGuy on March 24, 2011, 09:50:39 AM
Dude,

Take a deep breath, a step backwards and regroup. I've spent thousands on hair brained ideas, some worked some didn't but I never let it discourage me. Some of what I've read about your build was to lose some power to make it more rider friendly, if that is the case don't worry about the stator, in fact if the goal was to make a good trail bike I wouldn't have ponied up for the carb either, get it together, ride it and have fun, believe me you can have as much fun with 60 hp as with 65hp. Hinson quit making clutch baskets several years ago, there may be some around as surplus, I have one and I can say it has held up incredibly. I wouldn't buy a Pro X unless I really needed a new basket, I would go for the Talon it is a nice basket as well.

Kaw rider mentioned 4.4, it was good stuff but in a 2t I would use the Q16 or maybe the MR12 (about $25 a gallon but helped us win a national championship) for the trail rider/play rider I would use something like vp C-12 or equivilent. Oh by the way I have part of a barrel of 4.4 that somebody could have for free if they come and get it. I'm in MT


+1
DoldGuy
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: DoldGuy on March 24, 2011, 09:51:16 AM
:-o :-o  Just dropped in here. havnt been in this thread for a while ... Yikes.

What Happened to the motor??!!

No help from anyone??

Pm me, Ill give you my phone number, and will answer any questions I can, no matter how long it takes.    :mrgreen:


Thanks Kaw that's fantastic. I guess I pretty much just threw-up on this engine by letting this guy get his hands on it! I'M PISSED, I don't even know anymore. Whatever, F#@K it honestly. It's getting to the point that I don't even have the will to finish this whole agenda. NO help from anyone. Still 20 degrees outside. Maybe I should just take up shoveling snow as a hobby. I was going to post pics of the carb. I just got back from dick's, but screw it. I'm not even useing it anyway. And I don't even like what I see for a # of reasons. Oh-well I'm going to go watch some tv and actually enjoy my time off for a change. It's cheaper too, since all I seem to be able to get done right on this build is spend $$ :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x

+1
DoldGuy
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: DoldGuy on March 24, 2011, 09:53:13 AM
Now think about your user name! You did not earn that by throwing in the towel now did you? We are here to help! :-D
DoldGuy
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on March 24, 2011, 10:10:41 AM
I know :-( im just ticked off because I knew that was going to be the case with the plate job. :oops:
As far as no help, I meant the people around me, no interest whatsoever. You guys are a great help. At this point I am impatiently waiting to get my engine back from the builder so I can look it over Really Good and see how it all looks. You can't win them all I guess... but at least one would be nice.

So here are the carb. pics. I am not too sure about it, I wish he at least wrote what jetting it had on the side of it with a sharpie! :-( It is supposed to have the sticker on it with all the jet info, I guess he ran out of stickers! :wink: All the paperwork says is Carb. Mods.?? I'm not sure he even opened it up, but I can't see how he could not have. Also looks like there is still quite a bit of machining dust still in the thing! I don't like the way the idle screws getting jammed by it and there is a small blue hose thats kinked in behind too. I couldnt get a good pic of it but it's right next to the idle screw to the left. And I wish I had known before that the dial-a-jet makes the carb. no longer usefull if removed! Unless you plugged the hole in the float bowl and intake. I do not think I really Need to use this-and I already have a brand new Carb. sitting in the shop in a box from carb parts wherehouse. This seems like overkill to me. WELL I gotta say this has been one hell of a learning experience! :lol:
Almost forgot the pics!
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1012_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1014_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1015_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1016_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1017_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1018_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1019_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1020_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1021_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1022_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1025_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1028_1.jpg)
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on March 24, 2011, 10:41:02 AM
Dude,

Take a deep breath, a step backwards and regroup. I've spent thousands on hair brained ideas, some worked some didn't but I never let it discourage me. Some of what I've read about your build was to lose some power to make it more rider friendly, if that is the case don't worry about the stator, in fact if the goal was to make a good trail bike I wouldn't have ponied up for the carb either, get it together, ride it and have fun, believe me you can have as much fun with 60 hp as with 65hp. Hinson quit making clutch baskets several years ago, there may be some around as surplus, I have one and I can say it has held up incredibly. I wouldn't buy a Pro X unless I really needed a new basket, I would go for the Talon it is a nice basket as well.

Kaw rider mentioned 4.4, it was good stuff but in a 2t I would use the Q16 or maybe the MR12 (about $25 a gallon but helped us win a national championship) for the trail rider/play rider I would use something like vp C-12 or equivilent. Oh by the way I have part of a barrel of 4.4 that somebody could have for free if they come and get it. I'm in MT
Thanks for the pick me up. by the way, I have settled on VP's C-10
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on March 26, 2011, 11:37:20 AM
I thought you guys would be more interested in the carb!

 I was talking to my dad, and he told me that the dial-a-jet has been around for a while, and that it was made by thunder products???
 Dick is selling it like it is HIS NEW Gadget!
 I show my father the carb. and he's like "oh yea ive seen those" THIS IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT! NO INTEREST! I have been talking about this carb. job for a month and it's like he didn't hear a word I said! He used to run a "performance harley"(oxymoron) shop for a few years and he has seen it all before, BUT he has no interest in helping me with this? :x Whatever  :x

Has anyone run one of these? Thunder Products claims you don't have to jet anymore with one of these, just adjust the D-A-J? That sounds fishy :?
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: russ on March 26, 2011, 02:19:09 PM
what does that do and whats the clear line go to and whats that on the end of it
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: Friar-Tuck on March 27, 2011, 07:29:57 PM
 Hey Russ,
 The clear line is a vent with a fuel filter and open cell foam to keep the carb from ingesting dirt.
99.9% of carb vents are open to the atmosphere, as the fuel level rises and falls in the bowl it will pull in dust.
  There are several posts here on the subject. Camm22 had a really neat set up using billet washable R/C fuel filters.

   The blue line is a fuel take-off from the bowl to the Dial.
As the air is pulled past the brass tube in the mouth of the carb it is at lower pressure than atmosphere, additional fuel is drawn  in the intake airstream.
   The amount of fuel varies by how much you "dial" in, or out.
You still have to jet the carb, but the Idea is that you can simply adjust the jetting using the dial instead of swapping out  pilots and mains. 
  Tuck\o/
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on March 28, 2011, 09:38:41 AM
OK, I got my engine back from the builder and it LOOKS GOOD! :-D :-D
 I am a fairly happy camper. I have been stressing this whole thing like crazy latley and I think I finally got over it. If you are spending boku $$ on a project, and learning the whole thing for the FIRST TIME, some thing you have been dying to do for 18yrs of your life, your bound to get a little up-tite about it!
 Sorry for the bitchin in some of my posts, it was never directed toward anybody here. I'm Learning a LOT, and learning how to have FUN with it too! :wink:
( I took a look at the plate job... as far as I can tell it looks good. )


SO, with that out of the way- Here are some pics of the engine. I have had very little time latley so my bench is a mess! And I really did not have time to take pics, so I just snapped a few shots. LOOKS GOOD SO FAR($1'450.00 worth of "good so far"!). Thanks for all the know how guys. MORE LATER!
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1053_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1050_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1051_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1052_1.jpg)
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-o :-o :-o :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: kaw rider on March 28, 2011, 11:10:02 AM
looks good, is that a coated base gasket or a paper one.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on March 28, 2011, 01:17:09 PM
Paper, I unfortunately got a gasket kit ahead of time and gave it to him when I dropped it off for the build... and he used them. In hindsight I think the gaskets were kind of junk, but if need be they can be replaced. He red rtv'd the exaust crush ring up in the jug too.. and that came from that kit.... I think I want to take that out of there and put a OEM one in.... I bought three of the things! I did not have time today to do a serious look over but I will soon. I'm sure I will find a few things I want to mess with. :-D
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: RoostDaddy on April 02, 2011, 02:40:00 AM
keep an eye on the base gasket, the paper ones are prone to blow.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on May 12, 2011, 02:03:03 PM
WELL... I picked up the aluminum ignition cover from boysen to keep the water out of my flywheel housing that corroded the crap out of my flywheel before!
And come to find out it does NOT FIT over the steathy flywheel weight!! I would say I need another 3/16" of depth. With a few paint stirrers it seemed to not hit. Need to do some more testing to see how much thickness it would take not to rub at all.

(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1201_1.jpg)

So I am thinking about making a spacer out of 3/16" aluminum plate. I could just copy the boysen gasket that was given with the ign. cover on 3/16" plate cut it, drill it, clean it up nice and I would be able to use this cover with the weight on. But I would need to use 2 gaskets for it. That still would not get it to stick out as far as the plastic stockie! So it won't be getting in the way of the shifter.

(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1202_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1204_1.jpg)

You should see how nice the flywheel looks now! looks like new!  :-)
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: weymouth399 on May 12, 2011, 03:42:15 PM
Ok some may not belive this.
But I had a moisture problem under the mag cover a long time ago, on a brand new bike.
I replaced every thing there was to replace.
As I was washing it (something I did after every ride).
I noticed the kill button wire just sitting there, as a great big straw going all the way to my ignition. Pulled the cover and it was wet again.
Stuffed silicon up from inside, on all my new bikes since, with no water problem since either.

Bob W
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: Polar-Bus on May 13, 2011, 01:25:31 AM
Ok some may not belive this.
But I had a moisture problem under the mag cover a long time ago, on a brand new bike.
I replaced every thing there was to replace.
As I was washing it (something I did after every ride).
I noticed the kill button wire just sitting there, as a great big straw going all the way to my ignition. Pulled the cover and it was wet again.
Stuffed silicon up from inside, on all my new bikes since, with no water problem since either.

Bob W

The OEM plastic mag cover distorts when you crank the bolts  down. Don't bother with the OEM gasket, I use Permatex black RTV instead of a gasket. Problem solved.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: Polar-Bus on May 13, 2011, 01:27:20 AM
WELL... I picked up the aluminum ignition cover from boysen to keep the water out of my flywheel housing that corroded the crap out of my flywheel before!
And come to find out it does NOT FIT over the steathy flywheel weight!! I would say I need another 3/16" of depth. With a few paint stirrers it seemed to not hit. Need to do some more testing to see how much thickness it would take not to rub at all.


So I am thinking about making a spacer out of 3/16" aluminum plate. I could just copy the boysen gasket that was given with the ign. cover on 3/16" plate cut it, drill it, clean it up nice and I would be able to use this cover with the weight on. But I would need to use 2 gaskets for it. That still would not get it to stick out as far as the plastic stockie! So it won't be getting in the way of the shifter.

You should see how nice the flywheel looks now! looks like new!  :-)

I seem to remember somewhere that there is a company that already makes a mag spacer for the 500 I wish I could remember where I saw that spacer...  :?
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on May 13, 2011, 11:21:16 AM
Thanks guys! And definitly I will stuff the wire somewhere so the water can not trickle down the sheath when you wash it!! THATS a smart guy idea right there! :-D good observation!
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on May 13, 2011, 11:22:48 AM
Ok some may not belive this.
But I had a moisture problem under the mag cover a long time ago, on a brand new bike.
I replaced every thing there was to replace.
As I was washing it (something I did after every ride).
I noticed the kill button wire just sitting there, as a great big straw going all the way to my ignition. Pulled the cover and it was wet again.
Stuffed silicon up from inside, on all my new bikes since, with no water problem since either.

Bob W

I belive you. +1
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on May 20, 2011, 08:29:10 AM
Got My Kips set up right I think. :oops: I took it apart to see if the guy that did the engine reset the arm for the new stop bolt. And he did not! :-( So I think I have it now. I could not notice much of a difference, I don't know if it's all working right. :? The only way to be sure would be to do the whole engine myself, so that is what I will do next year. Here are a few pics, let me know what you think.  :|

(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1228_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1231_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1237_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1234_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1236_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1266_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1267_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1268_1.jpg)
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m510/delphipro/IMG_1271_1.jpg)

I heard a little grinding when I was moving the shaft back and forth, is that normal? :?
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on May 21, 2011, 12:18:20 AM
Sorry bout all the pics. I hope that doesnt mess with the site.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: Motorrad on May 21, 2011, 05:10:10 AM
can you describe the pics...

the one you shot of the Barrel valves..... is that closed or open on the "acuating rod"   

Cant tell if your fiddling with things or not in the shots.  ;)

Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on May 21, 2011, 12:27:23 PM
Let's see, the shot of the kips barrel I belive is at full open. I had the rod free to move at that point and just pulled it "out" till it stopped. When pushed "in" the ports were closed, and I could not see really what the kips bolt is doing. Is there a port you can not see on the oppisite side? I should have messed with it more but I didn't. If you had the stop bolt out and pushed the rod "in" would it just keep going till the c-clip hit the cylinder?(did not want to over rotate the barrels) The shots of my finger are one pulling it a bit and the other pushing on it.(both with lever nut tite, readjusted to new kips bolt) I was just hopeing someone could say it looks like it is in the correct position. I am fairly sure it is working correctly.
And it is a bit crunchy when you rotate the barrels! :-( He may have not gotten all the s.blast grit out of it before final assem.) Actually, now that I look at the pic of the barrel I think I see some grit particles in there!
just gonna runna and see how she goes! :roll: I'm a bit of a Mainer... Or maniac as they calls us! :-D
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: kaw rider on May 21, 2011, 01:55:18 PM
you just hope there no grit in that area, it will be in your motor after you start it. Also hopefully your sandblaster sealed off your exhaust pipe too when he blast it.
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: Motorrad on May 21, 2011, 02:16:25 PM
you just hope there no grit in that area, it will be in your motor after you start it. Also hopefully your sandblaster sealed off your exhaust pipe too when he blast it.

Yep seen lots of guys ruin 2 stroke motors from blasting the pipes..
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: delphipro5 on May 22, 2011, 08:01:53 AM
I will look over it again inside the barrels and ports and make sure to get any grit I see OUT! As far as the oem pipe, I need to fix the crack in it. And then I will send it to a REAL coater to do a ceramicoat on it inside and out if possible. If he can't get it inside then I will ask him to flush out the inside somehow. If you flush it thouroghly will it be o.k.?
Title: Re: On the subject of engine work
Post by: kxpegger on May 22, 2011, 09:36:27 AM
I will look over it again inside the barrels and ports and make sure to get any grit I see OUT! As far as the oem pipe, I need to fix the crack in it. And then I will send it to a REAL coater to do a ceramicoat on it inside and out if possible. If he can't get it inside then I will ask him to flush out the inside somehow. If you flush it thouroghly will it be o.k.?

I use 1/2" sharp edged landscaping rock and strong detergent. Put your favorite movie on and start shaking! Make sure you get all the rocks out when your done!