KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: sandblaster on January 13, 2011, 04:09:38 AM
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Hello all.
I contacted Falicon about purchasing some knife rods.
http://www.faliconcranks.com/1pc.html (http://www.faliconcranks.com/1pc.html)
They do not make them at this time but they may be willing to make some if I get them the dimensions and if we can order enough of them.
I know there may be some who would like them, but how many here are willing to actually buy them?
I wouldn't think they would be cheap but if we can develop another high quality source for them other than OEM, I'm all for keeping the K5 alive :lol:
Let me know what you all think.
As a side note, I seem to remember someone had a CAD drawing of a rod.
I thought it was for the K5.
If you have it and don't mind sharing I can send it to Falicon for a cost estimate.
If not, I'll have to wait till I get a new rod and make the drawing myself 8-)
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If it keeps our k5 alive for another 10 years I'm definitely in on a couple.
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i would buy 1, ready for the next rebuild :-D
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Great Idea Blaster!
I would love to say I would buy one, but something always seems to crop up...
I'd surely do what I could if someone orders and can't ante up. Put me down to buy overstock! :?
Tuck\o/
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I'm getting all the info together so we'll see what happens.
I hoping for the best but prepared for the worst.... Access Denied.....
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the wrist pin hole is 24mm , the crank pin hole is 33mm , the length from center to center of the 2 holes is 145mm , the width of the rod top and bottom is 22mm and the crank pin is 26mm x 54.6mm and there are 2 thrust washers . I hope this will help its from the ProX catalog . I would definetly be interested in at least 1 maybe 2 if the price is right also think Roostdaddy and Doldguy maybe on board also Roost and I hace some buddies that maybe on board.CBX
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Thanks.
This is what they were asking for:
Yes, we would need the following measurements from the rod:
1. Inside diameter of the small end
2. Inside diameter of the big end
3. Width of the small end
4. Width of the big end
5. Distance from the ?bottom? of the small end to the ?top? of the big end (the best way to do this is to ?pinch? the rod with calipers. Try to make sure you get this measurement as accurate as possible)
For the pin, washers, and bearing we just need:
1. Outside diameter of the pin
2. Length of the pin
3. Thickness of the washers
We don?t actually need any measurements for the bearing since we can figure that out once we have the rod and pin dimensions.
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ID of small end is 24mm, ID of big end is 33mm, width of both small & big is 22mm, distance from bottom of small end to top of big end is 116.5mm or distance from center to center small to big is 145mm, the outside diameter of the pin is 26mm , the length of the pin is 54.6mm not sure about the width of the thrust washers.CBX
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Hopefully someone can help with the thrust washer info. PLEASE!!!! :roll:
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What kind of tolerance is needed to hold those dimensions?
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Good question.
I'm sure there must be some sort of industry tolerance but what it is exactly would probably depend on which part of the rod, bearing, or pin you are specifying.
Falicon didn't ask for tolerances, only the basic dimensions.
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I would probably chip in for one too.
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GREETINGs, Put me in for SEVERAL :-D Thank You L.W.
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I called CP/Carrillo rods about a KX125 piston kit they offer and while I was on the phone with them I ask about a price on knife cut Carrillo Rods , He said if you order 1 to 40 they would be $378.50 you get a price break on 40 or more , now that was retail pricing and I 'm sure they have a jobber rate ,because he stressed to me that it was retail pricing ,. I'm pretty sure you could get a better deal though the business.CBX
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Looks like its time to get the long rod motor going. That price is good on a nice part with low numbers.
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That seems a bit grabby, but then they probably aren't a standard stock item, the 450's are around 200-250.
In my opinion the Carillio is a superior rod to the Falicon, I've seen them fail whereas I've not seen a Carillio rod fail.
It would be nice if a person could find out who was making the Titanium rods, I picked one up on ebay, it was/is a sweet rod and tough as all get out.
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Do you want this rod for the performance?
I've never heard of any problems with the stock rod. What is the performance increase?
I read the company "line" but what is the real world increase or benefit?
$259 in lots of 10 is allot of money. I can buy 5 OEM's for that price with $26 bucks left over.
My cost from the local shop is only $46.47. for OEM, no shipping
13032-1184 Rod-Connecting List $73.47 Service Honda $55.36 plus shipping.
Falicon
240-002 Custom Forged One- Piece Knife Rod (10 PC. Min) MSRP $259. $2590 plus shipping.
If you guys are going to spend that kind of money send them a new OEM so they can measure it, then any mistake is on them.
$55.36 is a drop in the bucket to make absolutely sure it's correct.
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Excellent idea!
I have contacted Carillio about dealer pricing.
I'll see what they say and post as soon as I have the info.
If I can get a decent price I might be willing to place an order for a batch.
More as I know it....... :-o
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If you go Carillio I'm interested.
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These guys are down the street from me... They are responsible for the fastest vw motors at the dunes etc... I'm sure they would make us k5 rods...
http://www.pauter.com/titanium.htm
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I'm all ears :evil:
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here a titanium rod for a cr 500 but its not a part you would run in your motor for a long time at $1200.00.
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It's only money :|
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I received an email back from Carrillo.
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We currently are not able to do two stroke connecting rods but this is something that we are going to be working on over the next year. You might check in with us say after July and we might be ready to do some early two stroke runs at that time.
Best regards,
Barry Deane
Sales & Engineering
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So, I will be checking back later this summer.
That still leaves us with the Falicon option.
I will continue to check on it and see what comes of it.
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Did you try Pauter?
I just gave you their contact info.. you get to do the foot work... hahaha..
Billit titanium rods would be nice...
and I now from the VW guys local that run their titanium rods.... that C5 rod was WAY over priced.
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here a titanium rod for a cr 500 but its not a part you would run in your motor for a long time at $1200.00.
Why would you not run it for a long time? or are you saying that $1200 it doesn't justify the cost? I've ran the one in my 500 for probably 4 years with Nitrous, I think the crank is out of true but see no ill effects on the rod, my intention is to get a new bearing, pin and washers and rebuild the crank and have another go with it.
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IMS also makes a rod:
IMS - Pro Series Connecting Rods
* IMS rods are the choice of champion engine builders.
* Rods are made with 8620 carbon steel, followed by a process of double forging, double vibrating and double honing.
* Rod bearings are cryogenically treated and silver coated to displace excess heat.
* Surpass OE rods for durability, wear and rod life.
* Come complete with rod, crankpin, rod bearing and thrust washers.
Anybody ever ran one?
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sandblaster
Sorry to break some bad new to you. Roostdaddy call me today and he said that he has ran ims pro series and had good luck with them but he said they are no longer being made. He did score some old stock.
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Well I lucked out and scored one.
I actually bought it so I could get measurements to send to Falicon and Carillo.
I could have ordered an OEM but I suspect I'll put it in another project engine much later this year :-D
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My 99 Team Green bike was used by the IMS team. Pretty sure it has an IMS rod in it. Wish I had taken pics when I put a new Wiseco in last fall. Nice looking rod. Was polished and very sleek in shape.
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My IMS rod arrived today.
Here is some general specs:
(http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu165/oemcycle/KX500AF%20PROJECT/IMSCONNECTINGROD.jpg)
Thrust washer thickness is 1.0mm each. OD 41.6mm, ID 26.2mm.
The pin is 25.98mm OD, 13.95mm ID and is 54.4mm long.
(http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu165/oemcycle/KX500AF%20PROJECT/2.jpg)
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sandblaster
Can you weight just the rod
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.55lb
How does that compare to a stock one?
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9.8 oz.
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Very close.
Do you know what material the stock rods are made from?
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As an update I contacted Pauter Machine Co about making some Titanium rods.
We will see what they say.
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Scratch that idea.
Here was their reply:
I'm sorry, we aren't able to make these for you. Our forging does not allow for one-piece rods.
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Scratch that idea.
Here was their reply:
I'm sorry, we aren't able to make these for you. Our forging does not allow for one-piece rods.
Sad... very sad... I wanted Nifty titanium parts.
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That would have been nifty.
We will see what the other companies say about the rods.
It may end up being semi nifty. :-)
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what about the hot rods brand? i had to buy one for my 86, at the time i could not find anything else. in the past i have used on other bikes, always thought they were good quality.
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what about the hot rods brand? i had to buy one for my 86, at the time i could not find anything else. in the past i have used on other bikes, always thought they were good quality.
i know you are talking about using hot rods in a 500, but my crank rebuild with hot rods rod in my 250 is holding up very well,
i am impressed with it.
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K5+hotrod=kawablamo
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what about the hot rods brand? i had to buy one for my 86, at the time i could not find anything else. in the past i have used on other bikes, always thought they were good quality.
I have seen good and bad with hot rod products but you have to consider what I see on a daily basis.
If I had no other choice I would use them.
However, they are re-building them in China.
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well they say that the hot rods are shot peened (whatever that means) does that make them any better?
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i remember seeing a made in tawain sticker on box. it is what it is i guess. i think they used to be better when owned by ims. all my parts looked nice, to help the whole deal was balanced. hopefully i never see a kawaboom or whatever from this.
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We shot peen oil field parts for machine shops. We peen drill rods that are used to bore under the road for utility right of way.
Shot peening is a cold working process used to produce a compressive residual stress layer and modify mechanical properties of metals. It entails impacting a surface with shot (round metallic, glass, or ceramic particles) with force sufficient to create plastic deformation.[1] It is similar to sandblasting, except that it operates by the mechanism of plasticity rather than abrasion: each particle functions as a ball-peen hammer. In practice, this means that less material is removed by the process, and less dust created.
Peening a surface spreads it plastically, causing changes in the mechanical properties of the surface. Shot peening is often called for in aircraft repairs to relieve tensile stresses built up in the grinding process and replace them with beneficial compressive stresses. Depending on the part geometry, part material, shot material, shot quality, shot intensity, shot coverage, shot peening can increase fatigue life from 0?1000%.
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+1
I had the rods shot peened on a hi-per 4.3 Chevy Vortec V-6 that was the test bed for many different products 20-25 years ago.
We blew the stock rods to pieces.
After shot peening was done to the stock rods I could wind the springs out of that engine and never had another rod problem.
I did blow a few other parts over time but the rods were sweet.
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leave the hotrods well alone, theres a vid on utube where the guy checks a new kx250 croank and rod assembly(taiwan) and it was junk before he ever ran it.vesrah are forged too, worth a look...
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GREETINGs, When will thay be made :| L.W.
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That's a great question.
Since I sent them both measurements I have not heard another word from them :x