KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: Erwin8r on July 23, 2010, 06:07:11 AM
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Hi fellas! Newb from the Los Angeles area, Been lurking here a while, and thought I would finally post... I have a weird machine--it's a Kawasaki Tecate 4 with an '86 KX500 engine. I picked up the bike because it was sold to me as a "good hybrid with a '91 low-hour KX5 engine." Well, that was obviously not the case. After using the good engine number year tracer on here, I determined that the engine was an '86 (or at least the cases). It threw me off becuase the engine has no paint on it, and I remember my old '86 KX5 had a black engine (one of the few details I really remember).
In any event, first thing I noticed when I pulled off the fill cap was some white stuff on it... then the dreaded milky cream stuff came out of the drain plug... I'm yanking the head/cylinders off in the morning (going for a full tear-down on what I initially thought was going to be a simple carb swap, oil change, and ride!). Can you all tell me if a simple head gasket issue would cause water to be in the tranny? Or am I looking at a blown seal somewhere? I think there is oil in the cooling system too, but I will confirm in the morning.
Is the '86 a good platform to use? Any known issues with the '86 K5 that would cause me to turn and run? I guess I kind just want a "sure, its a great engine, go for it!!" :mrgreen: Does it have a KIPS? It seems it was tuned by "Selvy" and has a Selvy hand made pipe...
Any help or tips would be appreciated.
TIA
I will post more pics as the tear down/build-up progresses...
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a141/Erwin8r/My%20Banshee/Tecate500Engine.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a141/Erwin8r/My%20Banshee/TecateKicker-3.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a141/Erwin8r/My%20Banshee/TecateArms-2.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a141/Erwin8r/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0380.jpg)
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DONT TEAR DOWN YET. i would say your problem is most definatly the water pump seal. remove pump cover, remove impeller, take off clutch cover and pull out pump shaft and seal (take note of its orientation). inspect the pump shaft for groves and pitting as this will destroy the new seal. if the shaft is bad it needs to be replaced or reconditioned. if ok renew seal be sure to put it in the right way. rebuild and put cheap gear oil in. run for abit checking water level regularly. if ok and oil ok (oil will still be a bit milky) change oil. ride and have fun but keep an eye on the water.
if the water pump shaft is bad or you are unsure post a pic. i will give you instructions for the machine shop
sorry if you know all this but may useful to some one
best regards
john
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Ditto on the water pump seal. Easy fix. nice quad. Bet it rips. Welcome. '86 were good motors, I'm sure. Problem will be getting parts very soon, if not already.
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John, Thank you very much!! This is just the type of advice I was looking for, as the only two-stroke "repair" experience I have is when I was re-doing my Banshee.... Every other dirt bike I've had a shop do (my old KX5, CR500, KX450F, etc.). Its only when I got into quads did I start making the time to do things myself.
I'll pull the covers and the impeller off and have a good look. I'll note the orientation of the seal and the bearings. Any special tricks to removing the seal or will it be painfully obvious?
It's supposed to have a billet basket, but I guess I'll find out when I pull the cover off. Oh, and will I need a clutch cover gasket?
And, without trying to start controversy, after the initial changes, what oil should I run in it?
Edit. Hillclimb: Yeah, I figure that stuff might be hard to get for this engine. And although the case numbers tell me it's an '86, it looks an awful lot like an '87/'88 too... Hmmm... Still, I'm intruiged by the idea of a KX500-powered quad and going to do this one right--especially after seeing what some of you have done with your older KX'! Wow! (espcially that nut that runs his in the snow, and takes his old British bike out in the frigid Canadian winter... gotta love it! LOL!).
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i think that the pump seal is shared with much later models. dont know about the shaft but like i said that can be fixed
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Welcome Erwinater!
Cool bike, The only problems I can remember reading about is that parts are getting harder to find. Not that they are not out there. Ya' Just have to be patient or make your own.
The KIPS valves teeth get worn down over time and and or get carbon choked and jam. These are more of just old parts with lots of Hrs. as apposed to bad engineering (I think).
Clymer still makes a manual,
http://www.clymer.com/SearchResults.aspx?t=kx500&
Kawasaki only appears to have a "tuning manual"
http://www.kawasaki.com/DefaultFrame.aspx?strContentURL=/Site/VIVehicleInformation/VItechpubs.asp?intCatalogID%3d2%26CatalogTypeID%3d4%26ProductTypeID%3d10%26ModelMarketingID%3d138%26ModelCode%3dKX500B2%26ModelYear%3d1986%26SHOWVEHTABS%3d1
And there's always Amazon & E-bay
I have alot of manual stuff in my gallery http://www.kxriders.com/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=lastup&cat=1&page=2
& Photobucket http://s69.photobucket.com/home/Friar-Tuck (adding as guys need it)
Sounds like the guys are on the right track, and here's a thread to also consider:
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,6472.0.html
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,347.0.html
Tuck\o/
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seal is easy to remove, just tap it out with a punch or screw driver. a new gasket is a good idea, or buy a set its cheaper in the long run. just 1 final point when replacing the clutch cover be carful not crack it when tighting in down, make sure its home properly (you probably know this).
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Tuck, wow--thanks! That's great info!
Edit: John, thanks! All of that is helpful. I need to treat that cover carefully as it has been modified for the extended kicker shaft--would be a pain in the neck to have another one done...
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You Betcha' ,
This may not be the biggest forum on the web, But the guys here have helped me & others like us through more problems than you can shake a stick at..and without all the attitude!
I'm having a problem loging in to the Gallery, as soon as I hear from "The Boss" I'll try to get the H2o Seal stuff from the books posted.
\o/
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i have cracked 1 before. its the sort of thing you only do once lol. any problem just get on here with photos if you can they are better than words most of the time
good luck
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There is one thing that could do that milky thing to.
There is a cast in iron ring around the crank bearings place.
Because of the two different materials a crack or leak can form there. Fuel gets in the transmission oil and that makes it milky aswell.
I wil post picks with a solution tomorrow.
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Thanks, Lawmower man--but I'm pretty sure this was coolant.
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(espcially that nut that runs his in the snow, and takes his old British bike out in the frigid Canadian winter... gotta love it! LOL!).
Haha, thanks!
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Oke. Maybe it's wise to do this small mod aswell.
It's on a 93 KX500 engine btw.
(http://i27.tinypic.com/bf1k08.jpg)
(http://i31.tinypic.com/2a65og6.jpg)
(http://i27.tinypic.com/sxbp6v.jpg)
(http://i27.tinypic.com/30c4rxz.jpg)
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Sorry it took so long... :x I have unsuccessfully been able to load these in order, If I move anything it goofs up all the previous links....
I apologize, you have to hunt through the thumbnails to find succeeding pages....
Cooling Sys. Ch.3
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i75/Friar-Tuck/KX%20500/ServManChapter3CoolingSystem-125-250-5001.jpg)
http://s69.photobucket.com/home/Friar-Tuck/recentuploads
\o/
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Wow. Thanks, guys! A community like this makes me want to run out and pick up a kx5! Been thinking about a replacement bike anyway.
I'll post progress reports/ pics as I pull the clutch cover off and replace the seal.
Regarding that "iron ring" mod above, would jb weld be a suitable replacement for that loctite stuff, or should I stick the the loctite?
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JB weld is fine.
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:-D http://s69.photobucket.com/home/Friar-Tuck/recentuploads
\o/
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Thanks, Friar, Snoop, guys. Got the cover off yesterday (I know, should be simple, but weekends have been busy lately! LOL).
Ugly, milky stuff! Yuck! The clutch basket is definitely NOT billet. Nothing else looks untoward. The oil seal looks ok, but the bearings on the impeller seem rough--and there was some "stuff" on the seal, so it probably is the culprit. I'm ordering the seal, bearings, and gaskets from Bike Bandit. Aside from this, and the JB weld job, anything else I shiold do before I button her up?
Thanks again!
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a141/Erwin8r/My%20Banshee/Tec-KXCltuch-1.jpg)
Yuck!!!
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a141/Erwin8r/My%20Banshee/Tec-KXClutch-2.jpg)
Almost 500cc's... ;)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a141/Erwin8r/My%20Banshee/Tec-KXIntake-1.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a141/Erwin8r/My%20Banshee/TEc-KXKicker-14.jpg)
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Take your time getting the kicker lined up and installed correctly, you may have to wiggle the tranny to get all the gears lined up. It doesn't take too awful much to push the cover on once everything is lined up.
You'll be fine E,
Good luck!
Tuck\o/
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'nother question: If I decided to buy a newer engine (Say, a late 90's or 2000+), would my clutch cover fit it? Could I use the same kicker shaft? Not saying I'm giving up on this one yet (by any stretch), but just thinking ahead a bit...
Also, besides Bike Bandit, are there any other OEM parts sites with good pricing/shipping?
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i found these just in case.
/inlandempire.craigslist.org/mcy/1850520534.html
/reno.craigslist.org/mcy/1858854909.html
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'nother question: If I decided to buy a newer engine (Say, a late 90's or 2000+), would my clutch cover fit it? Could I use the same kicker shaft? Not saying I'm giving up on this one yet (by any stretch), but just thinking ahead a bit...
Also, besides Bike Bandit, are there any other OEM parts sites with good pricing/shipping?
It would appear that whoever built the unit modified the kicker shaft and added a bearing, stock they do not have that nor are they as long. you will note that your clutch only has 5 springs, I think that is the only year with 5, maybe 85 as well, and as I recall you can't just use one off a newer bike, they have different splines. The KIPS drums are no longer available from Kawi, and you are right that 87 and 88 have some parts in common, they also have obsolete parts. The cylinder and heads would work on a newer motor, and they do have pretty nice port configuration. go into it knowing that you will have to buy used parts or you'll have to scrap it and get a newer motor. the clutch cover is the same configuration on the newer 500's, you will have to change the KIPS actuation arm as it is different on your 86 from a newer motor.
I do have some parts for that vintage motor if somebody needs something in particular.
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Great info, Don. More: Going to a newer engine, would it be a simple matter of changing out the cover and the kicker shaft, utilizing all of the newer parts for KIPS actuation, etc.?
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Great info, Don. More: Going to a newer engine, would it be a simple matter of changing out the cover and the kicker shaft, utilizing all of the newer parts for KIPS actuation, etc.?
Yes, is the short answer, and the long answer. use your cover, and your kick shaft, with the newer KIPS shaft and your golden. I've used the older cover on newer motors many times. the older motor had a steel KIPS governor gear and the newer is plastic, no worries either will work.
good luck
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Guys, besides Bike Bandit, is there another source for OEM parts? Want to try to get all the replacements OEM.... Thanks!
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Hey Big E,
I have had great service from these places,
Service Honda: http://www.servicehonda.com/parts.html
Motosport: http://www.motosport.com/motorcycle/index.php
Bikebandit: http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts
Thumpertalk :http://shop.thumpertalk.com/oem.asp
I have also used Amazon & E-bay
Lot's more! Here's 5 pages
http://www.bing.com/search?q=Oem+parts%2Ckawasaki&form=OSDSRC
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Ok, so, life got in the way and the project halted mid-stream... but now I'm back on it! :-D Got my new seals/bearings in and will give re-assembly a shot this weekend. I'm hoping the top-end is ok (seems very much like it is).
Now, if only I can remember how the Kips stuff came out, I'll be golden... LOL!!
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Long break. I know how that is though. I usually have many projects going on all at once.
Best thing to do is buy a clymer manual. It has lots of pics and then you will have all the torque specs. I got mine off ebay for like $20 shipped. They pay for themselves real quick. And as always, I'm here to help as much as possible.