KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX100 / KX85 / KX80 / KX65 / KX60 => Topic started by: Coop on July 18, 2010, 01:48:51 PM
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As some of you know, I completely rebuilt a KX60 for my nephew Nick. On the bench during re-assembly it shifted perfectly. On the first ride last week it would only shift past second if I pushed down slightly on the shifter and then shifted back up. Doing that it shifted through all the gears. I suspected a return spring problem so I pulled the clutch cover, pulled the clutch and completely re-installed the shift shaft, return spring, shifter mechanism, selector mechanism, etc. Now it won't shift past second at all, LOL. Shifting from first to neutral to second, and back down again is smooth as silk. But try to shift up from second and it's like you are in top gear.
It seems weird it would be a shift fork problem since it was basically working before I unassembled and reassembled the above mentioned parts. I am thinking maybe I botched something up. Any ideas? Tomorrow I plan to tear back into it but it's driving me nuts thinking about it and I was hoping for some ideas :-D .
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Maybe you didn't get the shift forks in there right.
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Maybe you didn't get the shift forks in there right.
Yeah I am starting to think I will be re-splitting the cases this week to see what the heck is going on if once I check the shifting mechanisms under the clutch cover one more time. I have too much time in it now to half-ass anything. It just seems weird to me that would be a fork because it was working and the bike only has had one slow short ride around my yard. But I am not ruling anything out.
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you didnt say if the engine was running or not. in my experience some gear boxs just like to be run a bit before they start shifting smoothly. i think its just everything settling in. i had a kx 250 that i rebiult before weston beach race. when i was running it in it would not go out of second, i started to panic as is was the day before race day. i just rode up and down the beach gently trying to shift in to 3rd and it just went after while and the bike was perfect. of course there is a chance you have put it in wrong. but before striping i would just try that, i have poped some pics in from a site i know hope they help
best regards and good luck
john
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pic 2
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pic 3
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Thanks for the pics Johnny. I have the manual and have rebuilt many bottom ends and transmissions in the past, but obviously mistakes can happen. I am having trouble tracking this issue down and I was hoping maybe it was something that happened to someone else, lol.
It was running, I only took it on one short ride around the yard. Just to exhaust all options, I may try your ride it more idea.
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you could also be quite agressive with the clutch it may just shock the afending component it to place. let us know if you get it sorted
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I had the same symptoms on my 500, and unfortunately I had to split the cases to fix it. Without the clutch nut tightened (on a KX500 anyways) the shaft has enough endplay to allow shifting to occur with the shift forks mixed up. When I did the bench test with the bottom end together, it seems A-OK. However, once you put the clutch on, tighten everything up, you only get first and second gear. I hope you didn't make same mistake, because it means going back to square 1. The shift forks were mixed up.
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That's what I am afraid of. I kind of breezed through the tranny because it was so similar to my 125 I just did a few months ago.
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Ok so I went outside and it's definitely a mechanism issue. It will shift through all the gears, but only if you push it down a 1/2" or so to reset (for lack of a better word) the shifter. Then it up shifts smooth as silk. But you have to do that for each gear. The shift lever is returning on it's on, but doesn't seem like it comes back far enough. Think the return spring could be worn?
I guess I was frustrated yesterday and that's why I didn't realize it was still doing that and I thought it wasn't shifting past second at all.
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sound like this can be sorted without spliting the cases, just a thought but is the splined shaft bent slightly
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Someone else mentioned that also. I think I am pulling that side case back off tomorrow (my back is too bad today) and I am pulling the shaft to check for straightness.
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I've had the bike apart twice now and cannot find anything assembled incorrectly or bent so I ordered a shifter return spring. For $6.64 I figured it was worth a try. Should be here early next week (local Kawie dealer).
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hi sorry to hear you have had no joy yet. could you post a pic of just below the clutch basket of the end of the sellector drum i think that is where the problem is maybe. i have just had aread throught the thread. and have had another think. Is the bearing on the sellector drum stiff/notchy. are the pins that locate in the drum tracks on the selector forks worn with flat parts on them and the little wheel that mounts just under the clutch basket on the out side on the selector drum, is that working as it should
just some more ideas
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Those parts are all good to go. I have checked them all (3 times now). It's really getting annoying now not being able to figure this out, LOL.
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im sorry to say im running low on ideas for this now. i suppose 1 option could be to replace the whole transmission but thats probably money you dont want to spend. keep us posted as to how you are getting on with it
good luck
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Well once the return spring comes in, if that doesn't fix I guess I will just have to replace other parts. It's definitely something on the outside because it shifts perfectly you just have to "reset" the shifter every time after 2nd gear.
I have honestly never had a problem like. The actual problem AND the fact that I just can't figure it out, haha.
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Coop, sounds like you need to "step away" from this issue. Clear the brain a few days, let the clouds and smoke dissipate, let the new spring come in, and when you get back on it, go through each step again, don't assume anything, study, then execute.
What I'm trying to say is "the problem might be right in front of you but you just can't see it".
Happens to me more and more and more.
Good Luck
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Yeah you are right ThrottleJunky. I figured I was going to let it sit until the spring comes in, and then pretty much unassemble everything and start from scratch on the outside of the case with clutch side parts.
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New spring didn't fix it. I took a quick video, my nephew is shifting on the other side and I was holding the assembly in (like the cover would do). You can see after second gear he has to bump the shift lever down to get the mechanism to to return to shift up again. Only on upshifts does it stick, downshifting is beautiful. I guess I might just order a new gear change mechanism because everything else is new including the shift lever on the other side.
Any ideas? Please tell me what I am doing wrong because I am about to just make the bike a two speed, LOL.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f190/SVCoop/Bikes/KX60/th_MVI_6586.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f190/SVCoop/Bikes/KX60/?action=view¤t=MVI_6586.mp4)
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have just been looking at a parts diagram of this and it seems to show a different assembly order. take a look at parts 13236 and 13168 . i dont know how accurate this is
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I'm just wondering if the pawl,& pins aren't just warn or the gap in the pawl has just been worn/spread too far.
When I got my 600 the shifter was wrapped 180 deg,and there were dogs were broken off third gear etc. After replacing the gear and some bushings I still couldn't get the dab gum thing to shift correctly... until I replaced the pawl.
It certainly didn't appear bad or bent. The bike has been running great now for five years. I started replacing the cheapest parts first. I'm not sayin' it couldn't be a combination of everything being worn enough to cause the trouble,
However that's what was going on with mine. I think you said you've checked all the components and they individually
were O.K. Could it be collectively there is just too much wear?
Like I said, I just started replacing the shift assy, The bike was old and I figured it would be tha last time I would have to mess with it.
Tuck\o/
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Great Scott Watson!
Good Eye Johnny... It would appear they are swapped in the photo :-o
\o/
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How did I not notice that? See that's why I wanted to post that video, because another set of eyes is all it takes sometimes. I have had that bike apart 3 times now and it never hit me to check that order of those parts. Maybe it is wrong, I'm going out to try that now.
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Not it, those parts are assembled xactly like the manual shows them (I have an OEM service manual). I think I am just going to spend the $30 and buy the new mechanism. We never rode the bike before so it could have always been like that.
UPDATE: I used jonny's old advice and took it up in the field and it is now shifting flawlessly. So that return spring was the problem. Nick rode and I got some pics and video I will post up. He did awesome, not one stall and it was his first time ever with a clutch.
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Good news indeed!,
Sounds like another little Brudda' gonna be burning some pre-mix :-D
Tuck\o/
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ride it ,the good old remedie. it usual gose 1 way or the other, either sorts it or destroys it lol. pleased you got it sorted i was starting to lose sleep over it. i saw the other thread, great pics. i thinks hes got alot of fun ahead
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I really appreciate how the help and ideas jonny500. If you wasn't for your original idea of just ride I would probably have kicked it off the stand yesterday LOL :-D .
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Bump..........for ChrisMets
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I just saw you posted my name here hahah
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Coop,
Way ta go.
I hope Nick grows up to be the next Bob Hannah.
That guy was amazing
As I am sure your nephew is too.
Great job!!!!!!