KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: Danger4u2 on May 17, 2010, 12:52:25 AM
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Post your questions/answers here.
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This question is for a 125.
When the engine on my bike is running, there is a tapping noise that comes from the crank area. It could be from the clutch or the transmission. I am not sure what it is. It does it when the bike is in neutral and in gear. The tapping increases with engine speed. It is a very light sounding tap but it is still there. Sometimes it is louder than others. The best way i could describe it would be to take and run the plastic handle of your toothbrush across the rollers on your chain fairly quickly. The noise is not coming from the cylinder. I don't know if this is normal transmission noise or if there is a problem.
There is no slipping in the clutch. I had the clutch apart about a year ago and everything in there looked like it was just out of the shop. The gears do not grind when shifting and the bike shifts very smoothly. there is no performance issues, i just want to be proactive on a possible future problem. I don't know if some bearing is wearing out or something.
Any ideas?
thanks,
Stang
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Does your kick idler gear still have a bushing in it? The '87 I got had lost it's bushing and the snap ring that retained it to the end of the output shaft. It did a bang-up job on the back of the clutch basket!
That's all I can think of that would make a very noticable racket. :?
torch
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hey guys i have a question
will a kx250 kick starter fit on a 97 500 engine are the shafts the same size :?
also the engine is in a 2000 kx250 frame
thanks for any help JM
hey torch thanks
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No, different shaft size.
torch
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This question is for a 125.
When the engine on my bike is running, there is a tapping noise that comes from the crank area. It could be from the clutch or the transmission. I am not sure what it is. It does it when the bike is in neutral and in gear. The tapping increases with engine speed. It is a very light sounding tap but it is still there. Sometimes it is louder than others. The best way i could describe it would be to take and run the plastic handle of your toothbrush across the rollers on your chain fairly quickly. The noise is not coming from the cylinder. I don't know if this is normal transmission noise or if there is a problem.
There is no slipping in the clutch. I had the clutch apart about a year ago and everything in there looked like it was just out of the shop. The gears do not grind when shifting and the bike shifts very smoothly. there is no performance issues, i just want to be proactive on a possible future problem. I don't know if some bearing is wearing out or something.
\
I had a ktm 105 making a noise like that. I was afraid I had a piston skirt noise or crank bearing problem. Turned out to be the factory rivots that held the big gear to the clutch basket. It was the loudest at a low idle.
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Does your kick idler gear still have a bushing in it? The '87 I got had lost it's bushing and the snap ring that retained it to the end of the output shaft. It did a bang-up job on the back of the clutch basket!
That's all I can think of that would make a very noticable racket. :?
torch
How do i check to see if the bushing is still in there? What does it look like? Can you show me what it is with a parts diagram or picture?
I had a ktm 105 making a noise like that. I was afraid I had a piston skirt noise or crank bearing problem. Turned out to be the factory rivots that held the big gear to the clutch basket. It was the loudest at a low idle.
Was this a problem that you fixed or needed to fix, and if so, how do i check for it and fix it?
Thanks guys. I appreciate it.
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Either way, you will have to pull the cover. It almost always tears the gasket, if you don't have an extra to throw on there. There is a white plastic collar that you should be able to see wrapped around the kick shaft. The rivots that I refer to are on the backside of the clutch basket. They hold the gear to the basket, which would pulling the whole basket. I would tyr to see if there is any play in it front to back rotation and in and out from the center case. I mean to say check for slop in the clutch basket. I'm not 100% sure you would be able to see the slack that makes a noise or not. I installed a hinson basket and new cushoins and the noise was gone. It took a long time to track it down. A owners manual is a must, if you are going to tear it down.
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I have a clymer manual on the bike, so i should be good as long as it does not require special tools or a press.
I had the cover off previously without tearing the gasket so I'll try to be careful.
What are the rivots rubbing against to make the noise?
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Every KX bike I've had from 80cc to 500 has made "that noise" for the life of the bike.
Kawasaki 2 stroke motors sound like nuts and bolts jumbling inside when running perfectly normal. I'm sure some other KX or KDX owners can agree on that.
If there isn't any (out of spec) play in any of the major components and no performance issues, then run it hard...
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Either way, you will have to pull the cover. It almost always tears the gasket, if you don't have an extra to throw on there. There is a white plastic collar that you should be able to see wrapped around the kick shaft. The rivots that I refer to are on the backside of the clutch basket. They hold the gear to the basket, which would pulling the whole basket. I would tyr to see if there is any play in it front to back rotation and in and out from the center case. I mean to say check for slop in the clutch basket. I'm not 100% sure you would be able to see the slack that makes a noise or not. I installed a hinson basket and new cushoins and the noise was gone. It took a long time to track it down. A owners manual is a must, if you are going to tear it down.
I was able to look through the oil plug at the kick start gear and i could see the white bushing was still in tact. I was also able to put the bike in gear and turn the back tire to feel for the tap. I don't believe it is coming from the clutch or the right side of the motor. I think it is coming from the left side. That is where i could feel the tap while the engine was running. I could feel it through the flywheel cover.
Every KX bike I've had from 80cc to 500 has made "that noise" for the life of the bike.
Kawasaki 2 stroke motors sound like nuts and bolts jumbling inside when running perfectly normal. I'm sure some other KX or KDX owners can agree on that.
If there isn't any (out of spec) play in any of the major components and no performance issues, then run it hard...
This sounds fair. I assumed it could be the case, but just to be on the safe side, can anyone else confirm this? With no performance issues, i was tempted to leave it alone.
thanks.
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I was able to turn the transmission drive gear in neutral to hear the tap. I checked under the stator cover and made sure it wasn't coming from there. I think you may be right about the clutch basket rubbing hillclimb. It makes the noise if the clutch has just a slight drag. It does it if you put a little pressure on the shift lever to just about enable the bike into 1st gear but yet keep it in neutral. If you get the bike completely in the middle of neutral the noise goes away. Will the basket rubbing as soft as it is cause damage or just noise? IOW did your ktm have any damage from it?
Another question, when you take out the spacer behind the drive sprocket, if oil is coming out, does that mean the seal is bad. Something in there is leaking oil onto the chain and my guess is the seal, but i was wondering if oil would come out without the spacer in there even if the seal was good.
Thanks
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The rivots did not rub anything. They just gave some slop between the big plate and the back of the clutch baket. This gave it some room to move while rotating slow. I kinda know what you're saying about noisy kx's at idle. The two stroke's sound idling is weird. For one you have the exhaust sound, but you can also make out the cylinder and piston purring. And the they both seem to be doing a different pattern. Its the New Noises that are the bad ones. Sounds like something different than what I had. Mine made the noise bad at a slow idle, but was hardly noticeable at a fast idle and past that, or while in gear. Smart idea looking in the oil fill hole for the white collar, but I did have one break, but looked good until I finally removed it. 2 strokes are supposed to be a simple design, but it never seems easy to diagnose minor issues. you have to be ready to work on them, alot. Definately report what you find. You will likely save someone some trial and error with the same issue.
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a lot of my bikes symptoms sound like what yours did. The noise is definitely the loudest at idle and then at a fast idle it gets quieter and when riding, it is possibly gone, but i figured i just couldn't hear it due to the other noises like the exhaust. I have a feeling it is something similar to your deal. I checked again and the noise is definitely coming right around the back of the clutch area.
Also, do you know about that drive sprocket leak I mentioned?
Another question, when you take out the spacer behind the drive sprocket, if oil is coming out, does that mean the seal is bad. Something in there is leaking oil onto the chain and my guess is the seal, but i was wondering if oil would come out without the spacer in there even if the seal was good.
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Does your kick idler gear still have a bushing in it? The '87 I got had lost it's bushing and the snap ring that retained it to the end of the output shaft. It did a bang-up job on the back of the clutch basket!
That's all I can think of that would make a very noticable racket. :?
torch
How do i check to see if the bushing is still in there? What does it look like? Can you show me what it is with a parts diagram or picture?
The idler gear on the left has no bushing, and the one on the right has a bushing. Easy to see here, not so easy to see when things are assembled.
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0708.jpg)
You can also see the marks on the back of the clutch basket from the idler gear flopping around.
If you look at the first pic in this post, the idler gear is the one that you see very little of, between the clutch basket and the kick shaft assembly. If you do pop the right side engine cover to look, you don't need to yank the basket to check the idler gear bushing. All you need to do is pull out the kick shaft assembly, then see if you have a lot of slop in your idler gear. You should not be able to move it up or down, or side to side.
As for the seal and spacer, if you pull out the spacer, it will drool. The spacer is what rides on the seal.
torch
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thanks, that clears things up a bit. i see how the whole mess works.
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I have heard that KDXs have something called the KIPS rattle. Not really sure what it is though. Id imagine that the KXs would make a similar noise since the KIPS valve setup is very similar.
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Well, if the back side of your clutch basket looks like Torche's, then you might want to check your parts breakdown in your manual or online. Looks like your missing a spacer, thrust washer, ect. That artwork is definetly not supposed to be there...
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mustangfury.....
I forgot to mention that my pic is of an '87 KX500. I'm sure your's is set up the same way, just smaller parts.
torch
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This is in regards to the spacer/oil seal question i had earlier. I played around with it a bit and noticed the oil was not leaking out through the seal but around the oring. i replaced the o-ring and it still is leaking. I am thinking maybe the sprocket or spacer or C clip is worn so it does not provide enough pressure to push the spacer against the o-ring to avoid leaking. The sprocket has a lot of play. I put a washer in there to stop some of the play and provide a better fit. My question is, how much play should the drive sprocket have on the drive shaft back and forth and clockwise/counterclockwise? And, should the spacer be turning with the drive sprocket? Mine was not turning all the time with the drive sprocket since it was a loose fit. It turns now with the washer. I just don't want to go running around with the washer if it might hurt something. I will wait for a reply before doing so.
Thanks,
Stang
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I don't have an answer for Stang, but:
My KX5 was leaning up on my old CJ5 idling while I was adjusting the idle screw after installing a fresh jet- a little fat for my altitude, but I sometimes ride much higher elevations than the base. It acted like it was going to die so I "binged" the throttle. Meanwhile, it dropped itself into gear, dug a trench, and died most annoyingly... Now, it is stuck in gear. I don't know what gear as I can't shift, but stuck none-the-less.
Anyone know why or at least have a starting point for me? :?
Thanks,
Tim.
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Stang, I recently noticed my countershaft had alot of countertclockwise/ clockwise play on my 250. Switched to a newer sprocket and most was gone. The notches on the inside had become worn before the teeth on the outside. Weird to me. I think those spacers can wear also, and some sprockets are thinner than others. Somethings going on if you can get a washer behind the sprocket.
Good, I have a yz 125 that likes to stick in gear. It always gets into third, and second some how. You can pull the clutch cover and fix it. I have fixed mine several times with the shifter. easiest way was to ride it in the gear its stuck in, and shift up a couple times, then back down, but it doesn't happen that easy. Most likely the parts inside are in a bind in the open or shifting position. Not sure of the right names of parts or terms, but, if you pull the cover and start playing with it, either the 4 pin'd barrel will be caught half way in a cycle, or the flat metal slider with the springs, is stuck extended, or both. It could be something internal, of course, lets hope not. Its likely something simple.
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I don't have an answer for Stang, but:
My KX5 was leaning up on my old CJ5 idling while I was adjusting the idle screw after installing a fresh jet- a little fat for my altitude, but I sometimes ride much higher elevations than the base. It acted like it was going to die so I "binged" the throttle. Meanwhile, it dropped itself into gear, dug a trench, and died most annoyingly... Now, it is stuck in gear. I don't know what gear as I can't shift, but stuck none-the-less.
Anyone know why or at least have a starting point for me? :?
Thanks,
Tim.
I hate to sound negative but in my experiance it sounds like it gaulded a gear to a shaft. (sorry) :cry:
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I don't have an answer for Stang, but:
My KX5 was leaning up on my old CJ5 idling while I was adjusting the idle screw after installing a fresh jet- a little fat for my altitude, but I sometimes ride much higher elevations than the base. It acted like it was going to die so I "binged" the throttle. Meanwhile, it dropped itself into gear, dug a trench, and died most annoyingly... Now, it is stuck in gear. I don't know what gear as I can't shift, but stuck none-the-less.
Anyone know why or at least have a starting point for me? :?
Thanks,
Tim.
YES!!! Mine did the EXACT same thing, in the EXACT conditions! You will find a seized (5th?) gear on the main shaft.
I talked to an old time Kawi tech about it and he explained to me that when the bike is on its side stand, the gear oil runs to the furthest point away from the gear/shaft that seized. He said he always slightly overfilled the KX500 gear box and NEVER revs one on its side stand...
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I don't have an answer for Stang, but:
My KX5 was leaning up on my old CJ5 idling while I was adjusting the idle screw after installing a fresh jet- a little fat for my altitude, but I sometimes ride much higher elevations than the base. It acted like it was going to die so I "binged" the throttle. Meanwhile, it dropped itself into gear, dug a trench, and died most annoyingly... Now, it is stuck in gear. I don't know what gear as I can't shift, but stuck none-the-less.
Anyone know why or at least have a starting point for me? :?
Thanks,
Tim.
YES!!! Mine did the EXACT same thing, in the EXACT conditions! You will find a seized (5th?) gear on the main shaft.
I talked to an old time Kawi tech about it and he explained to me that when the bike is on its side stand, the gear oil runs to the furthest point away from the gear/shaft that seized. He said he always slightly overfilled the KX500 gear box and NEVER revs one on its side stand...
And just what was your bike doing leaning on my CJ?!! :-P :-D Just kidding. Thanks for the help. If this is the case, what is the fix? That may seem obvious to you guys but I'm not much of a mechanic.
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You split the cases and replace the shaft and gear and while your there you replace the mains and seals at least.
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You split the cases and replace the shaft and gear and while your there you replace the mains and seals at least.
+1. That is what I did. Found a good used trans cluster on fleabay for 100 bucks.
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If it seized to the shaft, I was able to have mine pressed off by my local engine builder. I used the gear, although was never told which gear that seized onto the shaft. Apparently no bushing or anything in there, straight gear to shaft. My question would be - what was in the gearbox? ATF or Oil?
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I had a similar problem last time out riding. I went down fairly hard while going over some fairly large logs. I was in an awkward position, pinned under the bike and a log, and was unable to lift the bike off for several minutes until the next rider came along. I obviously killed the engine after a couple seconds, but it sat laying on its left side, hot, for a few minutes. When I got it lifted up, it felt like it was jammed in two gears. Wouldn't budge at all. Eventually, I got it into 5th gear, so was able to ride back to the truck (about 20 miles away), seriously abusing the clutch to ride tight single track trails in 5th gear at well under 10mph. If I tried shifting down, the transmission locked up solid. Rear wheel would skid even with clutch in. But, once I got onto some more open trails and hit some bigger jumps, it all of a sudden freed up. I've been through the gears hundreds of times since and it feels the same as ever.
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If it seized to the shaft, I was able to have mine pressed off by my local engine builder. I used the gear, although was never told which gear that seized onto the shaft. Apparently no bushing or anything in there, straight gear to shaft. My question would be - what was in the gearbox? ATF or Oil?
After inspection, and this is tough to admit, but not much of anything was in it... I usually run Type F ATF and change after every other ride, but I don't know what happened as there wasn't much in there. It leaks around the drain plug, but shouldn't have been that much. I dunno, I hope it's something simple. This was actually a year or so ago...
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hi i have a 89 kx 500 and i was wondering who you guys reccomend to split/ rebuild the crank and what parts to buy to rebuild it?
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Just went to load my kx5 to go ride carnegie tomarrow and took it for a rip up the street it felt like it was running out of gas. It was lunging and acting funny and now it has no 2nd or third gear. I pulled the clutch cover and the shifter seems like its working properly from what I can tell. Does anyone have an Idea what can cause this. Im assuming Im going to have to split the cases, unless anyone has a better idea. Help is much appreciated.
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If I was not going to do it my self I would have Luke's Racing do it or Mr Crankshaft. Just a rod kit would do and I would just get it from them.
hi i have a 89 kx 500 and i was wondering who you guys reccomend to split/ rebuild the crank and what parts to buy to rebuild it?