KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Steel Frame Conversion (SFC) => Topic started by: Goat on May 16, 2010, 03:06:37 PM
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I stumbled on a 1995 kx250 frame and some engine parts. Selling the engine parts and keeping the frame. I paid $100 for everything. No suspension, tank, seat, plastics, sub frame, or swing arm. Just a bare frame with the right radiator.
Before I get into it too far I would like every ones input that has done one of these builds. What I should and shouldn't do. Never done an engine swap like this on a bike before. A couple quads but those have more room for error. Still debating whether or not I'm using my engine or getting another one. I have extra cases and cylinder to use as the template. It's mainly going to be the winter project but I am going to tinker on it when I have time. Should be starting work in the next couple weeks so that doesn't leave much time for sleep let alone anything else. I'll get some pics of the frame in the next couple days.
So lets have it guys. What should you have done different or What did you try that worked out nice? Open for any ideas.
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Goat,
Just start putting the pieces together and it will all just come easy. It sounds like you know how to use a wrench so it will be a breeze for you!
I would have spent more time and I still will someday to build a better pipe for my conversion. I just put a KX500 pipe inlet welded to a CR500 pipe and then put a BIG dent in it where the water port is on the K5 cylinder. :roll: Lazy :roll:
I just got excited and wanted to finish it so I could ride it. :evil: So if you can try not to do that :wink: (yah right) and just take your time and build it to the best of your abilities. It will come out sweet and you will love it and be proud to know that YOU built that SICK bike! :mrgreen:
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As long as I have something to ride while I'm building it I wont rush through. The excitement will still be there but I can always jump on the k5 and slow myself down and stay focused.
I do have a massively dented PC pipe to cut up and weld to whichever pipe I end up with. I don't remember where but I read that someone used the back half of the 250 pipe with the front half of the 500 pipe and it just kind of bolted on.
I'm not a great welder. Haven't had any welds break on me but they aren't pretty. When I get laid off in the fall I'm probably going to take a welding class at the local trade school. I used to stick weld like a pro but that was 12 years ago. Just got a Lincoln heavy equipment welder 2 summers ago but don't have 220 in the garage so I only played with it a couple times. It does 300 or 350 amp and weighs like 400 pounds. Hopefully moving into a house with a polebarn this summer so I can do some serious work on my truck and bikes this winter.
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hey goat looks like its time to go shopping eBay would be a good start.
your going to need 1994-1998 250 tank,seat,plastic, triple clamps & bearings,foot pegs,shock & link,sub frame,air box & boot,cab holder,rear brake master cyl. and pedal
I think the 500 swingarm is about 1 inch longer then a 250 so you can use a 250 sw-arm and drill out the engine cases or use a 500 sw-arm and weld a bushing in to make the frame holes 15mm i used the bushing out of an old sw-arm strut i opened up frame holes to fit the bushings grind the with and chamfer them and install sw-arm bolt and engine without the sw-arm and tack them and get them tig welded then you will have to make a spacer between the engine and sw-arm i used two grade 8 washers on each side this is to fill the gap from the k5 link mount
use the 250 radiators its work to make the 500 ones fit and you already have one also all new plastic UFO for about $100.00 motosports.com
good luck JM
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Thanks for the info junk man. I wasn't sure what years were the same. Have a friends 92 K2.5 in my garage for complete rebuild and noticed the radiators mounted different but that's all I could tell from looking. I was going to use the 500 swing arm but I'm not sure now. I know a couple people that could make me some nice bushings and do whatever machining I need. Don't exactly want to bore the cases either. I'll take a look at everything and figure out what I'm doin. I have an extra k5 swing arm so that's probably what I'll use. I have 98 k2.5 forks on my k5 now so I could just swap those over if I decide to use my engine. I would like to get another engine. Can never have too many lol.
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Goat,
I have a nice swinger from that 96 I parted out, the rear brake sys., forks, triples, linkage. I will sell very cheap, if you need let me know.
Ryan
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To start off good luck, but about the welding if it was me I would most likely if your useing stick use a 7018 1/32 rod. I dont know if your welder is digital or nob,but if it's nob I would run it at 3 no higher because it might burn to hot. If you can tell me how it comes out I would really like to know. Thanks and good luck with the bike. From the steel city of INDIANA.
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For the welding part, I would recommend a little 110 volt mig, and practice with it. If you know someone with a mig that is a good welder, ask them for tips, and to watch them weld. I would bet that that would be cheaper than a welding course.
Also, skip the flux core and get a bottle of gas. Solid wire with gas (C25) welds so much cleaner, and welds easier.
My current project is in two posts, and it is based off of a '92KX250. I'm sure that there are enough similarities for you to get some ideas.
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,7388.0.html
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,7396.msg57332.html#msg57332
Ask any questions you want. If I don't have a good answer, I'll say so.
torch
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goat if you use the 500 sw-arm you need to use the 500 struts there about 1/2 in. longer then the 250's . its a lot of work grinding down the welds for the sw-arm bushings so if there tig welded it would save you some work for the rest you can mig weld it 110 is what i used
you will also need rear brake pedal and master cyl.
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Thank you all for your help. I'll have to read this a million times so I don't forget anything lol. Had some spare time today so I took my old k5 cases and cylinder and put them together and set it in the frame. Also sorta bolted my extra k5 swing arm on.
First thing I need to do is remove the front motor mounts. Then I can get the template cases in the frame better. I would like removable front mounts but not sure if that would severely weaken the frame by drilling through it.
Last time I checked the welding class was $260 but that was a few years ago. The state will also pay for me to further my education so I wouldn't pay for anything. I should have went this last winter but I was helping my dad fix up his house and building my k5.
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Should I use the 250 or the 500 swingarm? Pros and cons of both would be great. It will mainly be my woods bike but knowing me it will see the dunes as well :-P I like my bikes to sit up kinda high as I'm 6'3" I also like to jump anything I can so the higher the better susp. travel.
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the best thing i can tell anyone doing this is to start with a whole bike. the reason people prt bikes out is they are worth far more in parts. so if you try to part one together it will cost you far more then buying one and selling what you dont need. as for drilling the cases goes you need to get over that. there is not one part of the bike that does not have to be modded in some way to pull this off. As for welding I would find a junk frame to practice on it, frames are super easy to blow holes in. I used a mig to weld mine so it would look factory. You better have your heat and wire speed set right, close wont cut it on this.
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Not sure the swingarm is the same between the 250 and 500, I do know the 02 250 isn't the same as the 500. I think I would keep everything the same if using a 95 250 then use 95 parts.
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I paid $100 for the frame and almost an entire bottom end of the 250 engine. The guy was hurting for money so he was selling all kinds of stuff. I can sell the engine parts and get what I need. I'm also working a lot now so money isn't really an issue. Just trying to put money into my truck, k5 and the 250 build.
I ended up getting a subframe off ebay for $9 and a front hub for $9.50 from the same guy. Just 2 bolt holes striped on the subframe. No biggie.
I do have a spare k5 frame, subframe, and swingarm laying around. Wasn't sure if I wanted to build that into a supermoto or use the swingarm for the 250. That's why I was asking which would be better to use.
If anyone is interested in some cash to make me some bushings for the swinarm pivot bolt let me know. My friends dad sold his shop so now I don't have a place to make them.
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I guess everyone has their own way of doing things. Some people will drive strait down the street to the store and some people will drive all the way around the neighborhood to get to the store. I guess as long as you get to the store that what really counts.
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You better have your heat and wire speed set right, close wont cut it on this.
i would love a new miller with auto-set. you just select the thickness of you material instead of the heat or voltage. then the welder automatically provides the wire speed. im a tard when it comes to setting up a welder and i think even i could weld with the new millers.
http://www.millerwelds.com/swf/swf.php?swf=mm180autoset_550x400.swf (http://www.millerwelds.com/swf/swf.php?swf=mm180autoset_550x400.swf)
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I've read about those welders a month or so ago. They sound idiot proof lol. Just the mig for me. I have a hard time welding with mig. I can arc weld great though.
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Don made a good point.if your frame is a 95, get the appropriate parts and modify them from there.if you dont know the interchangerbility of the 250 yrs, it will make life a lot easier in the long run.BDI's peri frame 500 is the dogs danglers, so if he says you'll need to mod everything, I'd believe him.....As long as your ready for the long haul, go for it......Kman.
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Thank you very much everyone. Bike is on hold for a while. In the process of finding a new place to live. Hopefully with a bigger garage and a 220 outlet for my Lincoln stick welder from the 60's :-D
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Been thinking about this project a lot lately. I have had plenty of seat time on my K5 and it still feels like a tank to me. So I want to tear it down and put it in the 250 frame before I build another quad with it lol.
Things I need to know are: What year/brand CR5 pipes to use? What year parts interchange with 95 KX250? Do I need a different intake boot to line the carb with the airbox?
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Been reading up on the subject a lot for my own upcoming conversion. Seems the '89-up cr5 pipe is the one to use. The rest, ? Wanting to use my k5 swing arm, would rather have the extra length (small as it is) and somehow not drilling out my engine makes me feel better. You ever decide on that issue?
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Well, after ripping both bikes apart last night, length issue is moot, but the k5's sa is noticeably lighter than the 01 250's is
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goat what 250 parts do you have. If you use a 95 frame you will have to use 94-98 body parts tank plastic seat etc. if your going to use all the 500 parts you can i can list the 250 parts you will need
note i used a 2000 frame and was going to use 98 body parts they don't interchange
using 500 swing arm its no big deal if you can weld good or have a new swing arm bolt and two shouldered washers made at a machine shop. the swing arm bolt is almost to short if you make a longer bolt you can use two stepped washers and bolt it all together the next thing you have to do is make two spacers for between the engine and swing arm ( i use two grade 8 washers on each side) the 500 link mounts between the engine and swing arm so you will have to fill in the gap. I used the stock 250 link but used my 500 struts.the 500 struts are 1/2 longer than the 250's this will give you correct ride height and the last thing i used 250 spring i tried my 500 spring way to stiff
hope this helps out JM
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Thanks Junk Man.
I didn't do any cutting yet. Tried to fit what few parts I do have and found out quite a few parts I got with the frame are not for that frame. Rear shock in perfect condition is the exact same as the one on my 500 and will not fit in between the upper mounting tabs. Linkage is identical to my 91 KDX and will not fit. So this project is turning into a bust.
I'm now thinking about buying a 2000ish + complete 250 for the donor and sell the 250 engine or build another quad with it. Not sure. Don't have the kind of cash I need for the project at the moment. Also looking to move a couple hours south to find a better job as well.
If anyone is interested I could package the frame, and subframe up and ship them. Make me an offer.
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Goat if you have a downer makes things a lot easier maybe one day JM
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Sorry to hear your not going through with it but I ran into some money draining issues on mine as well.
I just need to get through this summer and I should be able to give it a go again.
Getting a complete bike with a blown engine is the way to go.
So far I've made a few bucks on my project selling what I didn't need from both bikes.
In the end it will cost me some because of the engine work I'm having done but still it is by far the least expensive way to go.
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Eventually I'll build one. Hopefully next winter. My 500 is still running great and the kdx quad is holding up to my beatings so at least I have stuff to ride.
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You'll do it.
My fab skills are not very good but I have done pretty good so far.
After seeing what you have done I know you will have no issues.
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Thanks Mike. I'll be contacting you as soon as I get back to work. Hopefully in the next couple weeks.
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You'll do it.
My fab skills are not very good but I have done pretty good so far.
After seeing what you have done I know you will have no issues.
+1^
so far with mine going fairly easy (minus bearing issues) with a touch of ingenuity an tool know-how (not that I'm real far into it). Engineering degree not required...