KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Steel Frame Conversion (SFC) => Topic started by: cutting torch on April 23, 2010, 02:33:12 PM
-
The PF is for perimeter frame, since I could build a stock KX500 and it would be an SF. :-D
I finally got to the point where I could start this project.
The chassis is a '92 KX250 which was my primary ride for over a dozen years. I scored an '08 KLX450 front end for it on Ebay. The engine donor bike was an '87 KX500, but I have since gotten enough stuff to make the engine an '89 to '04.
This bike will be used for trails, not MX, and since I am about a 7/8 scale man, I will mod the clutch cover for a Rekluse Pro.
Enough with the background. I started the basic engine mounting a few days ago. I bored for the swingarm bolt as a starting point to get a baseline. Obviously, the front mounts were not even close:
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0651.jpg)
Before and after them being cut off:
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0652.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0653.jpg)
The mockup before welding:
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0654-1.jpg)
After the welding:
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0655-1.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0656-1.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0657-1.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0658-1.jpg)
The lower mount was so close to where it needed to be that I decided that it was a waste of time to try to move it like I did the front mount. I could have left it alone and used an 8mm bolt, or shave it a bit oval (.020") to use a 10mm bolt. I went with the ten.
I have learned a bunch from this site, and now is the time for me to start contributing! Any questions for me will be answered to the best of my knowledge. Any suggestions that I get are welcome as well!
torch
-
COOL!!!! 8-) 8-) 8-)
-
looks like your off to a good start. :-D
-
Ok just hang on a minute while I go and get the popcorn :wink:. I will be watching this one closely.
?and since I am about a 7/8 scale man? (is this short :?) soz im in Australia and we have only metric system jokes hehehehe
Also Rekluse Pro......I assume this is the Z-Start pro with full clutch override at all rpm?
Please classify what parts of what clutch kit will be needed to do this, or is there one complete kit that will fit for KX500 after the cover mod has been done to use the Relkuse Z-start Pro?
Don?t mean to bust your balls bud, just I would really like to see the Z-start Pro work. Its just that I have read that only the Z-start has been used in the past and even this was a miss match of parts from I think the DRZ400 kit???
Posted by gortex http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,6250.15.html
?To use the Rekluse - you use the stock kx500 clutch, and buy the Rekluse start for the Drz400/Klx400. These bikes use the same plates etc as the kx500.
The biggest problem is you need an extra 10mm of space to fit it in, that's one of the reasons for my custom clutch cover.
Hope this helps?.
Hope to see many pics of this conversion and good luck
Cheers :-)
Dan
-
The Z-Start pro is my goal.
The 7/8 scale thing has two parts to it:
1) So many people joke about someone being less of a man if they use an auto clutch, and
2) At 5'4" (162cm) and 140 pounds (62kg), I AM less than your average man, at least in the sence that I take up less space. :-D
torch
-
2) At 5'4" (162cm) and 140 pounds (62kg), I AM less than your average man, at least in the sence that I take up less space. :-D
torch
Less weight = faster acceleration. Less height = Less wind resistance.
-
2) At 5'4" (162cm) and 140 pounds (62kg), I AM less than your average man, at least in the sence that I take up less space. :-D
torch
Less weight = faster acceleration. Less height = Less wind resistance.
There are perks to being a little runt!
However, the penalty that happens most often is falling over at a dead stop when you can't seem to find the ground with your foot. :-D
torch
-
hay mate am also doing a 1992 sf conversion with a1989 kx 500 motor.Ive stuck the motor in its a very tight fit just got to change carb boot.Theres not much room between the frame and shock so am hoping there wont be any restrictions :-D
-
I admire the enginuity and projects guys do on this site and share their info. Its cool.
Question on the Rekluse though. Having talked to a lot of desert racers from the 1990's who ran 500's. Many have said the Rekluse is a little hard on the tranny. Due to the TQ the engine puts out. Often wondered about running one. Ride with a lot of guys who use them in other brands of bikes. I myself like a standard clutch. But if I rode in the woods a lot my thinking would probably change.
-
. The engine donor bike was an '87 KX500, but I have since gotten enough stuff to make the engine an '89 to '04.
How do you get enough stuff to make the engine an 89 to 04? did you get newer cases? if not it would be very difficult to make 87 cases fit the 89 cylinder.
-
hay mate am also doing a 1992 sf conversion with a1989 kx 500 motor.Ive stuck the motor in its a very tight fit just got to change carb boot.Theres not much room between the frame and shock so am hoping there wont be any restrictions :-D
I'm sure that's one of those snags that I'll run into down the road, along with many others I'm sure..... :|
torch
-
I admire the enginuity and projects guys do on this site and share their info. Its cool.
Question on the Rekluse though. Having talked to a lot of desert racers from the 1990's who ran 500's. Many have said the Rekluse is a little hard on the tranny. Due to the TQ the engine puts out. Often wondered about running one. Ride with a lot of guys who use them in other brands of bikes. I myself like a standard clutch. But if I rode in the woods a lot my thinking would probably change.
I would like to hear those guys give a real world explanation of how an auto clutch could hurt the tranny. I would bet that they couldn't!
The auto slips the clutch as the engine comes up to the full engagement rpm of the clutch, after full engagement rpm, it is fully engaged (no slippage). The difference is that the auto does the slipping much more consistently and predictably than your left hand. The Rekluse site explains it in much more detail.
I'm wondering if the guys that told you this were under the impression that the auto clutch works like a torque converter in an automatic transmission. It does not.
You CAN ruin your clutch with one, though. You won't if you ride in the right gear for the speed you are going, which I would guess that 99.9% of us already know how to do! :-D
torch
-
. The engine donor bike was an '87 KX500, but I have since gotten enough stuff to make the engine an '89 to '04.
How do you get enough stuff to make the engine an 89 to 04? did you get newer cases? if not it would be very difficult to make 87 cases fit the 89 cylinder.
I got cases, jug, and head.
The '94 jug I have slides right onto the '87 cases, however, there is no provision on the older case for the PV idler gear on the newer jug. No huge deal to weld up and machine that area, but my '87 cases needed more work than just that as far as welding repairs, so I just decided it was easier to get newer cases.
After I got the jug, I learned that there was more difference between the old and new head than just the bolt-on water outlet..... The bolt pattern! DOH!!
Oh, well. I now have a new head that is currently being molested. :evil:
torch
-
Now you see it:
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0664.jpg)
Now you don't:
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0669-1.jpg)
How I got there:
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0665.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0666-1.jpg)
The above work was the roughing in part, and I got to the after part with a die grinder. I'm going to sand blast the area soon to try to make it look like the as-cast surface of the rest of the head. My goal is to make it look like the factory cast it that way (without the rear headstay).
torch
-
I am a little confused to why you have to use a front headstay? Is it so you can get the engine in and out of the frame with the head still on? is it just because that is how the frame was set up for the 250 two strokes? Is it because the bottom rear of the fuel tank will not allow the use of the rear mount headstay? I would think that it would be much easier to just fab a mounting location for the rear mount. On my KXF 250-500 conversion I just moved the rear headstay mount on the frame.
Looks good though
-
I am a little confused to why you have to use a front headstay? I hope I can help with that! Is it so you can get the engine in and out of the frame with the head still on? No. is it just because that is how the frame was set up for the 250 two strokes? Yes. Is it because the bottom rear of the fuel tank will not allow the use of the rear mount headstay? Yes. I would think that it would be much easier to just fab a mounting location for the rear mount. Not for my frame! On my KXF 250-500 conversion I just moved the rear headstay mount on the frame. I hope you posted a pic!
Looks good though
I did it this way to retain the front headstay mounts on my KX 250 frame, and also to help minimize the modification of the fuel tank. I don't want to loose any more fuel capacity than I have to.
torch
-
Playground sand worked good!
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0674-1.jpg)
torch
-
Now I know what you meant, ZETT.
My tank hangs a lot lower in the frame, since a 250 two stroke has a much shorter jug and head than a 250F.
I'll get a pic later today.
torch
-
The tank still needs to go down about 1/2 to 3/4 inch, and it is sitting on the head right now. It was much worse with the headstay there. I might still need a shorty plug, too.
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0677-1.jpg)
torch
-
Torch that is a work of art mate, well done :wink:
Rekluse Z-Start pro would be awesome as you will have the full manual override at all rpm's with the clutch. This thing will be a weapon once you have all these mods complete, keep the pics coming
Any issues with excess vibration in these frames? are you going to use any rubber in your mounting?
cheers
Dan
-
Torch,
use the shorty plug, even then you will probably have to push the tank up a bit to get clearance. If you use your heat gun, and heat a large area you can form the tank around the head so you have clearance. I used a piece of large pipe and a rubber strap, heated it, formed it how I wanted it, then used the rubber strap to hold the plastic till it cooled.
Zett, the 250F was alot cleaner at the rear of the head, but in the end the 250 2t was easier to do than the 250f.
-
Zett, the 250F was alot cleaner at the rear of the head, but in the end the 250 2t was easier to do than the 250f.
Man, I don't know....It seems to me that the 250f is the easy'er one to do.
Easy headstay mod
No swingarm mods
Very little gas tank mod
And it looks like the tank hangs so low on the 2 strokes that it will need some modification to clear the carb,
also by using the K5 cradle I was able to keep the removable front motor mounts. Makes getting the engine in and out pretty easy (seems like I done it a hundred times now)
Keep up the GOOD work. I love these projects!!!
ZETT
-
Torch that is a work of art mate, well done :wink:
Rekluse Z-Start pro would be awesome as you will have the full manual override at all rpm's with the clutch. This thing will be a weapon once you have all these mods complete, keep the pics coming
Any issues with excess vibration in these frames? are you going to use any rubber in your mounting?
cheers
Dan
Thank you! I have no idea on the vibes, maybe someone else knows the answer to that one. I won't use rubber to mount the engine. I asked, here I think, whether the frame helped make the engine more rigid, or if the engine made the frame more rigid. I was informed that the engine is basicly a 60 pound frame brace.
torch
-
Torch,
use the shorty plug, even then you will probably have to push the tank up a bit to get clearance. If you use your heat gun, and heat a large area you can form the tank around the head so you have clearance. I used a piece of large pipe and a rubber strap, heated it, formed it how I wanted it, then used the rubber strap to hold the plastic till it cooled.
Good idea for the tank! How much clearance do you think it should have? I think a half inch should do it.
torch
-
looks good torch. :-o Reckon the vibes shouldnt be that bad, comparde to the af.
-
Torch,
use the shorty plug, even then you will probably have to push the tank up a bit to get clearance. If you use your heat gun, and heat a large area you can form the tank around the head so you have clearance. I used a piece of large pipe and a rubber strap, heated it, formed it how I wanted it, then used the rubber strap to hold the plastic till it cooled.
Good idea for the tank! How much clearance do you think it should have? I think a half inch should do it.
torch
If you can get a half inch that would be great. Just remember to do a fairly large area and go slowly and you'll be good.
-
This was from Team Green mechanics and a few key guys at Pro Circuit. Said the trannys had problems when using those clutches. This was back in the 1998-2002 era they made those statements.
I view the auto clutches as this. Makes your bike more like a kids bike. If someone was handicapped and couldn't run a clutch lever. Thats fine. I prefer a clutch. Thats just me though. And want the bike to require a lot of user input for control.
Its nice to have options with technology. Just doesn't mean the different setups are desired or needed by all.
-
This was from Team Green mechanics and a few key guys at Pro Circuit. Said the trannys had problems when using those clutches. This was back in the 1998-2002 era they made those statements.
I view the auto clutches as this. Makes your bike more like a kids bike. If someone was handicapped and couldn't run a clutch lever. Thats fine. I prefer a clutch. Thats just me though. And want the bike to require a lot of user input for control.
Its nice to have options with technology. Just doesn't mean the different setups are desired or needed by all.
Not only are you calling me handicapped in my own thread, but you still can't explain how an auto clutch can hurt the tranny. I don't care who you heard say whatever, they sound just like you: trashing on a product to make themselves feel superior. You did that with your handicapped reference.
I invite you to explain to me exactly how an auto clutch can hurt a tranny. If you can't, I invite you to leave my thread.
torch
-
If it released like a hand clutch I don't see how it would hurt the trans. If it went to 1000 rpm and instantly went to engage I could see that as a problem but you would see the front wheel in the air. I like the hand clutch. I'm in the wrong gear all the time on my automatic 250ES Big Red Honda 3 wheeler.
I am handicapped and I ride with a guy that was born missing his index, middle finger and toes on the left side.
ToomanyKaws meant no disrespect from what I read.
On the other hand I don't transport my bikes in gear because I think it is bad on the transmission.
-
In regards to the Auto clutch?.?each to their own?
IMHO: They are a fantastic bit of kit especially when the going gets rough and tough. They have the ability engage, disengage and slip with a precise & controlled amount of pressure all the time every time. This is far better than any human hand could do in the nastiest of terrain due to the bumping and thrashing that the bike does in these circumstances. It inspires confidence to stand rather than sit, I know that once I am standing on a rutted out hill climb my left hand is purely there to stop me from flying off the back hehehehe (what clutch? :lol:)
You modulate the engagement pressure and speed by how hard you twist the throttle at low rpm, once engaged it is locked on as a normal clutch of not harder depending on the weight of the balls. The quicker you pull the harder the balls fly out up the ramps and the harder it clamps on the clutch pack. The only diff really is at low rpm where it has the ability to slip near idle, it then progressively engages up to about 1200 ish rpm untill it is fully locked, basically what you would do normally anyway on a stand still take off with a manual clutch. You would think that the big K5?s gearbox could handle some low rpm slippage and probably no more punishment than a precision fanning or quick stab of standard clutch lever. If anything it doesn?t allow you to stab at the clutch too violently and blip it too hard on the Tranny.
The worst thing would be the slipping of the clutch pack if you are in too higher gear. This situation would actually limit the amount of torque given to the tranny by the slipping of the clutch pack. In this situation the tranny would be protected but the shelf life of the clutch pack will surely be diminished.
BTW I?m with Danger on that one; I don?t think he meant any disrespect??.but ?kids bike? :-o :-o hehehehe that was a close call.
Hope you have the goods to get the Rekluse Z-Start pro going mate (bring on the best of both worlds I say with full manual override when needed one minute and ?Kids bike? the next :wink: )
Cheers
Dan
-
I got the tank done. At least I hope so, since I don't know what else will get in the way.
I used a heat gun to get it to about 250 degrees, then used my drill press as an arbor press with a bungee cord to hold it. The thing between the drill press and the tank is the ball from a 2 1/2 inch valve.
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0684.jpg)
This is the clearance I got:
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0685.jpg)
It's not the 1/2 inch I wanted, but it looks good to me.
torch
-
Very innovative idea, good work.
-
I did more stuff today. I finally started tearing down the chassis donor bike:
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0686.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0687.jpg)
I trial fitted the rad valve, carb, airbox, and subframe. All of it fit like the factory made it!
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0691.jpg)
torch
-
I did other things today as well, but they are in a different thread:
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,7396.msg57047/topicseen.html#new
torch
-
Very sweet Torch. The one thing I would suggest looking into is the Revloc as opposed to the Rekluse. I know three people (one of which is a K5) that have it and have had zero issues and love it to death. All three of them had the Rekluse pro prior to this; they said it?s hands down better. Look into the Dyna Ring http://www.revloc.com/dirt/dyna-ring.html You still have 100% use of the clutch if you ever have the urge to grab & utilize it ;-)
Oh, and it's cheaper too; http://www.revloc.com/dirt.html
No get her finished so we can get out and twist a grip!
B-
-
RM this is freaky man???? I saw this thing tonight in my travels and came here tonight to post that very link and you beat me to it.
One of the biggest coincidences I have ever experienced hehehehehe.
Yeah torch check it out, seeing as though Revloc know their way around a K5 already they may be able to accommodate you. After briefly checking out this link and others, there is not much out about these, so early days yet on the Dyna Ring. The vid over lay didn?t inspire too much confidence hehehe but I am sure it is a good product. I would be very keen to find out just how it works and if it has the same clamping pressure as other Auto clutches on the market especially for the big K5.
Other than that it is hard to fault with that bump starting option.
Keep up the good work bud
Cheers
Dan
P.S
RM did I mention that this was freaky :evil:?
-
Thanks for the link, RM.
Since I live close to Revloc, I went over to thier place today to have a look at the dyna ring. I talked to Alan, who I assume is the proprieter of Revloc.
The dyna ring is basicly a thick friction plate with all the balls inside of it. When you spin it, it gets thicker and engages your clutch. Normal adjustment for it is to have your clutch cable adjusted pretty tight, to hold the pressure plate off of the clutch pack to get a certain amount of clearance. When you spin up the dyna ring, it takes up that clearance and engages the clutch.
In order to bump start, you have to loosen your clutch cable so it lets your pressure plate clamp down on the pack.
Pretty simple, really.
I also found out that the regular auto clutch they make works just like the Rekluse pro, with all of the same adjustability. And, since the KX500 was the first bike that Revloc made the auto clutch for, they are available. They also fit under the stock clutch cover!
torch
-
Oh yea, I forgot to mention they're in our back yard ;-) I just ordered the Dyna Ring myself. Can't wait!
WRX, yea that is freaky! Great minds think alike....
Thanks for the link, RM.
Since I live close to Revloc, I went over to thier place today to have a look at the dyna ring. I talked to Alan, who I assume is the proprieter of Revloc.
The dyna ring is basicly a thick friction plate with all the balls inside of it. When you spin it, it gets thicker and engages your clutch. Normal adjustment for it is to have your clutch cable adjusted pretty tight, to hold the pressure plate off of the clutch pack to get a certain amount of clearance. When you spin up the dyna ring, it takes up that clearance and engages the clutch.
In order to bump start, you have to loosen your clutch cable so it lets your pressure plate clamp down on the pack.
Pretty simple, really.
I also found out that the regular auto clutch they make works just like the Rekluse pro, with all of the same adjustability. And, since the KX500 was the first bike that Revloc made the auto clutch for, they are available. They also fit under the stock clutch cover!
torch
-
Oh yea, I forgot to mention they're in our back yard ;-) I just ordered the Dyna Ring myself. Can't wait!
WRX, yea that is freaky! Great minds think alike....
I got to eye-breed one today. Nice stuff!
Speaking of freaky, small world kind of stuff.... I finally figured out why I thought I knew you. You were going to go on a ride with me and others from TT at 717, but you couldn't make it.
torch
-
Oh yea, I forgot to mention they're in our back yard ;-) I just ordered the Dyna Ring myself. Can't wait!
WRX, yea that is freaky! Great minds think alike....
I got to eye-breed one today. Nice stuff!
Speaking of freaky, small world kind of stuff.... I finally figured out why I thought I knew you. You were going to go on a ride with me and others from TT at 717, but you couldn't make it.
torch
Ha, yep, that'd be me. I forget what came up, but I'm sure it had to do with either the wife, or the in-laws....
-
For some reason, I thought it had to do with your (non-Kawasaki) bike! :-D
torch
-
For some reason, I thought it had to do with your (non-Kawasaki) bike! :-D
torch
Could have been this; (http://lh6.ggpht.com/_kFPBHF1IuJE/SfojIondy0I/AAAAAAAAA8g/LbU_SweMpSI/9b4a194600.jpg)
This;(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_kFPBHF1IuJE/Svc-z-S98xI/AAAAAAAACaw/ov0w1Lnf8xY/s912/Aprilia_SXV_launch_Sicily%2520051r.jpg)
This;(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_kFPBHF1IuJE/Sp_6gDJKYbI/AAAAAAAACPo/0wd85oFcP2E/s912/rotator.jpg)
This;(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_kFPBHF1IuJE/STm4hPtePUI/AAAAAAAAAP8/SmwN_Edboww/s800/P7120243.JPG)
One of these;(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_kFPBHF1IuJE/ShLcAksqKgI/AAAAAAAABCg/XyCbqhChowA/s800/P5190003.JPG)
This;(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_kFPBHF1IuJE/SlUS--DGSLI/AAAAAAAABxE/Xd_amAR711k/s800/P7050205.JPG)
This (in middle);(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_kFPBHF1IuJE/SMcaaQ4pz-I/AAAAAAAAADU/UsjuNEBJzcg/s800/P7120233.JPG)
But not this ;-)
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_kFPBHF1IuJE/S0P04Rktv1I/AAAAAAAACm4/_XVFWu76vJE/s800/P1040143.JPG)
-
But not this ;-)
Too bad you couldn't stay on that one long enough for a pic! :-D
torch
-
I'm done with the decomp mod. Thanks to Larry for selling me a decomp valve (beautifully reworked, I might add).
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0710.jpg)
I also found the perfect blast media to match the factory finish. I don't know where to buy it yet, but it is glass bead that is used with traffic paint stripes.
torch
-
Looking great. Watching closely so when I get the parts and time I can build mine. Started work today so absolutely no time now. 12-16 hour days til further notice.
-
torch how is your bike coming along
JM
-
It's coming, but slowing down a bit. I just got JFAB's headstay, so I'll be adding that part to this write-up soon. Right now, I don't even know if it will work. It won't go over the head studs with the engine bolted into the frame. I'll have to shift some things around and see how it goes.
I just got home tonight from a 5 day riding trip to see that the headstay had arrived. I tried to look at fit, and it is not going onto the head as things sit right now. I started to take things apart to see if I could wiggle it in there, but I stopped. I need to relax a bit, wash my grubby self, and go to bed. I don't need to work on it now.
torch
-
How important is it to use a headstay? What would happen if you just used the three attachment points on the cases? Does the chassis flex too much without it, or do the lower mount holes wear? Parts cracking?
-
I was looking at the welded mount and it looked like it would hit the frame
but the D.I.Y kit could work. will the base plate fit the head ? I copied BDI headstay
it picks up five studs good idea
well good luck JM
-
When looking at the left side, the counter sprocket turns counter clock wise and the engine wants to turn clock wise. The head stay is the main component stopping/holding the engine in place. You can't imagine how much engineering went into the KX500.
If it came stock on the bike, it's there for a reason. They only added items that make the bike fast and/or win races. Every thing left over they sold to Suzuki.
-
Unfortunately, they never added a perimeter frame. :x
torch
-
I was looking at the welded mount and it looked like it would hit the frame
but the D.I.Y kit could work. will the base plate fit the head ? I copied BDI headstay
it picks up five studs good idea
well good luck JM
Well, it does hit the frame:
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0741-1.jpg)
That is with the motor on just the bottom mount bolt, and tilted back. As you can see, the front mount is not aligned.
On another note, the headstay fits over the studs like a glove. It's a nice piece, but it just won't work on a '92 frame. The mount bolt just needs to be higher and more rearward.
I'll need to talk to Jfab.
torch
-
torch if you swap it with the kit (non welded) for 19.95 and build off it
see if they will send some extra plate (scraps)
I think Kawasaki was going to discontinue the kx500 so why update it they made good money selling a 80's frame with 90's forks until 2004
-
Your project looks good. Greatest thing about this site is everyone sharing info, ideas and the how, where and what they went through to finish a project. Wasn't making fun of you or anyone else with an Auto clutch. Was just trying to make the point that with technology, a lot of the riding skill is really being taken out of the equation. My other point was simply that the Auto clutch can be, hard on the trans. Not in every case. I still laugh at guys I LOCALLY ride with that have them. After all without some humor and joking added in with riding, how could riding alone supply enough fun. :lol: Main reason we joke with them is many still fall down and have trouble in the technical and tougher sections. Anyways keep up the project.
-
hi every body ,i am new to the site from the U.K . love the write ups on the k5/kx250 hybrids. i am looking to do 1 my self . i have the 500 engine (well the complete bike) the chassis is being broken on ebay if any one needs anything. just trying to decide what year 250 chassis to use. it will be steel. i like the 99 - 02 its just finding a good one being so old, the 03 is a bad idea from what i read on here. so its most likly to be the 04 on. am i right in say that 04 was the same as the 08 , is this an easy 1 to do. would any of the uk users no where i can source a rolling chassis. i figured there should be a few about as i know the gokarters use the engines. any help info or advice would be greatly recieved
best regards to all
john
-
I talked to JFab, and he is taking care of me. We are going to do some collaboration on a headstay that will work for my combo, and hopefully for many others.
Stay tuned, but be patient. I have an out-of-state business trip, and an out-of-state riding trip in the next three weeks.
torch
-
Now for the cooling of the beast.....
The 500 has a series cooling circuit, and the 250 is a parallel cooling circuit. I need to use the 250 system since it fits the chassis (just like stock!:busted:). I'll describe how each system flows, starting at the water pump inlet.
500:
Water pump inlet, to wp outlet, to right side of jug, up through jug to head, out of head on the left side, to bottom of left rad, from top of left rad to top of right rad, from bottom of right rad back to the water pump inlet. This circuit is in series since the coolant flows through one radiator, then flows through the other.
250:
Water pump inlet, to wp outlet, to rear side of jug, up through jug to head, out of head on the top rear WITH TWO OUTLETS going to the top of each rad, through both rads to the bottom of both rads, and back to the water pump inlet. This is parallel since the coolant flows through both radiators at the same time.
Just in case anyone thinks I am belittling them by spelling out the differences between series and parallel, remember that there are some people that just never knew this. It's for thier benefit. So :p.
Next post has pics!
torch
-
Pics! Whoooo!
The water pump inlet manifold from the 250 is wider than the 500, from bolt-to-bolt....
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0767.jpg)
So, I welded up the holes to relocate them:
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0768.jpg)
Then, I milled and drilled: Note: KX500 heads seem to be a purer alloy than KX250 water manifolds, based on the way they weld. I need to fix these pits:
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0770.jpg)
In order to move the bolt holes in, I needed a smaller bolt head. Hello, Allen!
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0771.jpg)
The factory bolt was too fat:
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0772.jpg)
Here are pics of how things will lay out. I still need to make a wye to split the coolant between the radiators for the parallel arrangement I want. That wye will split the coolant flow in half between the head and the top of each radiator.
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0774.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0775.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0776.jpg)
torch
-
SWEET!! :-o
-
Excellent work. Looking good.
-
I wonder if my head stay will work on there :? I bet it will. I just found the patterns the other day for making mine. I could post pictures of the patterns but they would not be actual size. I could copy them and fax it to you if you would like torch. I'm sure you don't really need it but it may help speed up the process. My stay could be made out of billet, wouldn't that be sweet.
-
I wonder if my head stay will work on there :? I bet it will. I just found the patterns the other day for making mine. I could post pictures of the patterns but they would not be actual size. I could copy them and fax it to you if you would like torch. I'm sure you don't really need it but it may help speed up the process. My stay could be made out of billet, wouldn't that be sweet.
I'm currently working with Jfab to make a mount for this application, but I would still like to see the pattern for your mount. Getting more ideas never hurts!
torch
-
Cool J-fab will get it sorted out fast I'm sure of that.
-
I am interested in as many mount ideas as well. Since everyone talked me into building one of these bad lads. :-D
-
I wonder if my head stay will work on there :? I bet it will. I just found the patterns the other day for making mine. I could post pictures of the patterns but they would not be actual size. I could copy them and fax it to you if you would like torch. I'm sure you don't really need it but it may help speed up the process. My stay could be made out of billet, wouldn't that be sweet.
A billet head stay would be awesome, might keep me from breaking them every 10 or so hours lol.
-
Now for the cooling of the beast.....
The 500 has a series cooling circuit, and the 250 is a parallel cooling circuit. I need to use the 250 system since it fits the chassis (just like stock!:busted:). I'll describe how each system flows, starting at the water pump inlet.
500:
Water pump inlet, to wp outlet, to right side of jug, up through jug to head, out of head on the left side, to bottom of left rad, from top of left rad to top of right rad, from bottom of right rad back to the water pump inlet. This circuit is in series since the coolant flows through one radiator, then flows through the other.
250:
Water pump inlet, to wp outlet, to rear side of jug, up through jug to head, out of head on the top rear WITH TWO OUTLETS going to the top of each rad, through both rads to the bottom of both rads, and back to the water pump inlet. This is parallel since the coolant flows through both radiators at the same time.
Just in case anyone thinks I am belittling them by spelling out the differences between series and parallel, remember that there are some people that just never knew this. It's for thier benefit. So :p.
Next post has pics!
torch
Torch, why can't you just use the 250 cooling system? Are you using an older 500 engine (IE pre 89?) I ask because on my 01frame/ 92eng conversion I just used the 250 radiators and hooked them up where they fit, and havn't had any cooling issues . . .under normal conditions that is.
-
Now for the cooling of the beast.....
The 500 has a series cooling circuit, and the 250 is a parallel cooling circuit. I need to use the 250 system since it fits the chassis (just like stock!:busted:). I'll describe how each system flows, starting at the water pump inlet.
500:
Water pump inlet, to wp outlet, to right side of jug, up through jug to head, out of head on the left side, to bottom of left rad, from top of left rad to top of right rad, from bottom of right rad back to the water pump inlet. This circuit is in series since the coolant flows through one radiator, then flows through the other.
250:
Water pump inlet, to wp outlet, to rear side of jug, up through jug to head, out of head on the top rear WITH TWO OUTLETS going to the top of each rad, through both rads to the bottom of both rads, and back to the water pump inlet. This is parallel since the coolant flows through both radiators at the same time.
Just in case anyone thinks I am belittling them by spelling out the differences between series and parallel, remember that there are some people that just never knew this. It's for thier benefit. So :p.
Next post has pics!
torch
Torch, why can't you just use the 250 cooling system? Are you using an older 500 engine (IE pre 89?) I ask because on my 01frame/ 92eng conversion I just used the 250 radiators and hooked them up where they fit, and havn't had any cooling issues . . .under normal conditions that is.
I can't use the 250 system, just the radiators and most of the plumbing. I'll need to make a few parts, but I think the 250 radiators will do just fine.
torch
-
Pics! Whoooo!
The water pump inlet manifold from the 250 is wider than the 500, from bolt-to-bolt....
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0767.jpg)
So, I welded up the holes to relocate them:
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0768.jpg)
Then, I milled and drilled: Note: KX500 heads seem to be a purer alloy than KX250 water manifolds, based on the way they weld. I need to fix these pits:
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0770.jpg)
In order to move the bolt holes in, I needed a smaller bolt head. Hello, Allen!
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0771.jpg)
The factory bolt was too fat:
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0772.jpg)
Here are pics of how things will lay out. I still need to make a wye to split the coolant between the radiators for the parallel arrangement I want. That wye will split the coolant flow in half between the head and the top of each radiator.
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0774.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0775.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/IMG_0776.jpg)
torch
-
hey torch any updates
-
There is now....
The headstay that would not work...
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/P7170120.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/P7170121.jpg)
JFAB made this, but it did not turn out to work for my bike.
So, we worked together to come up with this headstay:
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/torch3/P7170118.jpg)
He laser-cut the chromoly parts based on what I needed, and I modified and welded up the pieces as needed for my build.
It all worked out well.
torch
-
I did the same thing and i had the bike and engine right in front of me... :-P Good to see your back on track. this and a few other sfc topics is what inspired mine