KX Riders

Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: bob larry on April 19, 2010, 03:17:02 AM

Title: Bike won't start!
Post by: bob larry on April 19, 2010, 03:17:02 AM
There is very low compression on the kickstart....can push it with my hand!

Motor just stopped running....

I guess it is the piston and ring.   Anything else it could be.

I am going to tear it all apart tonight, am looking for some ideas.
I am armed with the sticky top end write up which is A+ .
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: DoldGuy on April 19, 2010, 03:46:41 AM
Bob,
Investigate why it has low compression before tearing the motor apart (leak Down test, dirt thru the filter, etc.) or you may be visiting this topic again after a fresh topend.
DoldGuy
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: bob larry on April 19, 2010, 07:40:21 AM
Dirt through the filter will lower the compression?

Going to look up how to do a leak down test......

Thanks for the help........keep er coming
sucks when they are down and out

Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: Hillclimb#42 on April 19, 2010, 08:45:02 AM
Yep. Dirt thru the filter = dirt sanding on the rings. Leaning it out will also melt them. Most likely are looking at piston and ring top end do-over,  :lol: and hopefully no damage to cylinder, keep the fingers crossed and the lucky rabbits foot in your pocket, :-D. Yeah that sucks when they are down even worse when you find it was from something preventable. Live and learn on those deals. that could be a whole thread by itself
  HOW SOMETHING SO SIMPLE MELTED DOWN MY MOTOR... I would have a few stories of my own to confess...
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: bob larry on April 23, 2010, 02:04:51 AM
Well it was the rings....I am amazed these motors will run right till there is NO ring left.

So it is bottom and top end time.....

Any suggestions would be awsome.....
Anybody on here fix the whole shabam..

Will send the jug out and get the piston kit.

The bottom end I will need bearings and seals.

DOE!
looks like I'm out for a bit... :? :?


Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: bob larry on April 23, 2010, 02:08:58 AM
A few more

 :?
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: bob larry on April 23, 2010, 04:04:35 AM
Well I talked to the local Kawi shop and they can send out my Jug for $350 and they ordered me a top end and gaskets. 
Service guy said to just leave the bottom end if it was idleing good and started good.   Opening that up and I'll need one thing after another........

It did idle and start good.  Should I just clean the bottom the best I can a put a new top end on it?

Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: blueoval on April 23, 2010, 04:30:50 AM
Did you do a vacuum test on the motor prior to tearing the top end down?
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: bob larry on April 23, 2010, 04:55:49 AM
No I was dieing to see the jug inside.....I ordered some parts to build one but they will be a few more day before I get the gauge...And I have to find someplace in Ontario that sells the plugs.....Workn on it I guess you could say.

Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: snoopjonnyjon on April 23, 2010, 06:11:04 AM
Starting and idling good do not mean the crank seals are necessarily still fine. My bike always started excellent, and ran perfectly, but when I tore it apart I could see the left seal was weaping behind the stator.
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: bob larry on April 23, 2010, 07:49:37 AM
Ya I would like to do it all so I can sleep at night.

I have the vaccum/pressure tester in the mail
And I have the flywheel puller in the mail..

Maybe I will take it all apart and just get a shop to change the bearings and
seals.  It would suck if they did a poor job on sealing the seals or fd up the
true of the crank....as I don't know anywhere around here I could trust to do a good job....

 :cry:
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: Goat on April 23, 2010, 02:34:35 PM
Since it's already down until you get the jug back you might as well go through the bottom end. Makes a world of difference and you wont be tearing it all down again to replace bearings and seals in a couple months. Saves time and money. I just went through a K5 that I bought over the winter. I'm glad I pulled the cases apart. The bearings fell apart before I even tried to pull the crank out. The cases were beat up as well so I just bought some off ebay that were in good shape. Do your homework if you're not sure about a shop. Search the internet and talk to riders in your area. I've worked at a couple shops I wouldn't recommend to anyone not even my worst enemy. Good luck.
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: fluffy on April 23, 2010, 02:41:13 PM
everytime someone has motor trouble people say ,leak down test,crank seals gone,check rod end play,bearings gone. you got the cyl off,check for deap scratches and chips missing if none,install new rings and gaskets and go. does anybody here ride a less then perfect bike.if you look at my 500 you might be able to tell where i rode last month. every bike posted here gets the beautifull bike comment.does anyone ride a dirtbike. rings and gaskets used to be in everybodys tool box. mine smokes a little to much,crank seals maybe, but still runs like crazy. tear down someday,but not in the near future. dont enjoy it looking at it ride the d**n thing and have a good time.
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: Danger4u2 on April 23, 2010, 02:55:07 PM
fluffy, I understand what your saying.  Ride and enjoy your bike. I don't do all the maintenance like I should but I must have a mechanically sound bike.  We ride in areas where a break down could mean some serious problems.
I have a bike like you describe, may need seals, one fork leaks a little, could use chain and sprockets........
But I only ride that bike on the track behind the shop or no more than 3- 4 miles from the truck.
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: blueoval on April 23, 2010, 04:03:23 PM
I want to comment on this.  I ride the Sheeet out of my bike, but I have very little tolerance (not much at all) for bikes that break down.  Yes, they all do eventually, but when I drive 180 miles each way to get to the riding area and the same amount of miles back burning a full tank of gas in my truck I want to know my bike is going to run good that day.  I often ride over 40 miles from the truck in single track and out in the desert in the middle of nowhere and if it breaks down that would be a real pain - the riding part of the day is ruined.  I also go with friends who want to ride and with all the time and money invested in the days ride it would be irresponsible on my part to have my bike breakdown due to lack of routine maintenance. 

Most of my friends ride newer bikes and there is a pride thing in keeping a decade old bike running good.   

If I was just riding by the truck or the like I would still be as meticulous about the bike because there is a power that be that says lack of maintenance will always come back and bite ya'

I work hard for my money and when I get something I take care of it!

Always ride it hard and beat it to death, but love it at the same time.

I think I am losing my mind.............

B.O.
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: BDI on April 23, 2010, 05:12:13 PM
I know what you mean. every time we go on a big ride I look around at the other guys bikes that I'm ridding with and I know who's going to break down and F the whole ride. Do you think it's wrong to have a tech inspection on a play ride? If you pass tech and you break down everyone piches in to help but if you don't pass tech you can still go but you get left when you break down. thats fair  :-P
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: kaw rider on April 23, 2010, 05:16:33 PM
I hope there not charging you 350 for a plate job.
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: Goat on April 23, 2010, 10:37:29 PM
everytime someone has motor trouble people say ,leak down test,crank seals gone,check rod end play,bearings gone. you got the cyl off,check for deap scratches and chips missing if none,install new rings and gaskets and go. does anybody here ride a less then perfect bike.if you look at my 500 you might be able to tell where i rode last month. every bike posted here gets the beautifull bike comment.does anyone ride a dirtbike. rings and gaskets used to be in everybodys tool box. mine smokes a little to much,crank seals maybe, but still runs like crazy. tear down someday,but not in the near future. dont enjoy it looking at it ride the d**n thing and have a good time.

I've been in a situation a few times far away from home, by myself, and miles from the truck when my bike broke and couldn't be fixed with the tools I had on me. It's no fun pushing your bike up and down hills through the woods and sand all the way back to the truck. Farthest I have had to push my bike was about 6 miles. It was the worst day ever. I was so mad I almost left the bike out in the middle of nowhere. It was all due to lack of maintenance. I was young and still learning how to fix bikes. Sometimes it's an unavoidable situation but other times you only have yourself to blame for not fixing what needed to be fixed. It's usually the smallest things like seals that will end your day in a hurry.

I've always been the guy that no one wants to ride with for a couple reasons. 1 If someone says it can't be done or "you don't have the balls" I will prove you wrong or crash trying. 2 not many can keep up. No matter how big or small their bike. I don't like to putz around and look at scenery. I like to see how fast I can push my bike and myself and come out the other end. I still check everything on the bike before every ride and replace what needs replaced. Ride like this is your last. Enjoy it like it's your first.
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: bob larry on April 26, 2010, 07:55:45 AM
Ya $225 for the wiesco kit and $350 and tax so $380 for the replate........................I figure with the $70 shipping to the USA and the money exchange it isn't too bad.  And dealing with those big headed jems at the border crossing is priceless.

I also ordered vforce 3 reeds and new spockets and Chain

I have just started to ride on the tracks. www.wnyma.com (which is killing me having the bike down) and we have the bruce trail that runs through the region that goes forever and ties into the pipeline from Barrie to Hudson Bay.
It is possible to go for months right out of my garage.  We get a far distance some days....and lucky for me I broke at the track.

Like Goat said I ride it as fast as a can with no care for scenery.
I stop and have my gear off before the next guy comes around.



The k5 is is fast enough stock for me...imo....so I just want a fresh solid rebuild that will be reliable.
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: bob larry on April 26, 2010, 07:59:59 AM
I have the pressure/vaccum test stuff coming in the mail....

So I will rebuild the top.......do the test and go from there I guess....

This site fn rules BTW......

Fire em up...

Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: Danger4u2 on April 26, 2010, 09:04:13 AM
With the top off, I would split the cases and change the crank seals.  It would be the sh**s to put it together, do the pressure test and find you needed seals.
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: bob larry on April 27, 2010, 01:15:18 AM
I hear ya.  Stared at it last night thinking the same thing.
I have the flywheel puller coming from ebay.
Can you split the cases without the puller or is the puller a must have...?

I wish there was a write up on the bottom end to make things smooth.

Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: bob larry on April 27, 2010, 02:13:33 AM
Been looking through all the bikebandit pics....

What would you guys get for the bottom end? 

Crank bearings and Seals... ?


Little cart going..



 5552443-001
  Wiseco Top End Bearing   
Dimensions: 19 X 24 X 24.8mm 

   
   GASKET,GOVERNOR COVER 
Kawasaki 2001 KX500(KX500E13)US CYLINDER HEAD - CYLINDER 
 $2.98 $2.98 $2.98
 
   SEAL-OIL,RSO-5.5 11 4 
Kawasaki 2001 KX500(KX500E13)US CYLINDER HEAD - CYLINDER 
 $5.88 $5.88 $5.88
   
   "0" RING 
Kawasaki 2001 KX500(KX500E13)US CYLINDER HEAD - CYLINDER 
 $4.02 $4.02 $8.04
   
   "0" RING 
Kawasaki 2001 KX500(KX500E13)US CYLINDER HEAD - CYLINDER 
 $2.98 $2.98 $2.98
   
   "O" RING 
Kawasaki 2001 KX500(KX500E13)US CYLINDER HEAD - CYLINDER 
 $3.08 $3.08 $3.08
 
   GUIDE-CHAIN,FR 
Kawasaki 2001 KX500(KX500E13)US SWINGARM 
 $38.04 $38.04 $38.04
   
   BEARING,B,6306SH2-9TC 
Kawasaki 2001 KX500(KX500E13)US CRANKCASE 
 $34.62 $34.62 $69.24  X2
   
   OIL SEAL,TB30508 
Kawasaki 2001 KX500(KX500E13)US CRANKCASE 
 X2

Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: Goat on April 27, 2010, 02:24:22 AM
If you look around there are complete seal kits. They come with every seal you need. If you get a complete gasket kit they come with every gasket and o-ring you would need. I would get crank bearings, output shaft bearing, input shaft bearing, and clutch basket needle bearing. Those take the most abuse. Check the other bearings if they show signs of wear I would replace them.
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: Danger4u2 on April 27, 2010, 07:05:28 AM
If you do it the correct way now, it will be a long time before it's needed again.
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: bob larry on April 27, 2010, 07:28:41 AM
Thanks I hear ya!  You and Goat talked me into it..........

Where can I get the Seal kit and Gasket kit....................Should I use Kawi bearings or ???????

Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: Danger4u2 on April 27, 2010, 07:54:26 AM
Few suggestions,

6306 main bearings picked up at local bearing store.

K & S part number 51-206 on e-bay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KAWASAKI-KX500-88-04-ENGINE-OIL-SEAL-KIT-KX-500-/380220009964?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5886e0edec
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: bob larry on April 27, 2010, 08:21:27 AM
I read someplace that the KAWI seals are the only way to go?

Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: Danger4u2 on April 27, 2010, 08:25:34 AM
Stewart said he used Kawi only but K & S has change their seals and they are as good as the Kawi now.
The 6306 bearings should be non seal, open bearings.
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: bob larry on April 27, 2010, 08:29:20 AM
Cool...that is a geat price too....He even has make an offer option.....try a low ball ..lol

So if I take all the bearing to a bearing shop they could match em up?

I could just order them all from Kawi.....

What about the gasket set with all the o rings and such?

Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: Goat on April 27, 2010, 02:42:36 PM
They should be able to get most if not all the bearings for you. Just make sure they are high speed bearings and are not sealed. It will be considerably cheaper to go through the bearing shop rather than Kawi. But that is your choice.

I haven't used the Moose gasket and seal kit on the K5 yet but have on other bikes and it is a great kit. Good gasket material and seals look just as good as factory seals. Didn't find any on ebay but It was about $80 USD at the dealer when I checked a couple months ago.
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: snoopjonnyjon on April 28, 2010, 02:21:25 AM
I have used both a Winderosa and a Moose gasket/seal kits. There were some differences in the gaskets from OEM Kawi, but the seals were identical NTN seals.
Title: Re: Bike won't start!
Post by: bob larry on April 28, 2010, 08:02:52 AM
Thanks.

I got a Moose gasket set on ebay for $60 shipped
and Oil Seals for $20 shipped

www.canadianbearing.com is my bearing hook up

Got my flywheel puller and vaccum/comp. gauge kit too....

Ready to roll.  Taking the Jug and piston to NRCracing Saturday morning for mail out.

Taking the bottom end out tn and start the tear down.

Thanks for all the help so far....uguys are great.

 :mrgreen: