KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: 98kaw500rider on March 10, 2010, 11:53:11 AM
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Just installed a new dirt racer heavy duty clutch on my 98 kx500 and the center of the clutch basket just spins when i tighten down bolts. I dropped it in gear and pull the clutch in and it will not disengage ( while trying to spin back tire ), what did i do wrong ? I did notice the springs were longer than the springs that were on the bike prior. When i pull the clutch in the plates on the basket do all move out like they should , I know the center of the basket shouldn't be spinning. Any help would be great !
Thanks
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does it have drive plates and frictons plates in there
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of course ... :roll:
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is the long rod in the center and the small cap inside the bearing the rod contacts in the center of clutch
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yes, i flipped the rod because it had alittle wear on the lever side . should i flip it back ?
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The answer is the springs. Install the stock springs and the problem will be fixed. My buddy just went through the same thing,.
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Is the pressure plate lined up correctly with the hub. On some bikes the pressure plate only goes on one way and if you don't get it keyed right with the splines on the clutch hub it will not go together and it will never apply force on the plates. the splines I'm talking about are the splines that the metal clutch plates slide on to. remove the springs and bolts and try clocking the pressure plate differently until it slides all the way on.
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Is the pressure plate lined up correctly with the hub. On some bikes the pressure plate only goes on one way and if you don't get it keyed right with the splines on the clutch hub it will not go together and it will never apply force on the plates. the splines I'm talking about are the splines that the metal clutch plates slide on to. remove the springs and bolts and try clocking the pressure plate differently until it slides all the way on.
Good point. I forgot about this one myself.
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I changed back to stock springs , made no difference . What type of markings should i be looking for on the pressure plate and hub ? So far i have had zero luck , I have seen no markings . I have changed clutches on atv's before with no problems , never had this issue in the past. NEED ADVICE , any help would be great. I have had this apart trying to figure it out for 2 days now , i have changed a clutch in 20 minutes in the past on other bikes . WTF . . . . :x H E L P :?
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take the clutch plates out and try it in every position. I have not done a kx500 clutch in a couple of years so I don't remember if it is that way :| some are some are not. None the less if you try it in all six positions there will only be on that it will go on further then the rest. did you count the plates ? There's not real much to screw up on this. Why did you decide to change the clutch? Is it possible ther was another failer and you are changing the clutch thinking that was what was wrong?
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It won't disengage while trying to spin the back tire?
Are you saying that, in order to tighten the bolts that you need to put it in gear and then without the motor running, the clutch won't disengage? Like trying to push it while in gear is impossible while holding the clutch. I am trying to understand the symptoms. The inside is turning without the outside turning with all the plates and discs in there?
The splines of the hub are all the way meshed. Teeth are meeting with the ridges on the inside, behind the big nut. It has that washer with the teeth, too right.
You can see pressure plate moving when pull the lever?
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take the clutch plates out and try it in every position. I have not done a kx500 clutch in a couple of years so I don't remember if it is that way :| some are some are not. None the less if you try it in all six positions there will only be on that it will go on further then the rest. did you count the plates ? There's not real much to screw up on this. Why did you decide to change the clutch? Is it possible ther was another failer and you are changing the clutch thinking that was what was wrong?
What do you mean all six positions ? I decided to change the clutch because the clutch in it was worn , The bike sat for three years and the clutch was gummed up ( rusted in spots ). I replaced the clutch cable , perch , lever on case , and flipped push rod either ways . Is there a special way the pressure plate sits in ?
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Still can't get this clutch right ! Grrrrrrr. :x
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98,
did you look at an owners manual, or a parts diagram online? Make sure all of your washers are where they are supposed to be.(Behind the basket,between basket & hub) All it takes is for you to get them mixed up and there will be clutch issues. Keep us up to date, with enough good guys on here & a parts diagram you'll get it figured out.
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When all else fails use the manual.
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Issue solved , I had the center nut torqued down to much with the impact . It would not let the center move freely when not in gear. Just got done putting it back together but its cold , raining , and windy here in Ohio so i'll have to wait to test ride it.
Thanks guys
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98k5,
Thanks for the follow up post, and glad you got her figured out.. I'm sure there were several other guys like myself trying to think what was going on. After reading your replies to the other Questions I was stumped... :roll:
I know big shock...there :lol:
Take care,
Tuck\o/
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Issue solved , I had the center nut torqued down to much with the impact . It would not let the center move freely when not in gear. Just got done putting it back together but its cold , raining , and windy here in Ohio so i'll have to wait to test ride it.
Thanks guys
That does not make any sense to me. It seems to me like something still not right,You should be able to tighten that bolt until you strip the threads and not cause it to stop turning.
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must be one of the three washers missinng or in the wrong order big nut has inner splined washer under it ,,,big washer goes beetween clutch inner basket and outer and small washer goes under the big outer basket
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Gosh . . . I can't remember which i put where ( I do have the spline washer under the nut ), guess ill drain fluids for a thrid time tomorrow and check it . I'll be able to do this in my sleep before to long. I know if i crank down on that nut to much the inner basket will not spin freely , maybe have the thicker was in the wrong place ? I dunno ? ? :cry: ??
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Gosh . . . I can't remember which i put where ( I do have the spline washer under the nut ), guess ill drain fluids for a thrid time tomorrow and check it . I'll be able to do this in my sleep before to long. I know if i crank down on that nut to much the inner basket will not spin freely , maybe have the thicker was in the wrong place ? I dunno ? ? :cry: ??
Make sure the fuel is shut off and lay it on her side. I have changed clutches at the races without even draining the oil.
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antifreeze will go everywhere if i lay it down , last thing i want is for that to get into the crank case . Then ill be draining the fluids and cleaning it out at the same time .
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coolant shouldn't leak if the cap is tight or get into the cases if everything is torqued properly. If it does there is a problem.
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If the side case is off then the coolant will have already been drained. It's times like this when I realise what a bargain a manual really is.
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If the side case is off then the coolant will have already been drained. It's times like this when I realise what a bargain a manual really is.
Brian,
at times like those you realize what a bargain a good mechanic is :-D
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antifreeze will go everywhere if i lay it down , last thing i want is for that to get into the crank case . Then ill be draining the fluids and cleaning it out at the same time .
My bad, I forgot to mention draining coolant. Just didnt think it was necessary to drain the oil when it's new.
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Yea , I figured you forgot to mention that. :-D No biggie , I'm sure ill figure it out . Think i might have 2 of the washers swapped around , the one behind the inner basket and behind outer basket. If that were the case would it cause the center not to spin freely ? Only when i back off that center nut could i get it to spin freely , just wondering if it might have other issues i'm not aware of. This bike is new to me , i know my way around a bike but i haven't owned a dirtbike since i was 16 and that was almost 20 years ago. Mainly rode quads the last 20 years , have i couple of buddies with banshees and i want to show them whats up with this bike. Thanks again guys.
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OK , I just took it back apart and as i thought the washers are in the correct order. :oops: They can only go on one way , Thats what i thought ( checked with babbitts ). Anyhow , if i crank down with the impact same issue . Inner basket does Not spin freely , if i back off the impact a half turn it spins freely.I made sure that the baskets were clean and free of any dirt as well as the washers . What do you guys think this could be ? Honestly i have changed about 4 clutches in my day and i have never had so many problems with such a simple job.
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98,
I'm wondering that although the washers are in the right order, the large flat washer does go between the outer hub and back side of the the inner basket. I have seen the washers in the right order, however they were BOTH inside the "basket" (stacked) right behind the large nut .
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If you read Stewart post again about the order it might make more sense.
big nut has inner splined washer under it ,,,big washer goes beetween clutch inner basket and outer and small washer goes under the big outer basket
The only other washer (thrust) is located behind the large (Outer) basket.
So in order, bearing in case -- thrust washer --bushing & caged needle bearing- slide on large Outer basket
(the outer basket rides on the caged needle bearing which is supported by the bushing)
Then you have the large flat washer --then slide on the inner basket.
Next up is the splined washer and then the large nut.
Torque down the nut to 72 ft.lb.
Slide on the fibers and plates. put in the push rod
(one end should be chamfered that goes in against the clutch arm)
Put on the little top hat on the end of the push rod and then the last washer.
Almost done...
Slide on the pressure plate and then the springs an bolts, and tighten to 82 INCH POUNDS
Go around and hook up your clutch cable and put it in gear and check it out... hopefully you can roll
the bike back and forth.
Throw the rest of the junk back on ,fill up the tranny and coolant and et al.
set up the lever adjustment and Pray...I mean fire that thing up and Ride =)
I hope I typed all this down right,
Please don't take offense, that's not what I'm attempting to get across.
Tuck\o/
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Brother tuck\0/ seriously puts the most the most effort into his posts! :-)
you are awesome!
best,
big tim
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Thanks Bro, if you only knew how long it takes me to hunt & peck (single digit typist), scan & crop and post and correct you would laugh yer butt off... :|
...JFab said something to the effect of Just Alot of HOT AIR :-o
Pic's worth a thousand words...
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i75/Friar-Tuck/KX%20500/ServiceManClutchKX5001resized.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i75/Friar-Tuck/KX%20500/ServManClutchKX5002Resized.jpg)
The backside of the outer (large) basket is the same for the 500 & 250
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i75/Friar-Tuck/KX%20500/ServManClutchKX250resized.jpg)
You should be able to see larger images here:
http://www.kxriders.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=259&pos=7
http://www.kxriders.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=259&pos=11
This last page has a pic/detail of the backside of the large basket/thrust washer /bushing/needle bearing
http://www.kxriders.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=259&pos=12
Tuck\o/
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I would like to add that impact guns are for taking bikes appart and torque wrenches are for putting them back together.
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OMG :-o , Thank you guys so much! Issues are now fixed and Tuck i really want to thank you , this really had me stumped . Really thank you again. I would like to add that a buddy of mine was kinda misleading me in this and insisting that i used a impact on it.
Thanks again !
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I would like to add that impact guns are for taking bikes appart and torque wrenches are for putting them back together.
I thought it was:
Dremel cut-off wheels => apart
Visa/Master Card => together
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98,
The other guys were asking the important questions and providing the entertainment to boot.
All I did was post pic's, and you are more than welcome. I know what its like being at wits end with something but don't want to give up. Hey, I been married twenty-one years to the same woman.... I'm tellin' you these guys have been a great help to me.
I'm sure your buddy had the best intentions, maybe he had the darn thing come apart on himself and didn't want the same thing to happen to you. I hope nobody really gets too awful ticked off at the chiding and stuff.
This is one of the few places it doesn't get outright nasty unless "someone has it comin' ".
Tuck\o/
Now what about the three wheeler that won't start cold without a tow....... :lol:
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Tuck, I try real hard to be nice I swear. 98 Im glad you got it figured out :lol: impact guns are an invaluable tool but if missused they can cost you a fortun. There are a lot of things on a bike that can get screwed up by a toque wrench that is out of calibration. Even a 3/8 drive inpact gun is more then capable of screwing up 90% of things on your bike.
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Issue solved , I had the center nut torqued down to much with the impact . It would not let the center move freely when not in gear. Just got done putting it back together but its cold , raining , and windy here in Ohio so i'll have to wait to test ride it.
Thanks guys
That does not make any sense to me. It seems to me like something still not right,You should be able to tighten that bolt until you strip the threads and not cause it to stop turning.
Yea . I know now