KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: KXTC on August 21, 2009, 06:23:57 PM
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G'day,
I have recently had the g/box rebuilt in my KX500 :-D, and they also did the piston, rings, & big-end bearings. Barrel remains unchanged.
I am unsure :| how to run it in properly after hearing varying opinions ranging from:
1) Longest: 10 hours of run-in time @ 20-50% throttle with occasional blasts and multiple oil changes
2) Shortest: run for 10 minutes then cooldown, then run for 20mins & cooldown, then 30 & cooldown. Drop / change oil and offya go.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated !
Cheers,
H.
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personally i would go for the latter,10 mins 1/2 to 3/4throttle cool,15mins bit more stick,cool,15mins playing then drop the oil. i dont know about the 10hrs bit...i think that person is scared of 2-strokes!
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personally i would go for the latter,10 mins 1/2 to 3/4throttle cool,15mins bit more stick,cool,15mins playing then drop the oil.
Thanks mate !
i dont know about the 10hrs bit...i think that person is scared of 2-strokes!
Yeah, I thought that was a little on the cautious side. :?
Thanks !
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That looks like a Wonderland for a KX500 :-D.
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don't run synethic premix the first tank full.
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dont run synthetic? im sorry i have never heard of that one before????? to be honest i wouldnt take the chance of having any of the old crappy non-synthetic oil hanging around in my engines...mainly because the 2 dont mix and you will end up seizing something, i might be totally wrong but really i have never heard of that...maybe higher beings can enlighten to why?
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I had a fresh plate job not seat the rings because of it. And i have used this plater for a long time and this time i was in a rush and used synethic and had only 60 ibs compression. Had the plater look at the cylinder and install new rings on non-synethic oil on pump gas on had 210ibs compression.
I think on a used cylinder or a plated cylinder thats has some hours on it, it's not a issue.
race gas and some oils have additives that glaze over the rings.
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This is what my plater recommends.
What kind of oil should I use?
For 4-Stroke engines we recommend high quality petroleum based motorcycle oil. Many of the non-synthetic OEM engine oils work well and allow the rings to seat quickly. Do not use full synthetic or semi-synthetic oils for break in they are too slippery and keep the rings from seating on the bore. For 2-Stroke engines we recommend Yamalube R mixed at 32:1, we have no confidence in wild 50:1 or 80:1 claims by oil manufacturers. Oil is cheap and piston and cranks are not.
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sorry still not convinced, why do manufacturers recommend using the same oil as they come out of the factory? i had a orange 300 and that baby only ever run on synthetic from new and as for 150psi difference in compression from non-synthetic to synthetic mmmmm was there a ring missing or the head not torqued...
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My 2002 KTM new came with petrolium based oil.... in the manual it straight out said to use petrolium base for the first oil change also.... from then on... full boat syn.... KTM engeneers know more than me... so ....
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but we are talking pre-mix not gear oil
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but we are talking pre-mix not gear oil
Motor is a motor... they all have rings that need to seat, all have bearings that need to wear in... big end bearings, small end bearings, crank bearings.... they all have them.... Sure they get their oil differently. but they all get oil...
Like I said KTM said "NO NO..."
here is royal purple saying "NO NO" (2nd question down)
http://www.royalpurple.com/faqs-motor-oil.html
Enough where they make a 4C oil specifically for it
http://www.royalpurple.com/breakin-oil.html
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I think on a used cylinder or a plated cylinder thats has some hours on it, it's not a issue.
I think that would apply to me. The existing chrome barrel was within spec and NOT replaced.
Time to head out...ahem, and take it easy for a bit. Thanks for the help and all - KXRiders is/are great !
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There's gotta be an upside to being the most isolated Capital City in the world (Perth, West Australia) :-D
That looks like a Wonderland for a KX500 :-D.
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sorry to have final word on this subject but
Hi Dean,
Sorry for taking so long to answer, but I wanted to check this out with the
boffins in the lab, this is their reply:
'There is very little 'running in' possible with hard nickel/silicon plated
bores; they depend on the surface finish to retain oil. So, deliberately
aiming for a high wear rate by using a cheap oil (even one that claims to be
'synthetic') to run the bores in will only remove the surface finish and
reduce oil retention. Not a good idea! The old rules for cast-iron bores do
not apply. Use Pro-2, Pro-KR2 or Comp-2 Plus from
day 1'. JR
I hope this helps.
Silkolene HQ so as i said before dont use non-synthetic as these boys know their onions
so as for previous comments bugger off!
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Synthetics (designed for autos) in the gearbox has cost me a set of clutches. The teflon coated all the discs and plates and essentialy gave me a slipper clutch. I could put it in gear with no clutch and could feather the throttle to get it rolling. After reading the thread on here about breaking in an engine with no pre-lube and no caution for warm-up cycles, I did kinda learn a good point.
To sum it up in my words: The thinking was that riding the bike under a load and then the throttle closed during decelleration with clutch still engaged actually seated the rings the best. The idling process actually could cause some gases to flow past the rings. But under a load and then slowing back down with the clutch still in, actually causes the rings to press against the cylinder walls as the gases try to get behind the rings.
I now do the heat cycle deal twice. Ride easy for a ten to twenty minute cycle. Then rip it pretty hard for a 10 minute cycle without holding the throttle in any position for an extended period. Then its ready for a daily rippin'. I personally don't think it seats up all the way for hours.
I always run synthetic pre-mix though.
Let's not forget that "synthetic" is a very broad term. It isn't some fake oil. It is the same oil with as many technological advancements as possible. It lubes the cylinder to prevent wear and keeps it cool to prevent swelling tolerances. Synthetics have been highly developed to do their job better, or they simply would have never made them.
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I run in all the engines i build hard. I let them warm up, & go through the gears easy at first to ensure no binding in the tranny or whatever...then i really tan them.
Very rare does a problem occur, & never because of this method...............i say rae because i build alot of engings, both four, & two stroke.
I built my heavily modded K5 , & ran it in real hard. My bike is piped, shaved head, ported, lectron carb, fancy reeds, etc, etc, etc.
Since the build i have burned well over 100 gallons of C-16, & she still runs like a raped ape :-o..................& i have this thing wide open for very long periods.
It never ceases to amaze me on how tough it is :-o
I will mention that i do not burn synthetic on the first tank after rebuild....but use 50-1 synthetic after that.
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i would also like to point out that i wouldnt use synthetic gear oil in my tranny after having some friction plates disintergrate inside as well, but it does seem like a bit of a 2-way argument over pre-mix though,personally i would use synthetic pre-mix,many others say not. i wouldnt take the risk. I have been in touch with Silkolene and with Castrol and both dont recommend it, but also on the other hand i had a reply from customer services at Langcourt saying "personally" i wouldnt use it whether it meant personally to the person replying or company wide!!! I do have one more person to contact who is a proffessor in motor vehicle development for Porsche who was building race engines using nicasil plated barrels back in the 80s to see what he has to say....case adjourned
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The premix story will always be a different depends on who you talk to. Some engine builders have first hand experience on what oils make good power or have good wear in motor and are clean burning.
Would you run the same oil if you had a stock K5 motor verus a 140 Hp K5 motor.
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An experienced engine builder told me that if he is building a race car engine, then to always put non synthetic oil in the engine for the break in period. This will seat the rings 'faster'. However, in a non race engine, it is not a bad thing to start after rebuild with synthetic. It just takes longer for the rings to seat which is not necessarily a bad thing. The synthetic reduces wear on the piston and rings during break in and after some time, the seat will actually be a better one than if you had started with a non synthetic oil.