KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: turtle22 on March 30, 2009, 10:41:52 AM
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so i find myself speed shifting ALOT(in non binding situations) on straightaways hills. i drive truck for a living and never use the cluch to shift that& i find myself liking the smothness i get out of speed shifting. so my question is , is this bad for the cluch? what are the side effects that i dont know about. i use the cluch to stop and start and feathering it in tough spots. and yes i go up and down gears. im very smooth when i do this. the bike does not learch or buck. let me know. i love my K5 and dont want to do it undo harm(i do enought harm riding it :-D )
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Hey Turtle, You shift your truck, assuming its a semi type, without a clutch because it doesn't have synchronizers. The syncros job is to bring the clutch plates to the proper speed to allow a smooth shift. Autos and light trucks have them. If you never use your clutch on your kx ever again you will never wear the clutch out unless you have a Stewart engine that is capable of driving through the max clamping force of the clutch. almost every racer on smaller bike don't use the clutch to shift. It becomes a factor of pulling the bike out of gear not putting it back in. I never use the clutch to down shift.
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I have had to fix many motors (not mine) due to this... Its HELL on shift dogs...
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what about the transmission? how hard would speed shifting be on the tranny? i recently broke the lever off my hydraulic clutch and part of the master cylinder on my ktm on a tiny slide out. i wanna keep riding until my new master cylinder comes in but i dont wanna hurt the transmission
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Over time, I think it really does wear out the dogs. I do it, but not all the time, and never under a load.
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I only use the clutch for starting out, or if in a special situation, I may slip it a little. I have never had any transmission issues with any motorcycle. My old red bike, I could upshift under full power without the clutch.
Of course I dont reccomend this for others,but it is what I do. I also change transmission fluid once a week.
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Obviously the important thing is to let off of the acceleration, during the upshift or to wait on less decceleration on a downshift. Its harder on the dogs, if the motor is under a load one way or the other. Mis-timed shift can be the hard part on the tranny. Transmission problems suck, so i just give the clutch a quick pull, but I do alot of non-clutch shifting on our yz125. I put the magura hydraulic clutch on the 500, so its easier on the forearm. The pull is so fast during a fast section that I'm not sure its much different. Possibly faster shifting with clutch, since the load is takin off of the motor with the lever instead of rolling off the gas. The throttle movement is much less when aided by the clutch. Maybe its better on the transmission to use the clutch during aggressive riding and OK to not use it during a medium to slow pace. I have no experience fixing transmissions, just some shifting them.
KTMEXC125, its just dangerous to ride without any clutch. I have had to ride from a crash back to the truck without a lever and its not fun. You can't ride for fun. You can ride it for transportation from point a to point b, but it sucks. Its like deciding to ride without brakes. You think, no biggie, I'll use the other brake, then when you need to stop, your reactions have you stomp on the pedal, even though you know it won't work. Motosport Outlet will 2-day that to you for no extra charge. Their list prices include tax, shipping is free on orders over 150 or 200.(it changes)
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I didn't expect to see so many people shifting without clutching. When I was little racing an RM60, my uncle told his son that if he caught him using his clutch after the gate dropped he'd pull it off the bike. He was on a YZ80.
After this, I began to try both, with clutching, and without. I really think I'm quicker if I keep a finger or two on the clutch lever for multiple reasons. I slip my clutch out of corners to get the maximum force out of the corner possible without blowing up the back tire, among other situations.
One of the magazines did tests on this very subject like 10 years ago and determined that their test riders were like a second a lap faster when they used both brakes and clutch. I'll look see if I can google up anything on the subject.
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thanks everybody. it seems like im riding like a lot of u out there. i do use the cluch coming out of corners and in ruff spots. but i find that(maybe cause i do drive a big truck) that i get real smoth shifting without it. i have a lot to learn about riding a dirtbike, i can not speed shift my harley. way to much horsepower going to the back wheel for that.im just afraid of learning bad habits now that i will regrate years down the line.
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Here's some junk I found:
http://www.motocrossactionmag.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=02A1E1DBEA2247C8AB91AC06A147EE30
http://www.gsmxs.com/tips.htm
http://www.atlanticmx.com/howto_clutch.shtml
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Use the clutch!!!!! Your gearbox would love it!!!
Or If you have enough money to replace your gear, shift on load!!
I mostly keep the throttle full open and use the clutch a bit to shift up.
On a K5 I can't get it done shifting up on full load without the clutch.
Dutch
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I started racing when I was 11 and haven't used the clutch since (for shifting). My 78 husqavarna 390 used to wear the dogs but none of my newer bike have shown any ill effects. My K5 lasted 14 years doing this and still shifts great for the NO. I do use it when climbing, braking and cornering. My wife and kids don't use it either (but then I guess I taught them). I actually think speed shifting may be harder on the trans but have no proof. I won a race once with the throttle stuck WFO and using the kill button to shift gears. Cam.
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CAM ur awesame :-o the kill button to shift. never would have thought of that
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Cam... You are your own air shifter! :-D
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KXcam22, love that story about winning the race with a stuck throttle using the kill button to shift.
I have driven many old Beetles with a broken clutch cable, and once with a broken throttle cable, ( you do have to wire the throttle at half open ).
One more note, since I dont use the clutch to shift, my left hand doesnt get as tired on long rides. And if I ever did have trans problems, (which I highly doubt) I can fix it myself.
John
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I started racing when I was 11 and haven't used the clutch since (for shifting). My 78 husqavarna 390 used to wear the dogs but none of my newer bike have shown any ill effects. My K5 lasted 14 years doing this and still shifts great for the NO. I do use it when climbing, braking and cornering. My wife and kids don't use it either (but then I guess I taught them). I actually think speed shifting may be harder on the trans but have no proof. I won a race once with the throttle stuck WFO and using the kill button to shift gears. Cam.
So you blimp your throtlle a bit or so than CAM???
I've ridden many track were is't no option to miss when shifting. You just simpley go immediately over the handelbars, so deep was that sand.
It was even hard (not) on my cr125 and 250 to shift WFO on those tracks, without clutch or letting of the gas.
Although letting of ment you risk to see you front fender real close. :)
But maybe it was just me :|
Dutchie
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Dutchie,
Yes I let off the throttle momentarily (to unload the transmission) then apply the throttle and shift at the same time. Happens to fast it looks like I am blipping the throttle. Cam.
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When I raced 125's years ago, clutchless shifting was almost mandatory to maintain momentum. Once you learn the exact technique, you pose no harm of accelerated wear on the shift dogs.
I race 125cc shifter karts with a CR125 powerplant, and with karts, you only use the hand clutch to stop and start. Like others commented you simply make one perfectly synchronized motion: unload the gearbox by abruptly letting off throttle, abruptly shift into the next gear, back hard on the gas. Once you have the technique dialed in, you will see almost no rpm loss, and the actuall shift will feel very smooth. If the shift feels notchy, or you feel resistance, your not unloading the gearbox correctly (I am also shifting my kart consistantly at 12,300 rpm's), and kart racers go years without a tranny rebuild
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If you have afford by Starlane powershift VX and a battery (12v 1,3a) in airbox and problem solved! :wink:
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so i was talking to a friend about the Recluse(not sure on spelling)cluch setup. i watched a couple of they're videos, money wise its out of the question(right now) but i was wondering if this is just going to far on the lazy scale? i dont know. it look cool and seemed to work well
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How about a link to the videos?
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I have ridden with the recluse. It is not for me but when you get into an ugly ugly ugly spot, there is nothing better. Cam.
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Just this morning I was checking out an old gravel pit to ride in and a guy road up to me on a CR500, as I watched him make his way over to me through some pretty loose stuff I noticed how he made it look easy, when he got to me we started talking and it turns out he had a Rekluse and couldnt say enough good about it, he was walkin a big bore 2 stroke like it was a 4 stroke...Very cool
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How about a link to the videos?
http://shotmakerproductions.com/2009/01/01/rekluse-ty-davis-feature/
http://shotmakerproductions.com/2009/01/01/rekluse-jamie-lanza-feature/
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If you have afford by Starlane powershift VX and a battery (12v 1,3a) in airbox and problem solved! :wink:
Looks great Doordie. Top line stuff. Only ?350,- here in Holland!!!
Dutchie
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what is that in US$ :?
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what is that in US$ :?
$475,-!!!! The link for US sales point
http://www.yoyodyneti.com/category.aspx?categoryID=2881 (http://www.yoyodyneti.com/category.aspx?categoryID=2881)
And Rekluse, they don't have one for the K5 :cry:
http://www.rekluse.com/ (http://www.rekluse.com/)
Dutch
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thats probley why i could not find a listing for it(the rekluse). thats terrible
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Got one on my WR, great piece of equipment
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i e-mailed rekluse& asked if they would/do make one for the k5. im still waiting on a response. i'll keep u posted if i get one
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what is that in US$ :?
$475,-!!!! The link for US sales point
http://www.yoyodyneti.com/category.aspx?categoryID=2881 (http://www.yoyodyneti.com/category.aspx?categoryID=2881)
And Rekluse, they don't have one for the K5 :cry:
http://www.rekluse.com/ (http://www.rekluse.com/)
Dutch
I have one! :-D
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I found out that the KLX400 and DR-Z400 is the same bike.
And if I've seen it correct you use that one with some mods DOORDIE????
Does it work so good as they say??? Smoothing out the power for TRACKTION?
Dutch
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doordie? dont keep us hanging,the suspence is killing me :-D
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Wow that looks awesome I really want one!! Maybe after I break another case trying the pvl will be a good time.
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What does the PVL offer that would be worth risking breaking a case? Please don't take the question wrong. I would really like to know.
JFAB
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Quicker throttle response and hopefully better top end. It also has a lot more spark which should really help with the high compression. Truthfully were not that sure thats why we need to try.
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I found out that the KLX400 and DR-Z400 is the same bike.
And if I've seen it correct you use that one with some mods DOORDIE????
Does it work so good as they say??? Smoothing out the power for TRACKTION?
Dutch
Yes and yes,my survivellkit for long raced(+3 hours) as GGN in mud!
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I found out that the KLX400 and DR-Z400 is the same bike.
And if I've seen it correct you use that one with some mods DOORDIE????
Does it work so good as they say??? Smoothing out the power for TRACKTION?
Dutch
Yes and yes,my survivellkit for long raced(+3 hours) as GGN in mud!
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look,sometimes im retarded and need things spelled out for me. what did that rekluse origalily go in? and how much work did it take to get to fit it in to the k5? and what years do u think it will work in(my '89?)?
thanks for typing slow for me :lol:
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Doordie has the whole thing outlined!
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,2840.0.html (http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,2840.0.html)