KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: GDubb on January 29, 2009, 07:32:14 PM
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No, really... ALL the experienced 500 guru's...
It's income tax time, and I need to take the opportunity to spend some money on some much needed repairs and maintenance that I've been putting off for like... *cough*a year or two*cough*
So I'm calling in a big favor...
Here's the deal... I need a new chain and sprockets... strangely enough in my years of riding this is the only bike Ive had long enough to need to replace these things. I have read every chain and sprocket thread/post that has come through here for the last four years so I know what brands some of you have recommended and I know its a 520 chain and so on... but for some reason when I look up chains and sprockets and try to decipher what it all means and what exactly to buy... I just go retarded, draw a blank, and go dumb.
Here is the favor part...
I'm hoping some of you guys will be willing to do some shopping for me... all I want is a link to exactly what/all I need to buy so all I have to do is click "Check Out" and fork out the dough if that is possible or maybe a list of manufacturers and part numbers. I'm just trying to take myself out of the mix as much as possible. I want something a little snazzy that looks good, not just a plain jane grey chain or anythang...
I dont want this to be a "which chain and sprocket do you recommend" discussion because that has been done before... hopefully just a collection of links to decent deals on what each individual considers a good setup. Like if we were talking one on one over a beer, what EXACT parts would you recommend I buy kinda thing.
My bike is geared at 13-45 right now because... well... because it came that way. I'm a dune shredder at heart, but the fact is a majority of my riding nowadays will be done in the woods here in Washington with only a couple (if I'm lucky) Oregon dune trips thrown in a year and the occasional moto practice day. I ride pretty aggressively and like to keep it on the pipe so I'm up for gearing suggestions. Maybe the stock 14-47 is a good medium? I dunno. I'll listen to what you guys suggest.
So if you guys are up to it I'd appreciate the help and any input. If you guys need any more info from me let me know. If this is a stupid idea... I appologize :-D
-G
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http://www.motosport.com/dirtbike/index.php
Motosport Outlet. I get alot of my stuff there. They have sprocket and chain combos, tire combos, clearance items, deals of the day, free 2-day shipping on orders over 200 bucks. Prices shown are tax included, so the math is easy.
Steel sprockets, (JC Steel brand) last a long time and are inexpensive. They are heavy, but it doesn't slow the 500's down much. The Renthals are my personal favorite, but thats cause they look the best. Gear ratio is definately personal preference. I usually change 2 teeth at a time on rear sprocket for adjustments. Also, I keep in mind which direction I might go when breaking the chain, so I will have the slack in adjusters to swap sprockets. For example, if I am installing a 49, I have the adjusters pretty short, so I can use a 47, or 45. If you plan on changing around any, (it helps alot in different conditions) you can get an extra master link and hold onto remaining links.
I'm not the real guru on this site, but thats my 2 cents.
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I count myself lucky, I have a friend since we were 12 years old that is the parts department manager at my local Kawi dealership. No need to say, I buy my stock Kawi parts from him. If I didn't have him in my corner I would buy from Service Honda, they carry Kawasaki. When I owned a few Honda's I could order my parts from Service Honda for less money than driving to the Honda dealer 7 miles from my house. Shipped to my door at work. No tax if your out of state, unless your state gouge's you for that. You do have to pay for shipping but most times it was less than the tax I would have paid in state.
Service Honda NOW Supplying All OEM Parts For
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I like motorsports outlet but cant find my catalog so i will suggest chapparrel catalog #83 1-800-841-2960 since i just bought new chain and sprockets:
14 tooth sunstar front part number 390-3814 page 345 $14.99
47 rear sunstar sprocket part number 392-6552 page 345 $39.99
114 link tsubaki 520 oring chain page 328 $110
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Thanks dsrtrider... the exactly the kind of post I'm looking for... I need to see exactly what parts others would recommend or buy for themselves. It just makes it that easier for me to make a decision. I still want to see some more recommendations so I can see what my specific options are. Still open to hearing your guys gearing recommendations and why you recommend them as well. I'm trying to get a lil edumacation out of this. Thanks for you guy' input so far... good stuff.
-G
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what other maintenace parts you looking for? (Clutch plates, tires, pipe, piston, ???). I chose the steel spocket listed based on a previous aluminum vs steel sprocket thread on this site. try search function can lead you to those threads and when you need exact parts lets us know and we can look parts up. i have chapparell catalog and just found my motorsports catalog. also for bike parts places like bikebandit has microfish online and reasonable prices. Also with k5 the little rubber ring behid countershaft sprockets needs repalcement occaisionally (check for small leaks around front sprocket) and of course the pipe brackets can break due to vibration. you can get those at bike bandit site
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I'm only worried about the chain and sprockets right now because it's a big purchase and I want to make sure and do it right. I need more suggestions. C'mon guys.... help me out. Anyone ever used the DID 520 ERT2? It's pretty and has a tensile strength of 8100 lbs. What other sprockets have some of you guys used and abused? What about master links? What if any special tools do I need to work with a chain? I really dont know s**t about this stuff and need some suggetions based on you guys' experiences.
-G
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i won't try to give you my pick as to gearing choice because it varies with every ride you go on. different gearing for sand, hills, muddy, flat, drag racing or whatever else you might be doing. so i would only recommend that you talk with the pro's at SIDEWINDER. they are the best and have the best products period. they are not cheap but then again if you want quality guaranteed then call these guys. theres a page at the bottom of this post that you can print off and send to them and their pros will recommend the perfect gearing combo for the info you provide. i'll insert a quote right off the sidewinder webpage for ya.
________________________________________________________
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aluminum and 3 times harder than stainless steel. Titanium II sprockets
are the lightest non-aluminum sprockets made. Precision laser-cut to
extremely close tolerances. Proven to withstand 150+ horsepower Sand
Rails and Dragsters.
The rear Ti's are provided in a soft black phosphate finish only. The fronts
are plated by a number of methods and may come in black, silver
chromate or light gold coating.
No other brand of sprocket even comes close.
If you want the best, look no further.
Motorcycle sprockets and ATV sprockets
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Standard size fronts?.$89.99
Standard size rears?..$169.99
Custom sizes from 10-122 teeth?..Call for quote
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?It will never wear out or else?
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Never buy another sprocket again!! The all-new ?Titanium II? rear
sprocket is The One every rider has been waiting for. Sidewinder
guarantees this sprocket to never wear out or Sidewinder will replace it
Free of Charge.
How Much Better Can It Get?
It does not matter: what brand of bike you ride; how often you ride it; how
much you weigh; what kind of tires you run; what displacement bike you
bought?..if you buy a Titanium II sprocket from Sidewinder Racing
Products and you wear it out...you get a free replacement. This offer is
limited to the original purchaser. Please retain your invoice for proof of
purchase. Certain hybrid, project machines with engine transplants; mega
horsepower dune dragsters; machines with non-standard gearing; custom-
made sprockets, conversion kits, and machines using non-Sidewinder
drive chains are not covered under this guarantee. This guarantee does
not cover damage caused by loose sprocket bolts, chain derailment or
improper installation. You may be requested to return the worn out
sprocket to Sidewinder.
_________________________________________________________
they don't really list prices on their web page for combos but here is the link to their page.http://sidewindersprockets.com/kawasaki.html. remember go with quality, these are what Stewart would recommend. MADDOGGY
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Standard size fronts?.$89.99
Standard size rears?..$169.99
:-o
But they sure are pretty... and with a lifetime guarantee... I think I'll give them a call. It may be spendy, but I dont like experimenting with my money. I'm the kind of person that likes to do things right and do it right the first time so I'll spend the money and spend it right the first time.
Does anyone ride all different types of terrain (woods, moto, dunes) and found a gearing that seems to work decent enough for all of it?
What are your thoughts on the 13-45 gearing I'm running now? Where does that gearing benefit? Where does it hurt? I'm worried about the gearing because I dont really know much about it. Am I worrying about it to much? Should I just go back to stock 14-47 and call it a good all around gearing? Seems like they would want the bike somewhat versatile from the factory and would gear it accordingly. I'm all ears and very interested in you guys' opinions and suggestions. I think I'm pretty set on the sidewinder setup... just gotta figure out the details now.
-G
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13/45 will give benefit in tight wood trails i think,
for mx i find the k5 to powerfull with 13/45 .
my mx bike is geared a bit higher like 14/45 for less wheelspin and more bite on higher speeds.
my track sm runs on 15/42
my streetk5 runs 15/44
i,m even considering putting 15/48 on my mx bike ,
because i like the controlable power /torque in low gears,and the higher vmax
i use genuine kawi or renthal /talon..
the way i ride mx i barely use a set per year ,on the sumo they last even longer 8-)
to resume ,
one set-up for all types of riding could be 13/48 13/51 14/48 14/51
but it,s a complete personal thing what you like best
hoping to be of any help :wink:
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GDubb,
Keep in mind tha expensive chain (read quality) is actually cheaper in the long run. Picture the difference between the stock KX chain and a sidewinder. Heck, I took the 12 year old "quality" chain off my K5 and put it on my new 450 because it was better. Cam.
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I also recommend staying away from an X-Ring Chain or also called "Continuous Chain" These have a Rivot-type Master Link, which is more practical for a Street Bike. The Master on these chains have a press together, then a Flaring tool to set the Link , instead of the typical clip type link. I got one of these, and the quality of chain is nice, price is higher, but a huge pain in the a** plus I didn't have the peace of mind of the familiar master link.
Its all personal preference on the set-up you start with, but you should consider small changes one way or the other, when breaking the chain to leave yourself the adjustment for a change especially if you ride different terrains.
13 countershaft is a little safer because you have the transmission to run fast in open terrain. And the k5 has alot of bottom grunt that 125's and 250's don't have, so it won't die around every corner because you try a 14. You may need to clutch a little more in one area or another either way. Either while in tight turns (if you run the 14) or while shifting through the tranny in the open (with a 13) When your arm is getting fatigued from fanning the clutch, or your leg from restarting, you'll know when you are geared wrong for the riding. :-D
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I use renthal sprockets and chain. The renthal 520 non oring chain never stretch. Wide open holeshots can put a strain on a chain, and others I have tried in the past have stretched, but not the renthal.
www.pinsonnaultracing.com (http://www.pinsonnaultracing.com)
www.motosport.com (http://www.motosport.com)
www.cheapcycleparts.com (http://www.cheapcycleparts.com)
all can get you whatever else you need for your bike.
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I use renthal sprockets and chain. The renthal 520 non oring chain never stretch. Wide open holeshots can put a strain on a chain, and others I have tried in the past have stretched, but not the renthal.
www.pinsonnaultracing.com (http://www.pinsonnaultracing.com)
www.motosport.com (http://www.motosport.com)
www.cheapcycleparts.com (http://www.cheapcycleparts.com)
all can get you whatever else you need for your bike.
all chain will stretch over time even if it's a minimal amount. even the best chain will, i repeat will stretch some. i would recommend staying away from a non-oring chain. the oring is there to keep the dirt out and we all know that dirt is the primary source of wear on most components. alot of sprocket wear in my opinion is caused by worn chain. check out the thread titled "long term chain care" that answers alot of questions concerning sprockets and chain. its a good read if nothing else. MADDOGGY
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For dunes on a 500 I've always favored steel sprockets and o-ring chains. I've had just about every sprocket on the market and lately my favorite bang for the buck is the primary drive steel sprockets and o-ring chains from Rockymountainatv.com They are just as tough as anything I've used before and the price can't be beat. You can get a 14/47 sprockets/chain combo for $74.99. Give em a try and I'm sure you'll be impressed.
http://www.rockymountainatv.com/productDetail.do?navType=type&navTitle=Drive&webTypeId=123&webCatId=9&prodFamilyId=9635#vehicleSelect
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I can only add from my experience with big bore thumpers. I will follow my own experience and use nothing but quality steel sprockets.
I have hooked alu. sprockets in as little as 300 miles with my XR. Steel is the way to go I think. Less cost than Ti., and more durable than alu.
260 bucks for Ti. sprockets is alot of dough. Not to mention the "call to quote" on the chain.
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For dunes on a 500 I've always favored steel sprockets and o-ring chains. I've had just about every sprocket on the market and lately my favorite bang for the buck is the primary drive steel sprockets and o-ring chains from Rockymountainatv.com They are just as tough as anything I've used before and the price can't be beat. You can get a 14/47 sprockets/chain combo for $74.99. Give em a try and I'm sure you'll be impressed.
http://www.rockymountainatv.com/productDetail.do?navType=type&navTitle=Drive&webTypeId=123&webCatId=9&prodFamilyId=9635#vehicleSelect
if those rocky combos last well then that is sure a pretty good buy. may be worth trying. but then again it all depends on what you want quality wise. if you change gearing for terrain then the rocky combos might be the ticket, but if you put on a set and leave it for a long time then the sidewinder would be my choice. of course this is all just my opinion. MADDOGGY
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Dont let the price fool you. These sprockets are quality. I have many fellow riders that have also tried these sets out with the same great results. Sidewinder is good to but way overpriced. I hate paying extra $$$ for name marketing.
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Here's some chain info:
Tsubaki Complete guide to Chain: http://chain-guide.com/toc.html
D.I.D. spec chart : http://www.didchain.com/specs.htm
I am not promoting this guys shop, thought it was interesting info:
http://www.quality-cycle.com/truth_about_motorcycle_chains.htm
Tuck\o/
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I use renthal sprockets and chain. The renthal 520 non oring chain never stretch. Wide open holeshots can put a strain on a chain, and others I have tried in the past have stretched, but not the renthal.
www.pinsonnaultracing.com (http://www.pinsonnaultracing.com)
www.motosport.com (http://www.motosport.com)
www.cheapcycleparts.com (http://www.cheapcycleparts.com)
all can get you whatever else you need for your bike.
all chain will stretch over time even if it's a minimal amount. even the best chain will, i repeat will stretch some. i would recommend staying away from a non-oring chain. the oring is there to keep the dirt out and we all know that dirt is the primary source of wear on most components. alot of sprocket wear in my opinion is caused by worn chain. check out the thread titled "long term chain care" that answers alot of questions concerning sprockets and chain. its a good read if nothing else. MADDOGGY
The non oring is a no brainer for racing. The never stretch part was an exaggeration of course, but the stretch is very very VERY minimal. I have been racing for a long time and the Renthal is my favorite. The worst I have found as far as stretching goes is Tsubaki.
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What do you guys think about the DID ERT2? It looks like the most bling and has a tensile strength of 8100 lbs. Not bad for $66. I looked at the Sidwinder chains and they arent too outrageously priced but they list a 7000 lb and a 10,000 lb version with a $20 difference between the two. Thats a big gap in tensile strength so I dont know whether I should consider the 7 or 10. Then add $20 for double gold plating and it starts to add up.
Do any of you guys that run Sidewinder sprockets run their chains as well? Stewart? Any advise?
-G
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We run the DID ERT chains on all the 5's and 250's we drag race and have never had any problems with this chain. We run sunstar front spockets and sprocket specialist or chris's rear sprockets. You want to go fast try my combo 17 front from a banshee 37 rear from chris's
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sidewinder chain and sprocket sets have been flawless,,i have them on my bike 3years no adjustments dyno and ride time
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Does anyone know of a steel rear sprocket with some bling factor? Or are they all just plain 'ol gray steel? I've been looking everywhere. The Sidewinders will be my last resort if I cant find a decent looking steel sprocket. Even though I have a chunk of money right now because of my tax return, I am fighting feeling irresponsible for considering dropping that kind of loot for sprockets given the rest of my financial situation.
-G
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One more question...
If subtracting teeth from the front sprocket gears the bike DOWN...
and subtracting teeth from the rear sprocket gears the bike UP...
Then what the hell is the point of 13-45 gearing? Isn't that combo kind of contradictory? Wouldn't that be the same as or really close to stock gearing or am I misunderstanding the concept of gearing? If that combo worked decent for me then should I just go ahead and run the stock 14-47 and not notice much difference?
-G
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The 13-45 would calculate out to be in between a 14-48 and 14-49 gearing setup. (A tooth and a half slower than stock, if stock is 14-47)
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The 13-45 would calculate out to be in between a 14-48 and 14-49 gearing setup. (A tooth and a half slower than stock, if stock is 14-47)
Slower meaning slower acceleration or slower top speed?
-G
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divide the rear sprocket by the countershaft sprocket to obtain your gear ratio. Example 45/14=3.214
45/13=3.461
43/13=3.30
42/13=3.23
As you can see the 42 13 combo has almost the same ratio as the 45 14 set. The higher number ratio yields more torque and less topend speed and just the opposite for a lower ratio.
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Does anyone know of a steel rear sprocket with some bling factor? Or are they all just plain 'ol gray steel? I've been looking everywhere. The Sidewinders will be my last resort if I cant find a decent looking steel sprocket. Even though I have a chunk of money right now because of my tax return, I am fighting feeling irresponsible for considering dropping that kind of loot for sprockets given the rest of my financial situation.
-G
I know all the steel Primary Drive series sprockets I buy from Rockmountain come chrome plated.
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divide the rear sprocket by the countershaft sprocket to obtain your gear ratio. Example 45/14=3.214
45/13=3.461
43/13=3.30
42/13=3.23
As you can see the 42 13 combo has almost the same ratio as the 45 14 set. The higher number ratio yields more torque and less topend speed and just the opposite for a lower ratio.
Good info there... I wrote that down in my notes. BUT... can someone tell me or describe to me in a seat-of-the-pants sort of way to explain what difference I will feel between the 13/45(3.46) gearing I have now and the 14/47(3.36) stock ratio? Basically... what is 1 tenth difference gonna feel like if I would feel it at all? How many teeth or how much of a ratio amount do I have to change before it is REALLY noticeable?
Let me put it this way... The feeling I am getting regarding the gearing issue is that it is some mysterious and magical thing that no man can suggest a gearing for another man and you must be able to afford to waste money on various sprockets to figure it out for yourself. REALLY? All I want is a gearing that works decent haulin' ass in the woods but also works decent for haulin' ass in the open... whats so hard about that? Or is the truth that we are all as ignorant of what gearing to select as I am? What do you wide open desert riders that ride with your balls in your throat at 70mph+ run? What do you guys that RIP through the woods dodging trees and tree limbs at a blurry pace run? And WTF is the middle ground? Is there anyone that is an AGGRESSIVE rider in both WOODS and DUNES with experience with gearing? I wanna talk to THAT guy so I can put this s**t to rest. Forgive me if I sound testy, but I am. Choosing a chain/sprocket/gearing combo has turned out to be quite the ordeal and I just want this s**t over with. I cant be the only one this confused and frustrated by trying to understand this s**t so hopefully my headache will help others in the future as well. I get the math. Math is easy. Now somebody help me turn the math(numbers) into seat of the pants. I just need a gear ratio that will suit an aggressive rider in various terrain. And yes, sometimes my frustration gets the best of me. :evil: You guys have no idea how much time I have between the computer and catalogs trying to figure this s**t out. I do appreciate you guys' help and info. Its not like I have anyone else to help me with this crap.
-G
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I'm running 13-47,,, it sucks in the sand,,, I can still hit 85-90 in the wide open,,,, but it is perfect in the first gear crawling over rocks, cliffs, and down right gnarly. You are right about the personal preference,,, like choosing a wife,,, not always perfect but too much trouble to change. :|
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I like to stick with at least 14 tooth in the front on KX500. I've found that if you go into the 13 tooth the chain starts wearing very hard into the rub plate and will go into the swingarm. 14/47 seems to be a good combo that works on all kinds of terrain, I feel Kawi engineers did their homework on that one for us. 4 teeth on the back sprocket is about equal to 1 tooth on the front so a 14/51 would be about the same to a 13/47.