KX Riders
General => In General... => Topic started by: kwakman on January 04, 2009, 02:26:38 PM
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My 86 has a clutch that requires a two finger pull, which is all well and good at standstill but when you want to clutch her up at speed, your grip on the bars is compromised.
Not a good thing when shes coming on strong....
I,m gonna lengthen the clutch arm by 7mm, but does anyone know of another model/brand which has a higher ratio lever?
I'm listening.....
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Only 2 fingers....I'm impressed. Someone out there made a little gizmo that went between the short cable and the long one. It allowed you to change ratios easly. I don't know if it is still out there or not. I had one on my 86 500....back in 87.
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This my setup, work's very nice.
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I like....
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Is this what you're refering to? Easy Pull
http://www.mooseracing.com/catalog.jsp?level1=1756&level2=1782&level3=1784&level4=1800&product_group_id=7267
I understand the honda CR's have a different lever ratio. I have a Honda CR aof clutch on my KX5.
I have noticed several other guys use their middle finger to work the clutch and that would appear to give you a better "Hang on" for yer life grip on the bars.
Unfortunately it doesn't feel right to me. I have started my daughter riding with "The Bad Finger" on her 50, and mountain bike brake so she doesn't know any different.
Tuck\o/
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Kawsf, is that a Magura hydralic clutch ? John
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Is this what you're refering to? Easy Pull
http://www.mooseracing.com/catalog.jsp?level1=1756&level2=1782&level3=1784&level4=1800&product_group_id=7267
I understand the honda CR's have a different lever ratio. I have a Honda CR aof clutch on my KX5.
I have noticed several other guys use their middle finger to work the clutch and that would appear to give you a better "Hang on" for yer life grip on the bars.
Unfortunately it doesn't feel right to me. I have started my daughter riding with "The Bad Finger" on her 50, and mountain bike brake so she doesn't know any different.
Tuck\o/
That was the Gizmo in question. If I remember right it was hard to get a good compromise between easy and not disengaging. If you look at the Moose web site regarding it, one of the last things that they mention is to check disengagement. :?
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I found that extending the actuator arm 8mm made a big difference. You can also reroute the clutch cable. I did that but was doubtful that it helped enough to justifiy the bother. Adding a nice terrycable or similar quality teflon lined cable can also help a bit.
You can't take the clutch lever leverage for granted, it can make quite a difference. For ex. On my sons XR100 (first bike with clutch for him) the clutch perch was broken when we got it so I put on cheapy aftermarket perch and lever. The aftermaket one made the leverage too high, making the XR100 clutch pull far harder than a stock KX500. I ended up welding up the broken stocker. CR perch/lever have a nice ratio. Cam.
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i find that my 91 k5 has by far the lightest clutch pull i have ever had on any bike but as far as lever ratios untill like 4 days ago i thought all levers were the same
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Something I forgot to mention. I was looking over the cable on my AF, which is stock KX500, and comparing it to the one on my 07 450. The 450 cable does not have such a radical bend in it as it leaves the engine....the steel part. I am going to try putting a new KX450 cable on it to get rid of the bend. Less bend = less friction.
K5for-life....Go squeeze a new kx450f or a (hate to say it) CRF450 they are nice.
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Something I forgot to mention. I was looking over the cable on my AF, which is stock KX500, and comparing it to the one on my 07 450. The 450 cable does not have such a radical bend in it as it leaves the engine....the steel part. I am going to try putting a new KX450 cable on it to get rid of the bend. Less bend = less friction.
K5for-life....Go squeeze a new kx450f or a (hate to say it) CRF450 they are nice.
well i guess i have not had the chance to ride a 450 yet only CRF250R and a KTM250sxf i dint like any on then but back on topic my k5 still has the lightest pull on them
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My opinion is to stay away from the easy pull, I used one many years ago and had a Very inconsistent feel of clutch engagement, even though it did make it easier to pull. The best value is to buy a CR perch and lever (Use on all my bikes) they have a much better leverage ratio. Lightly grease the pivot bolt, perch, lever and cable barrel ends. Clean and Lube the cable with a Cable Luber with your choice of lube that will clean and lubricate. This little amount of maint will make an amazing difference on an Old stead, and keep a new one feeling new. But of course the Easiest mod (and expensive) is to go Hydraulic as pictured above.
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My local shop has one of them there gizmos but the guy says they arent that great. Anybody?
I have a teflon lined cable, kept surgically clean and lubed better than a house of ill repute, which I've re routed for least resistance, amd I'm gonna buy a CR perch and lever tomorrow. When I've got the motor apart I'm gonna polish the arm face and the pushrod face it contacts, and if that aint enough, I lok like gettin a gizmo too....
On the bright side tho, I can open food tins with my left hand like Popeye does spinach..... :-D
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Hello John,
Yes this is a magura,from a 300 ktm.The case has been machined to accept the magura slave cylinder.DoldGuy is right about the easypull,it just makes for alot different feel.When you lenthing the arm it will make it easer to pull,but then you have to pull the lever further to disingage the clutch.This will make the clutch heat up a lot faster.This is why i had to do something different.It cost to have this set up,but nothing you do to to the cable setup will ever work the way this will.I ride a lot of tight woods,so this was a must have for me.I can abuse the clutch all i want it it always feels the same,plus the pull is very light.I have this on two of my bikes,never had to do anything to it but change the fluid for more than ten years.I could never go bake to the cable after using this.
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Kawsf,
Trail Ridden?? :roll: I think that K5 is a Garage Queen :-D You did a VERY clean setup on that. I have seen the others that are "bolt ons" and the looked very??? unfinished??? How big of a problem was it fitting the slave cylinder??? Again, love the setup :-D
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Thank's DoldGuy,the bike in the picture is a 96 540 that i restored,i dont even ride it.I have another one that has a unreal amount of miles on it.I have a friend thats a welder and a machinist,told him what i wanted and it did it with no problem.The case was cut down almost all the way to the mainshaft bearing,then he welded a peace of billet aluminum to the case and then bored it for the slave cylinder.With this you have to run a 13th sprocket so the chain will clear.I run a 13/43 gearing.Here is a picture of the old bike,it also has a 95 honda complete front end.
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If you search old posts by Paul or Rick (the original KX500 masters) you will find the clutch cable reroute mod. Essentially you reroute the cable so it stays on the clutch side of the front downtube. You have to put the stock metal bend in a vise and carefully "unbend" it a bit - which makes the pull easier. If the 450 cable fits, and has less bend it might make that mod even easier. Who want to test that and report back? Could be a nice enhancement. My KX500 clutch pull with the 8mm extended lever, the cable mod, stock lever, and DP clutch springs (a tad springier than stock but about the same pull) is about the same as my 450, so it can be done. The overall action is better than my 450. I never felt a need for the magura setup on the K5 since I have never used a KTM one that I completely liked. But then I was bummed when my CBR900 didn't have one. Cam.
PS for someone with poor clutch action the fingers of the clutch basket could be grooved, which prevent the plates from sliding smoothly. Bikes with lots of miles can get that.
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Your right CAM.
The K5 has a nice clutch and feels not heavy if you ask me.
When the clutch hub and basket are worn, al bikes get heavy lever pull.
Keep the cable clutch perch and lever clean. I use a billet adjusteble clutch perch with CR lever.
It looks like the cr lever combo is in the first few mm heavy and than it loosens. A bit like
a compound bow, as in bow and arrow.
dutch
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kawsf
That a great mod for the guys that run big clutch springs. It sucks that you have to run 13T sprocket.
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It has been a while sence I ordered my custom Motion Pro cable for my AF. I did a test to compare the clutch pull and here is what I found.
KX450f: ASV levers, New Motion Pro cable: 6.2 LBS
KX500AF: ASV levers, New Motion Pro Cable ( Stock KX500 cable): 12.4 LBS
KX500AF : ASV levers, New Motion Pro Cable (Custom Motion Pro Cable): 12.5 BS
I had consulted with Motion Pro and ask them to build me a cable without the 90 deg. steel section. I was hoping that the lack of the bend would make it a little easyer to pull. It did not work out as I thought it would.
The test was done with a digital scale and the pull was measured in dynamicly mid way through the travel.
All that came of the test was a new part number for a Motion Pro cable and a few less bucks in my packet.
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Those are good solid pull numbers to know. My KX500 with the cable reroute mod (I took away much of the 90 by careful bending) and 10mm extended arm, original 92 cable, stock lever felt about the same pull as my red 450. The overall "feel" of my K5 clutch is better than the 450, more progressive. What kind of digital scale did you use? Cam.
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I have been using a PEP Lever on all of my bikes for the last 10 or so years with good results. I havent tried it on the 500 yet but I will when its completed. Its basically a CR lever with another hole drilled in it to change the leverage ratio. Also, I found that the clutch cable from an 03/04 KX250 2s will fit and doesnt have the metal tube. The only negative that I have found with the lever is that it has a tendency to fray the cable because there is a somewhat sharp edge where the cable makes the bend to the new hole. I take a dremel and round out the edge, this helps but I still keep an eye on the cable. In about 15 enduros, I usually replace the cable once.
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a65/thumper4str/KX500MFR019.jpg)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a65/thumper4str/KX500MFR020.jpg)
That Steahly fww is nasty and coming off for a good cleaning! But here is the 04 250 cable mounted on the 500.
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a65/thumper4str/KX500MFR021.jpg)
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MSR sells the raptor lever and perch combo it gives you up to a 325% easier pull. They are a little pricey , around $50, We've been using them for years.
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Cam, The scale I used for this was a fish scale 0-30 lbs. I also use it to refill my paintball cylinders. :-D
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Jerry,
I never thought of filling them at home. How do you fill paintball cyl at home, what is your setup? I have nitrogen or did you get a co2 cylinder. Cam.
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I like the Honda Levers and ratios on a cable bike. This is the set-up you get from a Magura that just mounts and no mods needed. works awesome with the steel braided line (comes with meltable plastic so protect from exhaust). Love it on my 500, it was a tough pull before, now is super smooth, didn't work for some reason on my 250. Never figured out why exactly. You'd be happy with the Magura on the 500.
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Cam,
I have a C02 cylinder that I used to use for welding. I would hang it upside down so that I could get liquid out. I bought a filling gizmo off Ebay. I have since traded my welding cylinder in for one that has a siphon tube in it so that I do not have to turn it upside down. I do still fill NOS cylinders with non-siphon bottles because I'm cheep and you can get the last drop out with them upside down. C02 is cheep. You do need liquid C02. If you use nitrogen it will not last long at all. When 20oz of C02 boils it creates many cubic feet of gas.
http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-CMI-2-VALVE-FILL-STATION_W0QQitemZ120404079991QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item120404079991&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A570%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 (http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-CMI-2-VALVE-FILL-STATION_W0QQitemZ120404079991QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item120404079991&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A570%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)
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Flyin Hawaiian, that is basically the same set-up I use with the CR lever and another hole drilled for easier clutch pull. I also like the way the MSR Raptor clutches that CBX uses have the optional holes, but the leverfeels too fat for my smaller hands. Thats why I prefer the CR set-up.
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Jerry - Cam , just go all out and get the 100lb fill tank , yea its huge but when you're filling little tanks it just seems like its never gonna go empty - the full tank weighs about 400lbs
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Ok guys, this is a great point although I have owned a kx 500 from 85 to my 2001 thats 16 five hundreds I have owned, I dont consider myself a no it at all infact I know nothing but how to turn the throttle. Anyway after reading some of these posts and trust me I am not trying to sound negaitve but the 500 has a monster clutch and takes a monster grip to race a bike 100 plus miles using a " two. finger " pull. im sorry but nowway. after sitting down the last 20 miles and not being able to stand over the woops let alone even use the clutch it would be awesome to give something a shot...jfab ( sorry I dont know your name ) did the tests and proved somethings mentioned DO NOT work I trust his judgement. While racing at a adelonto grand prixs one year I sturck up a convo with Mr larry Rossler. he informed me the only things he does to his 500 was two install 2 head gaskets some porting and polishing. and extensive teem green suspension. He also lenghten the clutch actuatator arm on the motor itself. Although this was some time ago is it still the only sure way to go?
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maybe some information for us to consider....magura Hydrolic clutch $200.00 for UP TO 20 % easier clutch pull......
Magura Hydraulic Clutch for KAWASAKI KX500 1990?2004
No more pressure point fading
Self adjusting
Up to 20% less lever pull required
Less maintenance
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Also, if you look at your clutch basket and hub, the wear from the clutches on both, cause alot of the extra pull. Hinson baskets and hubs are harder than OEM and resists forming the ridges like on OEM parts. The Magura is alot easier than stock set-up, but if you ride hard enough, you're forearm will still feel it. I'm just sayin' it helps.
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Is this what you're refering to? Easy Pull
http://www.mooseracing.com/catalog.jsp?level1=1756&level2=1782&level3=1784&level4=1800&product_group_id=7267
I understand the honda CR's have a different lever ratio. I have a Honda CR aof clutch on my KX5.
I have noticed several other guys use their middle finger to work the clutch and that would appear to give you a better "Hang on" for yer life grip on the bars.
Unfortunately it doesn't feel right to me. I have started my daughter riding with "The Bad Finger" on her 50, and mountain bike brake so she doesn't know any different.
Tuck\o/
The pivot to cable end is virtually identical between the CR and KX levers, so there is not any mechanical advantage. They feel the same also.
Your best bet on increasing the leverage ratio at the lever is to drill a hole closer to the lever pivot, or to use the MSR raptor lever.
Any of the builders interested in making a factory KX style billet extended clutch arm, Jfab or Stewart?
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Im tryin to sort this out and we may have been over this before but... The MSR raptor claims a 325% easier clutch pull for about $44.00 and the Magura hydraulic claims about 20% easier clutch pull for $200.00. Am I getting this right? Id like to hear from somone who has tried both the Magura and the MSR. Does the MSR raptor live up to its claims? I've already heard several positive reviews from guys using the Magura setup. :?
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^ what he said
I am leaning towards a longer lever and the MSR raptor.
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As Power stated: Your best bet on increasing the leverage ratio at the lever is to drill a hole closer to the lever pivot, or to use the MSR raptor lever.
Personally I have my lever drilled with the extra hole just because I am not comfortable with the Raptor lever. It is noticable thicker than a standard lever and with smaller hands I just prefer a standard lever.
And yes, the raptor does live up to being a lot easier to pull.
As for the Magura, the only hydraulic clutch I've used was on a KTM drag bike and hated it. i just didnt think I had a good feel for the clutch action. (It may have been better, if I got used to it)