KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: Hillclimb#42 on August 25, 2007, 03:13:03 AM
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Anyone ever heard of these chains with no master-link, or for you guys across the pond connecting link?
I ordered a sprocket/ chain combo for the 250 and was informed the standard o-ring chain was out of stock, but they could upgrade to a x-ring chain. When it arrived it was a very impressive gold and looked a little heavier duty. I broke out the new chain breaker, put it all together, and looked for the clip for about 30 min. I was about to look thru the trash can, when I looked at the little master link pak and it had printed on there that there was no clip. It said it was a rivot type connecting link. I actually used the chain breaker to press the link together. which brings up another question. How do you guys press your master links together? It seems getting it together takes as long as mounting sprockets, cutting chain and adjusting chain does combined. Anyways, its been on there for about a month, and its pretty hard to even find on the chain, except for small circles left from my chain breaker. I thought I was the only one who had never heard of such a thing, but it turns out, that noone has seen or used this chain "upgrade." Anyone use these, or heard of them, afraid it will fly off or know why its better?
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Rivet type link is common. Basically if you run a good quality front/rear sprocket that will last a season the theory is to replace the combo (chain/sprockets) at the same time. Or whenever your sprockets look tired. You need to have a rivet tool to properly set the stake or the link will be loose and fall off resulting in a most unpleasant situation.
What I do is always order the chain I run with a standard master link, it usually is an option. If you are unable to you can usually order from the same supplier a standard master link for around $5-$10 and dump the rivet link.
There are alot of opinions out there on the life span of a good quality chain. I run softer Renthal (and other makes) aluminum rear sprockets since this prolongs the lifespan of my chains ($30 on ebay for a sprocket compared to $115 for a chain). The rearend is submerged in sand at times during my dune rides causing increased wear. I have a new chain and sprockets on standby and will compare the old chain to the new one by length (sometimes I will measure the overall length of the new chain before installing if I remember). If the old one is about a half a link longer (2 1/2 percent rule of thumb longer than new) then it is time to replace it. But usually when I put on the new rear sprocket (three times a season and once for the front a season) I just see if I can pull the chain away from the teeth after it is set close to sag. If you can pull the chain more than 1/4" or rock it back and forth more than and 1/8" its time to change it. Of course this is just my way and not scientific by any means. I use a D.I.D., EK, or Renthal X-Ring and get two years out of the chains.
Sly
Here is the motion pro kit: http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/tools/chain_breaker_and_riveting_tool/
(http://www.motionpro.com/images/groups/71.jpg) (http://www.denniskirk.com/denniskirk/b2c/product_images/1/1/9/150pix/119339.jpg)
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The rivet link chains are more commonly used on street bikes and large cc enduro style bikes. After you press the master link together It has to be staked with a special tool like the one FurisouSly posted a picture of. Did you flare the pins with a link tool? I did not see anywhere the mention of this very important step, not doing this Is like not tightening your axle nut, not good.If you have not flared the pins with special tool do not ride the bike anymore until you have done this. :-o
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I have been using x-ring chains for about six years because I dont like to over oil my chains. I have not used the rivot style master link yet, but have heard that they are stronger. I simply use a regular x-ring master link. My last chain lasted for over three hundred gallons of fuel. They outlast sprockets and sprockets. I am using the D.I.D. brand and have no experience with other brands.
Make sure your master link pins have been peined over well so the end plate does not fall off. Or just put a regular x-ring master link on it.
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I use a small closed end wrench and a pair of vise grips to press the outter plate on. Put the closed end of the wrench over the pin and against the plate. Place the vise grips on the wrench and the other side of the pin and press it together.
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You'll love how long the x-ring / 0-ring chains last. I don't buy the high end chains but use the primary drive brand from rockymountainatvmc.com and they last forever and half the cost.
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I'd have to agree with BDI and say not to ride until you get the link ends properly flared. I don't think the chain breaker is intended to do that, at least mine won't. Rivet links are normal on street bike since the ramifications of the chain comming off at high speed would be spectacular. I would suggest ordering the regular master link for the chain (get 3 so you have some spares). I always use the absolute best chain I can buy especially for a 500. I my racing days I could get a whole race day without any chain adjustment out of the top end Tsubaki and phenominal multi-season chain life - so I still use the most expensive Tsubaki I can get today on my KX. I dont ride as much or as hard so my latest chain has been on for 9 years or so and still going strong. Unfortunately the Tsubaki is WAY more expensive than other brands. There is likely a far better bang for the buck out there than what I do. Cam.
ps a side effect of a top quality chain is that it has less side to side play so you get less subframe wear.
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X-ring chains are great, there is very little drag even when cold. I used a vise grip that I welded a nut on one side then ground the other side so it sits square, the plates press on like a dream. I use a 530 chain on the big bike, when looking for the right chain I researched strength, interestingly most 530 and 520 chain has about the same tensile strength, something in the range of 7500-8500 lbs. I wanted something that would handle 165 hp and a big paddle tire, so I chose a 530 RK chain, it has a clip style mastelink and is rated for Drag racing with 11000 lbs tensil strength. I personally don't want anything that I will have to rivet, while I'm sure it is much better than the clip, it's not for me. For me, I use Renthal chains, they are made by Regina
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I'm glad I asked. I will be getting flared or some master-links pronto. I hate to think of how much time is already on this chain with no security :-P I have seen some ugly results of chains coming off. Also good tips on the chain presses. Glad to see that I actually got a nice upgrade, but it probably could have came with a normal master and been just as impressive.
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Holly crap! you really did not stake the the master Link? I was hoping you just left that part out of your post. You are one lucky Hillclimber. I have seen chains come off and spit out on the ground and I have seen them wad up in front of the counter shaft sprocket and destroy the cases It's a role of the dice when your chain comes off. I saw a gsxr1100 wad the chain one time In second gear at about 10,000 rpm It turned that bike Into a parts bike Instantly. :-o
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X-ring chains are great, there is very little drag even when cold.
Sorry I have to disagree. There is a HUGE amount of resistance when O-ring chains are cold as compared to roller versions. However once an O ir X ring chain warms up, the resistance is far less.
I have a Regina X ring on my 500 currently, and they are one TOUGH chain!
The only disadvantage to X ring chains that I have experienced over the years is the wider links will cause the "U" clip to drag along the rear swingarm chain guide buffer, which wears down the clip, possible causing the clip to break and pop off, and snap goes your chain! I ususally need to replace the "U" clip once a year....
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It seems to free-wheel as easy as ever when cold, Polar, and my u-clip always shows wear on typical o-ring chains too. I think that is debris in chain guide and around case saver on front-sprocket. I think the clip will last as long as the chain, as long as you're not pulling it apart all of the time. Just be sure not to bend it and put it on with the open end towards the back. It has to stay on longer than my chain will with no staking or clip. :-D
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Resistance is not an issue. Maybe a pro level rider like ricky c. #4 might be able to tell the diff. between chains but not us normal moto guys
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An O-ring chain might have more resistance but It keeps the same amount of resistance for much of It's life cycle. A non O-ring chain has less resistance when Its new but as It whares out the resistance gets worse and worse. I would say about half way threw It's life cycle It has more resistance then any O-ring chain X or not. If you are a factory guy who gets a new chain every couple of races, go non O-ring. If you are a normal human and you want a chain that lasts with consistent performance for much of It's life, go O-ring
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At one time we had a sponsorship with RK chain, The engineer tried his darndest to get me to use the x ring chain, he swore that the RK X ring chain did NOT have any more resistance than the standard, he couldn't convince me but none the less that was his claim. I did use one on a k5, I would say on the stand cold it turned over harder, after 5 min of riding I couldn't tell any difference.
Add a new twist, what do you use for chain lube? I use Maxima chain wax.
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Chain wax is the worst thing you can use on an off road chain, as it traps dirt. All's i've ever used in conjunction with an O or X ring chain is some WD-40 to lube the outer rollers.
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O-ring and X-ring chains are for the most part maintenance free. I do use chain lube out of habit. I have used the wd-40 many times. I use the chain lube or wd-40 just to keep the chain from rusting. But their is still metal to metal contact with chain and sprockets so lube is still useful IMO.
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I knew this would generate some discussion, As I said I don't run O-ring chains as a rule. As far as chain wax, best stuff I've used, and like all lubes you need to use it properly. Yeah, I've used belray, Pj1, motul, kawasaki and others, I hate most brands because of the flinging. If you find something you don't like, don't use it.
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i always use an o-ring chain. if you use a non o-ring chain for too long and it gets worn, it increases in total length. an increase in length means that each link is now longer. that will in turn excelerate the wear on your sprocket more than just normal wear.
whether or not i use chain lube depends on the dirt type i'll be riding in. if im riding a hard packed trail(not much dust) i'll use some bel-ray "superclean" chain lube (awesome stuff). it dries to the touch in a couple minutes , ends up like a dry grease. bel ray says this lube repels dirt and sand but i dont believe that. if i ride in soft fluffy dirt then i clean the chain off and run the chain dry so i dont get any extra sprocket wear from dirt adhesion to the lube. did i mention that i used to work for bel ray? they really do have great lube products. this method seems to work well for me. MADDOGGY
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regardless of what type of chain you run you have to lube the rollers. On my street bikes O-ring chain after about 600 miles the back wheel will only make one revolution when you spin It on the stand. Right after I lube the rollers with chain lube the back wheel easily make ten pluss revolutions. If you lube a chain any where else other then the rollers all you are doing Is giving dirt something to stick to you can't get grease back inside the pins of a chain where It counts by spraying It all over the out side of your chain. It Is also best to lube your chain when It Is hot from riding because the heat draws the lube inside the rollers. I like to lube my chain after I ride instead of before. I do this even If I plan On washing my bike It helps to keep water out of the rollers then I lightly lube the chain rollers after washing.
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bdi, do you lube the chain even when you ride in the sand or fluffy material?
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Yes but I do not go crazy with It I only lube the rollers. chain lube Is one of those less Is more things. The did X-ring chain has been on my kx500 sand bike for years It actually came off the kx500 my engine came out of ( my old sand bike) and It Is still good.
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I go for a short warm-up ride to loosen the chain and also use the Bel-Ray Super clean. It is that..."super clean". It seems to keep the chain lookig new, anyways. I don't really know how much better it is because I always use chain lube. Oh yeah, WD-40 is good for loosening rust, but is not a lube. Actually ot is corrosive and will help rust. If you use it, you should follow up with something thats oil-based.
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i agree hillclimb, wd40 will not protect against rust and is not a good high pressure/performance lube. bdi, i do agree that chains need regular lubing but i don't lube mine when i run in sand or fluff. i actually try to clean the chain as good as i can when i run in these types of materials. i just don't like the wear on sprockets that results from dirt/sand sprocket contact. i guess something has to wear no matter what. i've been wrong a time or two. don't think its win/win either way. MADDOGGY
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Yes I agree thoroughly about the w-D forty. Check out how the sand wares the chain flat over time but dont be fooled this chain Is still good. The chain gets flattened from sand getting between the links and the rubber guides. I try to keep the guides free of lube with brake cleaner and a rag so sand does not stick and cause this but It Is inevitable.
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If I did not use lube On my chain It would have been toast a couple years ago I assure you. but I lube my chain Then after It sets up I spray brake cleaner on a rag then wipe the chain and guides clean of lube that way their is lube In the rollers but not on the rollers. I also run iron man sprockets that are made from chromoly steel. This one was on my kx500 and ridden In the sand for two years and It was used when I got It. when It comes to chains and sprockets you get what you pay for.
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thats almost always true, you get what you pay for. i run aluminum sprockets in sand, i know they wear easily and fast but the chain is pricey and the alum. sprockets are fairly cheap. i've noticed my chains last longer ran in sand with that set up. i think that flat wear on the link edge will happen no matter what. its just the nature of that slide plate system on the swing arm of the kx's. on another note, if you run an o-ring chain for 5, 6 or maybe 8 years or more i would carefully inspect the chain looking at the o-rings the best you can looking for fatigued and cracked o-rings. chains can die quick if an oring fails. your sprockets would take a bad hit too especially if your along distance away from your truck. i inspect my chain at least once a year no matter if the bike just sits in the garage. MADDOGGY
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Im kind of fanatical when It comes to my sand bike. I inspect my chain and sprockets after every ride at the dunes along with every other nut and bolt on the bike I check the engine with a bore scope if I do not take It apart. I even pull the whole subframe just to clean the filter just so sand does not go down the intake when removing the air filter from the air box. then I clean the air box and intake boot with degreaser and water hose. All this goes hand In hand with all the other normal maintenance stuff.
P.S. I will have to ask that you please refrain from using the word fluffy actually can we make that a rule or something. :-D :-D :-D
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ok, no more fluffy :lol:. can we go with "loose" or something? :-D
MADDOGGY
by the way- i found the "filterskins" type material and covered my airbox with it at all openings. it really worked great at keeping the sand where it belongs. on the dune and not in my airbox. something to consider? i know, getting off the thread subject, sorry.
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you guys ever use the "sidewinder" chain/sprocket combo. i've heard great things about them but have never used them myself, kind of expensive too. then again, you get what you pay for. don't know if they offer x-ring chain or just regular o-ring. MADDOGGY
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I have heard some people call it bug dust but that does not make sense to me. I like to call anything that might fit the description of fluffy as silt. :lol: :lol: Any of the sprockets that are made with high quality steel like tool steel or chromoly last unbelievably long when combined with a high quality chain you will pay $300.00 or so but you will have that chain and sprocket set for years Instead of monthes.