KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: Rotorised on June 27, 2007, 07:36:56 PM
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Hey guys is anyone here running an alcoholic 500? :-D I have just removed my head and would like to explore my options befor altering sqwish angle and head volume. I will hopefully be running a lectron 44mm, any specs would be much appreciated :wink: . Are there any problems assosiated with running alcohol, I have read that it would use metho at 2-3times the rate of normal fuel?
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i spent weeks dyno testing my 44 lectron on achol and found i could make as much or a little better power and same tourqe on oxgenated vp race gas
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That was my first choice, but after looking at a few fuel prices i found the vp race gas at about $5 a liter and methanol at about $1 a liter. In Australia anyway, If anyone knows of any cheaper prices in Perth it would be much appreciated
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it takes about 2.4 times as much alky so that raises the price per mile
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Back in the 70's I ran my Montessa Capra 250 on pure Alcohol and caster bean oil. The bike smelled like a model airplane. I drill out the pilot jet to 3/16 and removed the main jet all together. I would just barely make one heat on 2 1/4 gal. It ran cool and produced so much power, that on the starting line it would bottom out the rear shocks just revving it up. Back then we ran 250 and open in the same heats and would beat everyone to the first corner by 8 to 10 bike lengths. I had a lot of nasty comments in the pits when I rode my model airplane by! He He!
Alan
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Be Prepared to rebuild often, but smells killer.
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Ever run VP Fuel thats oxidized? Everyone I race against runs the stuff and it smells nice and aparrently works well. You even catch wiffs of it like 2 hours after the race. MMMMMMMMM!!!! :mrgreen: Is that alcohol?
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Talked to a buddy, who is former pro, and he says Methanol is what you want. You need to use exactly 40% more fuel. So whatever it takes to jet out 40% bigger than you are now. Also, interesting factoid: Alcohol or, I guess Methanol draws moisture. It will draw moisture in and then the fuel evaporates, leaving you with water in the crank. Obvious problems, there if you leave it. They drained tanks, put pump gas mixture back in, ran it for a few minutes and then shut them off for next race. He said that when doing that they ran like crap, because they were jetted for Methanol.
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Cheers for the helpful info guys, a few more questions: If i buy a 44gallon drum of methanol will i have any problems with it going off or absorbing moisture over a few months? Also what sort of rebuild intervals would I be looking at?
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if you decide to go the alky route call packard racing and have him set you up with his 44mm hv carb with the adjustable power jet.he'll give you a starting point(usually 2.48mm i believe).opinions vary on how often to purge system.just pull down a banshee on alky thats run just 5 races,purging after each.cases look like tarnish from alky and moisture.use either maxima 927 or klotz super technicplate.NOT R-50!!just my 2 cents of thought.
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Well I usually run Motul 800, I've never actually seen maxima or klotz for sale in Australia. We can get the belrays and Fuchs/Silkolene though.
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Turns out That I was confusing nitro-methane stories with methanol. Nitro-methane acts like liquid sand paper to cylinder and piston. So I guess you won't be rebuilding as often as I thought. The fuel in drum will be fine as long as it is sealed tight. He brought up the point that there's no telling how long it had already been in the drum. You get problems after it is able to evaporate. I'm kinda the middle man here, not the expert, and I'd have him on here directly except he rides Hondas. :lol:
He also pointed out that VP fuel is just really high octane pump gas.
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He also pointed out that VP fuel is just really high octane pump gas.
I would say your friend has not run VP fuels, they are not just high octane pump gas, go to the VP website and read up on the fuels. If you've ever run U2, U4, or CMG you wouldn't think they are high octane pump gas. Octane works well for detonation, consequently you can build a higher compression motor with no detonation, the fuel doesn't make more horsepower its the motor modifications. On the other hand the new fuels don't have high octane numbers, but are oxygenated and DO produce more horsepower.
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vp is more than high octane pump gas
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I've run methanol in AMA Superbikes with no problems once jetted. I mixed my fuel 80%methanol, 20% tolulene and 2oz marvel mystery oil per gallon. Bike ran marginal on cloudy cool days but, hot/humid 85 plus weather look out.
Have not run U2 in my K5 but, VP C12 is off the hook once jetted for it.
Good luck
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He also pointed out that VP fuel is just really high octane pump gas.
I would say your friend has not run VP fuels, they are not just high octane pump gas, go to the VP website and read up on the fuels. If you've ever run U2, U4, or CMG you wouldn't think they are high octane pump gas.
You are probably right that he doesn't know the composition of the fuel, but this was his response to me asking him if VP was alcohol based. I'm the one with the least experience, so I'm trying my best to have helpful comments without talking too much about what I have no idea about. Thank you for the education on the VP. My buddy has been racing since the mid 80's, (amatuer and Pro Hillclimb)and has alot of accumulated knowledge, but obviously not a genius. I like the smell and the power of the oxidizers and all that, but I race and ride for fun on the same bikes and feel good about my current jetting and fuel bills. We both have seen guys buying 5 gallon pales for 80 bucks and then fighting with jetting and not always faster. Some day I hope to have race bikes and play bikes. Then I will definately do my homework, and figure out which fuel will haul the mail the best. I take it you use the oxidized VP to race, what about trail riding?
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For trailriding I use VP C-12 50/50. I don't use the same bikes for competition and trail riding 4t for the trails 2t for hillclimbing, well at least for the most part, we have a 04 ZX-10 used in the open classes
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Hey guys cheers for the input, this info is gold. Stewart did you say you have run methanol before? If so is there any chance you could help me out with some head measurements, eg( squish angle, head volume etc). I am in new territories now and have no real idea hahaha :?. If it helps, so far i have a gnarly dessert pipe, v-force 3 reeds, 88mm bore, I will cut the port window in the piston and I will be getting a lectron 44mm carb. Cheers guys :mrgreen:
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I've run methanol in AMA Superbikes with no problems once jetted. I mixed my fuel 80%methanol, 20% tolulene and 2oz marvel mystery oil per gallon. Bike ran marginal on cloudy cool days but, hot/humid 85 plus weather look out.
Have not run U2 in my K5 but, VP C12 is off the hook once jetted for it.
Good luck
I was gonna bring up Marvel Mystery Oil... we run methanol powered Sprint Cars (1375 lbs with driver and 927 horsepower).. the power to weight ratio is killer!
Anyway, it's a MUST to run Marvel through anything that had Methanol in it an stored for any short/long period.. If not, it WILL get a calcified look to it.. We also add a top-end lubricant to every drum of methanol, but, I suspect that would not be necessary with two-stroke mixture..
And, everyone is correct - the smell is to die for! Just don't smoke around it - you'll not SEE the flame but you d**n sure will feel it! (personal experience talking here)...
Mark
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iran it for weeks on dyno in 44 lectron rangood but i could make as much hp withvp u2 or cmp gas with less trouble
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Yes I agree the vp, U2 or cmp fuels sound better, but for my case it will be less than half the price to run methanol, so thats the route I will have to take. Also how much have you guys paid for your lectron 44mm carbs?
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400.00 with the cable and throtell assembly and power jet
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Is that through packard racing?
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yes
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Hey guys I just spoke to denis packard about a lectron 44mm carb and apparently i will need a fuel pump of some sort. What are you guys here running? Also I have done some reading on the site and have chosen to run the head at 4 degrees sqwish and 36cc volume, does this sound right?
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Anyone :?