KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: chrisorbics on June 16, 2007, 04:44:36 PM
-
Hi I have a 1986 Kawasaki kx500 works replica that is mint and completely stock. It is all stock and has barely any time on it since new. I ride in the woods and as soon as I got the bike I wanted to get a lighting coil and put a kdx200 headlight on it. Then I wanted to get a steahly flywheel weight and a moose reed spacer.
Now I have taken the bike out twice and I have still not done anything to the bike. I am at the point where I can either modify the bike to make it better for what I want to do with it or I can sell it and get something that would be better for me.
The reason I am look for opinions I because I feel like I have something that is meant to go fast all of the time and where I ride it is just not possible to go fast all of the time and that I could have a different bike and go the same speed. I always felt like I should get a suzuki rmx 250, kawasaki kdx250, or a yamaha wr250r.
Am I waisting the speed and power potential if I do not have this bike all out blasting past everybody else all of the time? Should I modify this bike to make a little better torque for offroad ridding or should I sell it and get something that has a headlight, softer suspension, and is already set up for torque. Does anybody have or have ridden any of these 250 two stroke enduros. There is also the kdx200 but that seems a little small. I do not know what to do. Give me your opinion and suggestions.
Chris
-
Ive raced/ridden all of the bikes mentioned. They all worked well when setup properly. I raced an 88 KX 500 in enduros in 88-89. The only mods that i did to it were a flywheel weight, 2 base gaskets and had the head modified for a little less compression. It was very smooth and rideable. Still a little too big for our type of terrain. (extremely tight woods, Southern New Jersey has some of the tightest woods in the US) I switched to a KDX 200, which I left mostly stock except for a pipe and silencer. This bike worked very well. It got me into the A class. The early 90s KDX 250 had a great motor but wierd handling. It had a big tank that wouldnt let you get up forward to aid in turning. They werent very popular out here. The RMXs were great bikes and worked well especially when uncorked. One of my favorite bikes was the 94-97 Yamaha WR 250 2t. This bike had all kinds of motor but it also had the big tank, wierd handling issue of the KDX 250. Since the WR was basically a YZ 250, this was easily taken care of with a new tank and YZ seat. The KDX chassis was not based on the KX of that time and there was no easy fix. I had a custom carbon fibre tank made for it, but it was pricey at $400. The WR was bullet proof also. Ive also owned a bunch of converted CRs, YZs, and am currently back on KXs. All 250s. Keep in mind that I primarily raced most of these bikes, but all should work well for the casual trail rider and occasional racer. Do you have any pics of the 500?
-
The carbon fibre tank was for the WR not the KDX.
-
The flyin hawaiian has a good answer, but I've got to be the devil's advocate for a minute.
Apparently for the type of riding you do, and the skill that you're at. Maybe any of those bikes would do you just fine...I don't know?
But if I was your riding buddy, I'd be at your knees begging you not to get any of them. For the love of god!!
Let me just say size can be deceiving. You think the 200's would be too small? I'd beg to differ. On a dino the 200 will crank out a sliver less hp then those 250's, but they weigh 20 lbs less if I remember right and handle soo much better. Keep in mind I'm talking about late '90s 200's. The perimeter frame KDX's. I suppose as the hawaiian stated if those 250's are set up properly they might be ok. But IMO the 200's come plenty equipped for play and race applications from the factory. And you have more choices then just the KDX. My Dad's Gas Gas 200 is one of the finest off road bikes I've ever ridden. I've also very much enjoyed my friends KTM's as well. You can lug them when traction is hard to find and scream them like a 125 when traction is good if you'd like.
I just have to say that if you feel you need to go fast, a bigger motor isn't going to help you. The 200's are so well made anyone can get on them and haul ass through the sticks with the best of them. The don't have any weird quirks or handling traights. And it's not that difficult to build a 200 motor that will run with most "current" 250's.
My personnal bike is a '03 Service Honda (uh oh I said it). And I was hands down faster in the woods years ago aboard my '93 200 than I am now on my Honda.
If you're a guy who really needs more oomph than the 200 has got, I'd strongly suggest getting any 250 MXer and doing your flywheel weight, hand guard and 18" wheel conversion.
I wouldn't take a truck load of those 90's 250 woods bikes if they were given to me!
-
I agree, todays 200s run great. I tried out a KTM 200 not long ago and was surprised at how strong it felt! I myself still prefer the power of a 250. I can lug them down lower with out as much clutch abuse and be a little more lazy with them when I start to get tired. I also tried out a 06 KTM 300 last summer, which I liked alot. I just cant get myself on a KTM, I had a 250 EXC and had nothing but bad luck with it. Next years KTM 250 and 300EXCs are coming with E Start!
-
Hi thanks for all of the comments. I would love to get a ktm but I really do not have the money. They make some amazing machines. Gas gas also makes very high quality bikes but they also have a high price tag. I rode a 1991 kdx250 once years ago but it really was not running right so that does not help me. I have never ridden a kdx200 yet. Is there a big difference between the older and newer ones. I think they updated them in 1997. I would love to try a kdx200 or 220 out but I do not know anybody who has one. Keep the comments coming.
Chris
-
I rode a 1994 KX500 in the woods for many years. I don't race but ride for pleasure. You can ride them fast in the woods but the effort is greater than on a 200/250 size bike. They can be lugged around slow all day long and should you really need the power it is there. A flywheel weight and maybe some other personal preference mods and they will do whatever you ask of them.
Having said all that let me finish with this. My favorite woods bikes are my 525exc and KDX220. But there are still days when the KX500 is it.
-
Hi I have a 1986 Kawasaki kx500 works replica that is mint and completely stock. It is all stock and has barely any time on it since new. I ride in the woods and as soon as I got the bike I wanted to get a lighting coil and put a kdx200 headlight on it. Then I wanted to get a steahly flywheel weight and a moose reed spacer.
Now I have taken the bike out twice and I have still not done anything to the bike. I am at the point where I can either modify the bike to make it better for what I want to do with it or I can sell it and get something that would be better for me.
The reason I am look for opinions I because I feel like I have something that is meant to go fast all of the time and where I ride it is just not possible to go fast all of the time and that I could have a different bike and go the same speed. I always felt like I should get a suzuki rmx 250, kawasaki kdx250, or a yamaha wr250r.
Am I waisting the speed and power potential if I do not have this bike all out blasting past everybody else all of the time? Should I modify this bike to make a little better torque for offroad ridding or should I sell it and get something that has a headlight, softer suspension, and is already set up for torque. Does anybody have or have ridden any of these 250 two stroke enduros. There is also the kdx200 but that seems a little small. I do not know what to do. Give me your opinion and suggestions.
Chris
This all kinda hinges on the level of speed you are looking to achieve in the woods. You didn't really say if you intend to race, or just play woods ride. They are 2 different animals. If you intend to race, be prepared to have the task of a lot of mods like a flywheel weight, gearing change, and suspension revalving, and lighting upgrade. After all this you still have a heavy 240ish lb torque tractor of a bike. It will become a physically abusive bike over a long enduro. The KX500 was engineered as a high speed desert weapon, not really a woods bike. Just casual fun woods riding however is all together different, I would just add a flywheel weight, gear down like 14/50, soften up all the compression clickers, and go have fun. I have spent a lot of time in the woods with my 500 and on a fun level they are a blast in the woods once some mods are done ! Good luck
-
Good input some everybody. I don't race but I ride at race pace. I ride with boys that run yz250's, yz250f's, kx250's and I can run with these boy neck and neck in the tight woods on my 500 but it takes more effort on my part to keep up the speed. When the trail opens up watch out the 87 500 coming. I'm in the same spot as you. I'm looking to get a newer 250 2-stroke for woods riding (250 2-strokes are so easy to ride in the woods) but now my current bike is fun and paid for and adding little things to the bike to make it run better is cheap at this time until I can swing a new bike. Your bike will and can work great in the woods.
-
I am a little over a year into owning my kx500. I used to ride an RMX250 and sold it for the 500. I am not yet sure it was a good move. The 250 was a good machine was not quite the handful the 500 is but I honestly do not notice much of a difference. I have a flywheel on it as well and it runs like a tractor. The only problem is I can seem to dial the carb in to get it to run correctly after it gets hot and that screwed me in me last harescramble. (Well it wasnt like I was battling for position but it was still a bummer). My take is this:
For me the 500 when riden correctly can hid a lot of poor riding habits and bad skill such as not using the clutch properly to maintain power. To get something with the horsepower to lug up hills that do not have a lt of runout on the botom I would have to spend a lot of money that I do not have so the 500 was the cheapest option. If I was a better rider, I would probably want a 200 as the are more suited for many of the trails I ride and the harescrambles around here. I ride in southern Ohio.
I would still keep my 500 as hillclimbing on that thing is a blast.
-
Well now your going about it right but there is an option that nobody has mentioned.
The limiting factor to the 500 in just about every situation is its old tech chassis.
How about putting that badboy of a motor in a newer KX250 chassis? The 99/02 are pretty easy swaps and those bikes can be had for cheap if you find a roller.
Then once you get the motor swap done throw on a flywheel weight and go shred the singletrack.
I don't know, maybe I'm wrong but that would be one nice trail machine IMO.
-
Thats also a sweet idea. That and the KTM's, but way too much loot. Back to "keep the 500 or sell it for a kdx!?" I almost bought a kdx before I bought my 250. Everyone is right that they are zippy, like a 250, ...almost. 250's are head and shoulders faster than a 200. And a 500 is that much faster than a 250.
If it is dollar to dollar comparisons though, the k5 is cheapest to buy. As far as rideability, its always a money issue. Suspension, Steering stabilizer, new rubber, gearing and even stuff like bark-busters and reed spacers make it ride close to a 250. My 500 is real close to my 250, except that the k5's weight and the surge, make it harder to stop. Alot of guys recommend a flywheel weight to control the power some. I personally got rid of mine, because I believe that it adds to the surge that they have. For better roll-on power I recommend, shifting up one gear!!! :-P
-
Hi thanks for all the comments. I really enjoy reading everybodies input.
I am just trail ridding and I have never raced. I am not into motocross or a lot of jumping. I really enjoy going on a nice long trail ride and seeing how fast I can go sometimes. There are other times where I will go out ridding with my buddy who only has an xr200 and I have to slow it way down. Even at slow speeds this bike really is not that bad to ride. I have owned a lot of 125 race bikes and they suck in the woods unless you are going all out and abusing the clutch.
As far as what c-152 had to say he is exactly right. These bikes are such a bargan. If you started puting money into another smaller bike you could not make it close to as fast without spending a lot of money. This bike is a torqe monster. I love not having to shift all of the time either. Every other motocross bike I have owned or ridden was just anoying to ride. You would have to shift constantly.
I am starting to think maybe I will save up some money and try and get an older kdx200. My problem is money. I got my bike for less than what it is worth because the front and back wheels were both cracked and the bike had been sitting for a long time.
BigGreenMachine has a great idea. This engine is great but the handling is not the best. The thing I can not get past is tearing apart an extremely low hour all original and stock bike. It is not everyday that you see a 1986 kx500 that is all original. I even have the original title. Still a good idea but I just cannot do it.
I like what you had to say Hillclimb#42. The engine surge is crazy on this bike. It really takes some getting used to. Why do 500 two strokes do that. It really is scary when trying to stop.
Keep the comments coming. I have two pictures I am going to try and put on here. I also have some links to some short videos. I will make more videos and take more pictures very soon.
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o94/chrisorbicsebay/kx_500_2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o94/chrisorbicsebay/kx_500_3.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>
-
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o94/chrisorbicsebay/kx_500_2.jpg)
-
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o94/chrisorbicsebay/kx_500_3.jpg)
-
<object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowScriptAccess="never" allowNetworking="internal" height="350" width="425" data="http://www.youtube.com/v/yj4FGmUZxmk">
<param name="allowScriptAccess" value="never" />
<param name="allowNetworking" value="internal" />
<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yj4FGmUZxmk" />
</object>
-
http://youtube.com/watch?v=H4q8zw3JTDU (http://youtube.com/watch?v=H4q8zw3JTDU)
-
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jNfnO3sjaFc&mode=related&search= (http://youtube.com/watch?v=jNfnO3sjaFc&mode=related&search=)
-
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WHf6_4r1tpE&mode=related&search= (http://youtube.com/watch?v=WHf6_4r1tpE&mode=related&search=)
-
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Uxy48FcIT8s (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Uxy48FcIT8s)
-
That is in good shape, chrisorbics!!!!! Thats wild that my 97 is basically the same bike. I think the surge is from MASSIVE crank and stroke. I thought it was a lean condition for a little while, until I learned that is just a trait of the k5's. You have to use the clutch to stop and it tends to raise the front end during a jump, so get in the habit of pulling in the lever to keep the rear fender in one piece. :wink:
I hear alot about that flywheel-weight, but it seems like it is restricting the motor. If that was good for it, wouldn't it run faster as you clogged up the air filter, ran it too rich, or dented up the pipe? The one I took off my k5 was real heavy for its size and would surely add to the inertia of the crank. Tell you why I ran it. When I bought the bike, it was wore-out. The crank had slop in it and therefore had vibration. Vibration to the point, I was losing a bolt or two per tank of gas! Eventually, it caused the flywheel to sheer the woodruff key which damaged the end of the crank. The weight mounts to the inside and outside of flywheel which held it all together, plus helped balance out some of the vibration. Now, I'm all fixed up, keeping my bolts, running well and racing with the old sandbaggers. (Amateurs formerly pros) :-D
-
Hi as far as using a flywheel weight I do not think that it resticts horse power. As far as I know it is supposed to add a lot of bottom end torqe. I know it is going to change the power and respone at high revs but that would not really bother me. If I was ridding it in the dunes I would be looking for a lighter flywheel but that is completely different. I would definately not compare a fly wheel weight to cloging up the air filter. I guess everybody has their own opinion. Getting rid of all the vibration sounds great to me.
Chris
-
I know alot of k5 guys seem to like them, so I may be wrong. I thought it slowed the rev down, to make it easier roll-on power, instead of powering thru powerband of the gear. It has its pros too I'll give it that. Also, vibrations were worn bearrings. Much smoother, crisper bike today :-D
-
Hi I know what you are saying. I think that the flywheel weight could make the bike seem slower. It would also rev less. That is good that you got your bike fixed.
I think I have made up my mind about what to do with my bike. After ridding it the other day I can definately see that the bike is a lot harder to ride in the tight woods than anything I have ever ridden. I could ride any of my other bikes or quads all day and me tired but this things just kills me. Don't get me wrong. I had a very good time ridding it all day yesterday. That was probably the longest ride I have taken it out on. I almost ran it out of gas. I think I will keep it and save some money for a kdx200 or something like it. I would only sell it or trade it for a good offer. That is where I stand for now. Thanks for all of the comments and information.
Chris
-
At the risk of sounding like a total hick why don't you stuff the KX500 motor in a trike frame setup for the woods.
By the looks of the vids you posted you have wide enough trails for a trike/quad and it would be a whole lot easier to ride for long periods vs the big KX.
You could even keep it with team green since Kawi made the Tecate back in 84-87.
I'd get an 86/87 Tecate trike and put the motor in. It practically bolts in with little work. The swingarm bolt lines up as does the bottom motor mount. The top and front motor mount would need to be fabricated (just the removeable mounts I mean) but thats easy.
They are a race chassis straight from the factory with 9 inches of travel front and rear. They originally come with a 42hp 250 powervalved KX motor so they are very capable of handling the big KX5 motor and has been done numerous times before.
Heres a pair, one stock and one setup for MX racing from back in 86/87. Very sweet looking machines IMO and definately fun.
-
Here is a review from 87;
http://www.3wheeler.org/dirtwheels/3-87~tecateindex.html
I also have to correct myself, 9.8 inches of travel front and rear.
-
Hi sounds like a fun project. I really do not have the heart to tare this bike apart. This bike is a very good shape for a 1986. The other thing is where am I going to find a tecate chasis to use? I never see that kind of stuff. If I found a chasis with an engine in it I would probably just work with the 250 set up. If I found a bare chasis and I could get my hands on another 500 engine I would get to work. I saw a tecate 500 on ebay alittle while ago. There is a tecate 4 with a kx500 engine on ebay right now. That is another vehicle I never see. They are just not popular. By the way I love three wheelers. I had a 1985 honda 250sx that I had to sell unfortunately. I used to ride that thing almost everyday on those trails you saw in the video. To tell you the truth a bike is way easier to ride on rough trails if you are going fast. I take my quads out when I just want to cruise around. Also I am a member of the threewheelerworldforum. I wonder where that 1987 review cam from because they never had a 1987 three wheeler in the usa. There are some 1987 an even 1988 trikes in the uk. You can check them out on threewheelerworld. So in conclusion if you want to give me a tecate chasis I will try to get everything together for the project. :-D
Chris
-
What area are you in? If you cannot find a rebuildable Tecate why not look for a nice 83/84 Honda 250R. They make great woods machines as opposed to the high strung Tecates. Even better would be a liquid Honda Atc 250R with the counterbalanced motor.
Glad to hear your a trike guy, not many people actually appreciate them for the cool/potent machines they can be.
:-D
I know of two or three 86 Tecates that are for sale or sold for cheap in the past month. I'll look into them.
-
Hi I wish I could say the same for finding good deals on tecates in my area. I am in central new jersey. I can not find any three wheelers for cheap unless they are complete crap. I had are hard time getting 800 for my 1985 honda 250sx when I sold it a couple months ago. I sucks because I would have to spend over a grand to get anything with front and rear suspension yet I got my blaster for 500. It does not make much sense to me but I just take them as they come. I would love to have a 200x, 250r, or 350x. As for my kx500 it is getting to be more of a bike that is fun to ride for a short while but it gets tiring very fast. I can ride anything else and not be completely exhausted when compared to this bike. I love the bike to death and I would hate to part with it but once I start ridding something else and it just ends up sitting around it will have to go. One day it will happen.
Chris