KX Riders
General => In General... => Topic started by: gwcrim on January 07, 2007, 09:04:17 AM
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For those of you who don't frequent DRN.
http://dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?p=1139881#post1139881&conly=
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I saw that on another site, pretty sick. Guy works for service honda.
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Thanks!
i'm glad you guys liked it, definantly a fun project!!
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AJ--Have you ridden it yet?
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That bike looks so cool I had to snag 2 pictures of it so we can drool before going to the link.
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and i have a new wallpaper :wink:
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Didn't know AJ was a lurker here. Welcome, man of big two strokes!
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Thanks!
I will try to get some decent resolution photos up soon.
Havnt been able to test it seriusoly yet,, but when i do i'll post some feedback from myself,,
(unfortuantly that will likely be biased? lol )
and from other variuos riders.
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I like it! I love the way you used a CR500 pipe. But looks tough. I'd be curious with a Dyno/AF to see how the CR500 pipe effects the motor.
Let us know your progress, I always loved the CR500AF in black you guys did for Singletracker500.
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about the pipe:
Its a test bike, and runs good now,,
but before i sell them as a model it will have a pipe made specifically for it by PC and FMF..
and at that time i'll also likely do a newer style digital ignition/CDI ,
(like i did for the CR500AFX ,(and stock CR500's)
that follows the OEM stock CDI mapping but runs a bit cleaner and crisper, and starts easier. and adds the ability to have 120 watts of lights)
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So this is going to be something you'll be building and selling like the cr500af?
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about the pipe:
Its a test bike, and runs good now,,
but before i sell them as a model it will have a pipe made specifically for it by PC and FMF..
and at that time i'll also likely do a newer style digital ignition/CDI ,
(like i did for the CR500AFX ,(and stock CR500's)
that follows the OEM stock CDI mapping but runs a bit cleaner and crisper, and starts easier. and adds the ability to have 120 watts of lights)
Any thoughts when this might go into production and will it be in the same price range for the cr500af? I'll be keeping my eye on this. I want one.
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Now if only there was a way to add an electric leg. :-(
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Now if only there was a way to add an electric leg. :-(
lower the compression, flywheel weight, jetting on par. Should start like your 250.
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My 500 starts about as well as I could hope for. Maybe I shouldn't have bored her out to 520. It just takes my whole body to move the kicker. With the 250, I can kick from a seated position.
Yeah, I'm a whimp.
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Yes my plan is to make it poroduction just like the CR500Af AF'x and juior bikes..
i would like to release it as a model ASAP.
unfortunantly it will be a little while.
i'm optimistically hoping for this May,
but reality may be the fall.
Now if only there was a way to add an electric leg
something ive been working on,, so stay tuned.. ;)
in the meantime here is a product thats quick.. effiecient
and works wonders if you want as very easy kick.. and ease of starting on a 500..
http://www.accu-products.com/
a better link- - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Compression-release-CR500R-KX500-KTM-LT500-QUADZILLA_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ10066QQihZ012QQitemZ220069376083QQrdZ1
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has any watched their buddy (the 250 or 125 ridder) try to start thier k5? it is the funniest thing ever!!. the best is when she kicks back and throws them over the bars :lol: :lol:
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Hey mate when do you think pc or fmf might be making a pipe for the KX500AF by? I am planning to tackle this project sometime myself and a factory pipe sounds much better than the bodged cr500 pipe I am capable of making :-D
Cheers Brad
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LOL!
Brad, you can always pay and have them make you a pipe right?
or i should pay them to develope it,,
then order the "minimum* (generally 100 )
amount of pipes it takes to make a first production "run"
then let them sell it resale to anyone buildring thier own bike..?
hmm
seems a bad deal to me..????????????
I'm just razzing you.,,
and may sell the pipes someday..when they are done.
but i dont think guys doing this ever fully realize the costs involved, then expect me to bear those R&D costs,
so they can do thier own thing..
*shrugs*
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Has anyone ever done a back to back test of a CR 500 pipe and a cut and rewelded KX 500 pipe? :? I reworked a Pro Circuit KX 500 pipe for my 97 KX 250 framed 500. I tried to keep the tuned section as untouched as possible. If I wasn't going to school right now I would buy a couple of different pipes and try them out. Also has anyone tried one of Dyno Port's pipes? :?
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AJ, once these are production post a price. I will be taking delivery of one them :D
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Paul-
I think you'll really like it..
anyway here is a better photo...
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q203/aj277/rightsidesmallj.jpg)
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I wish I had money!
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That is Awesome! I have Grown Firm!! The only thing it needs is electric start,and delivered to my garage. Do you know how they will be priced yet? I am thinking heavily about the new 450r offroad four stroke.I am not sure it would be exciting enough, as I am used to my cr500r, and my kx500. Love the power and the smell!
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the pricing on trhe KX500AF will likely be about the same as my CR500AF/AF's currently >>
www.servicehonda.com
on the starting,, check out the compression release i posted earlier in this thread,,
it's a small compression release on the cylinder cabled to a small hot start lever.. nice and clean.
makes it very easy to kick and start a 500..
its no E-button,but its tennis shoes ease of starting if thats what you are looking for.
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Wow! My dream bike! Excuse me for a minute while I kneel down and bow to you a whole bunch of times, AJ!
OK, I am done now.
How will we know when you are ready to sell the KX500AF? I would LOVE to get one.
--Ben
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Ben - LOL
thanks..!!!!!!!!!!
When its released for sale as a new model ,
it will certainly be on our website..
and generally you will also see press releases in the magazines.
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AJ, in the process of the compression release, are you guys sleeving the cylinders (or planning to) I remember such a thing but required a sleeve.
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eh - i only have them put on if a customer wants thst option..
no sleeve of the actual cylinder is required at all ?
and nothing is changed in the regoin other tthan a small hole for
the air passge to the compression release pop it style valve and seal..
but a small sleeve thru the water jacket from the side is required..to allow that air pathway ?
its pretty basic, the old maico style ,,
and is very clean..
i weigh 150 pounds and dont have them on my bikes,,
but wouldnt be at all opposed to it,,
its just ive benn startring 500's for twenty years..lol
they do work well and if you want ease of kicking its the hot
ticket.. for about $175 you can kick it in your sneakers..
now that i'm thinking about it,, i should put one on my bike..LOL
*shrugs*
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Where are you sourcing the motors from? Are they simply assembled parts as you've done recently with the cr?
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yes ,,
thats how they wil be sourced most likely..
I've been working with Kaw for awhile on this actuially, and lurking around here a year or so..;)
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AJ, the work you do on the 500AFs is first class. I think what impresses me and most people is the fact that it doesn't look monster garage built. They look like they came right off the Honda (and soon Kawi) assembly line. VERY impressive! Thanks again AJ for sharing your newest creation. :wink:
Now is there any way to coerce some pro riders onto one of these bikes? It would be cool if the AMA opened up Motocross class to Open and have someone ride a 500 again. :roll:
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Any attempts at using the cr kickstarter?I love the shape of that one.
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Thanks--
abnd i've tried a few kickstarters..
the old KX 500 engine uses a very fine spline kickstarter output shaft--
most every manufactuer (including Kaw) switched to a much larger spline-
on any current decade ,making it a challenge to find a simple bolt on replacement.
it is a prototype--
and i'm still working on it though ,
and will keep looking into different ones ,,
or rebroching a more modern kickstater "knuckle" to fit the old *fine* spline..
or it's possible to make a new kickstart shaft and heat treat it properly.. with a corrected spline for a new style kick arm knuckle.
( i did exactly this for the ATV that i make SH TRX250R )
anyway it depends on what works out, and what is truly needed,
verses the added costs.. :wink:
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Thanks--
abnd i've tried a few kickstarters..
the old Kai 500 engine usies a very fine spline kickstarter out put shaft--
mmost every manufactuer (including Kaw) ewen tto a much larger spline on any current decade bike..
unforunatly..
it is a prototype--
and i'm still working on it though and will keep looking into different ones ,, or rebrochin ga more modern kinstater "knuckle" to fit theold spline..
or even its possible to make a new kickstart shaft and heat treat it properly.. with a corrected spline for a new style kikarm knuckle00
( i did exactly this for the ATV that i make SH TRX250R )
anyway it depends on what works oyt, and what is truly needed verses the added costs.. :wink:
Are you typing while drinking :D
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LOL! :-D
no! i wasn't drinking!
but wow, one finger typing ,in a hurry , leaves one big mess of typos! :-o
kind of looks like i used my elbow instead.
sorry :|
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LOL! :-D
no! i wasn't drinking!
but wow, one finger typing ,in a hurry , leaves one big mess of typos! :-o
kind of looks like i used my elbow instead.
sorry :|
I thought maybe you were typing with your feet while you were working on the bike.
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No big deal AJ. My typing sucks and I sit at computers all day.. Thank God for grammer and spell check. Again, can't wait for the end product.. I might just have to grab me one of these, when released. Depeneding on the wife tho, she will more than likely make me dump a bike first. :'(
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at least they still coment on it, everyone just expects me not to make any sence :wink:
hey paul we should get a spel cecker
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and at that time i'll also likely do a newer style digital ignition/CDI ,
(like i did for the CR500AFX ,(and stock CR500's)
that follows the OEM stock CDI mapping but runs a bit cleaner and crisper, and starts easier. and adds the ability to have 120 watts of lights)
Methinks there will be a market for that item amongst those of us who have a standard frame also :-)
The lighting coil aspect especially.
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demo-
thanks for the feedback and thats what i was thinking..
as like you brought up ,
that CR 500AFX system has done well with the CR500 steelie frame riders as well .
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demo-
thanks for the feedback and thats what i was thinking..
as like you brought up ,
that CR 500AFX system has done well with the CR500 steelie frame riders as well .
As I don't know anything about it could you tell me if it provides an AC current or a three phase (usually three yellow output wires) output like most roadbikes have?
AC is nice but if like me you want lights that don't go dim when the revs drop you need to change it to half wave rectified current before it goes to a battery but three phase (whilst still needing to go through a rectifier) is better suited to battery use as it provides less trough in the waveform and higher RMS voltage if I remember it right.
Also if you say that the ignition is digital does that mean that its also programmable?
is it to be a lighter or heavier flywheel or just the same?
Sorry if some of these questions sound a bit daft but I don't know anything about the product you alreadyhave for the CR.
regards Scott.
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I really want to ride my bike to work once a week. This lighting system and an Oregon plate might be the answer.
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The current CR setup
is two yellows out ,on the lighting coil output side, AC.
its a *true 130 watts* (not split) system.
it is availible with either a DC regulator,(if you want it with a battery application) or AC regulator.
it works well in both applications
It runs with a DC reg and battery , on our CR500AFX..
(since the bike already has the batt,and batt box)
however I have run it AC, on a standard CR500AF, CR500R,
and it never dims with your somewhat typical 55wat headlight bulb even at idle, it is full bright..
of course with a higher wattage bulb that might change ...
havnt tested that yet.
but as mentioned you could always run the DC regulator ,
and a small batt if wanted , or needed?
on the CDI mapping ,
it is not progamable.. but i was thinking of having
it be swicthable, and offer two curves
the flywheel is 4 oz heavier
The KX system isnt designed yet, but would mimic the CR setup.
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AJ would you be able to just sell the frame (modifided to except the 500 motor), plastic,shock, triple clamps, and forks?
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The current CR setup
is two yellows out ,on the lighting coil output side, AC.
its a *true 130 watts* (not split) system.
it is availible with either a DC regulator,(if you want it with a battery application) or AC regulator.
it works well in both applications
It runs with a DC reg and battery , on our CR500AFX..
(since the bike already has the batt,and batt box)
however I have run it AC, on a standard CR500AF, CR500R,
and it never dims with your somewhat typical 55wat headlight bulb even at idle, it is full bright..
of course with a higher wattage bulb that might change ...
havnt tested that yet.
but as mentioned you could always run the DC regulator ,
and a small batt if wanted , or needed?
on the CDI mapping ,
it is not progamable.. but i was thinking of having
it be swicthable, and offer two curves
the flywheel is 4 oz heavier
The KX system isnt designed yet, but would mimic the CR setup.
Hmmmm, as mine gets used as a roadbike I am finding this veeeery interesting.
The current lightling coil I have couldn't get a glow worm horny as its so crap.
How much is the CR setup selling for?
I assume that the KX setup would be much the same kind of money?
One more point, will all of this fit under the standard KX ignition (or even under the slightly smaller but much stronger Boyeson) cover or do we need a different (with a larger internal space) one like the E-line setup uses?
I would be using a DC regulator (like I already have fitted) cos I have a battery fitted as mine has a horn, indicators and lights.
If your wondering where I live that lets me get away with this, its in the UK and although we are not allowed many fun things, the government hasn't cottoned onto big two squeek motocrossers on the road yet so hasn't banned em yet.
Regards Scott.
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AJ would you be able to just sell the frame (modifided to except the 500 motor), plastic,shock, triple clamps, and forks?
Hmmmmmmmmm, an AF KX 500 kit. Cool, very cool idea! :-D :-D :-D
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kits-
i do not currentkly make the CR 500AF's that way..
(but we will build the CR/AF bike *here* with your CR500 engine ,
and you then get that discount)
but a kit might be something we offer in the future or on the
KX / AF.. not sure yet.
on the lighting stuff..
check details here for the CR stuff?
www.servicehonda.com
The CR set up sells for
499 with AC regulator
566 with DC regulator.
thats includes a stator/ rotor/ regulator /CDI..
far less expensive than the OEM stock stuff,
and has the added benefit of 130 watts of lighting output..
it fits under the CR ignition cover just like OEM..
we (and electrosport) went out of our way to ensure it was a direct replacement ssystem.
we would do the same on the KX stuff,
if i go down that route,.,
(and i plan to, with a KX500AFX bein ghthe next logical step
(i hope) =)
thanks for all the feedback guys, i appreciate it!
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AJ, thanks for taking time to answere questions we have. I know you are busy, but it means alot to us and says alot about Service Honda.
Any thoughts about a digital PVL ignition as a custom option for us duners and sand/ice/drag racers?
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as mentioned ,
i as thinking of offering a couple curves(switchable)
(and tgis would be at basically the same price.. under OEMS stuff)
a truly rider programable CDI is something we have thought about,
but obviuosly its retail would be more.
not sure if it will be offered , but at some point its difinantely a possibilty.
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a truly rider programable CDI is something we have thought about,
but obviuosly its retail would be more.
not sure if it will be offered , but at some point its difinantely a possibilty.
AJ, the PVL isn't a programmable ignition, it is a MUCH smaller flywheel that allows the bikes to explode (performance wise) in an instant - as if the 500's weren't violent enough already :lol:
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AJ, thanks for taking time to answere questions we have. I know you are busy, but it means alot to us and says alot about Service Honda. gowen
Here, here.. I second that! Has been some good reading....
Sly
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...you guys did for Singletracker500.
John is an ass, no funning, no kidding and no love lost.
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Paul- thanks foir clearing PVL up.
i never heard of PVL , i had heard of guys with very light flywheels..
i add weight to the flywheels now to get them to at least original OEM..
so its poosible to make a lighter one, in the future ,
that still has the lighting output..
how light are the PVL's compared to stock
(is there % ratio, or a general figure?)
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Paul- thanks foir clearing PVL up.
i never heard of PVL , i had heard of guys with very light flywheels..
i add weight to the flywheels now to get them to at least original OEM..
so its poosible to make a lighter one, in the future ,
that still has the lighting output..
how light are the PVL's compared to stock
(is there % ratio, or a general figure?)
AJ, I'd guess 80% lighter?? Maybe more? Paul correct me if I'm wrong but it is nothing as heavy as stock.
PS: The PVL is analog, that is why I was hoping a digital one would be released.. When I buy another KX500 (AF?) I will put on another PVL system if it doesn't come with it. I can't imagine having a KX without it.
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Oh no, nowhere near as heavy as stock. It sucks in the tight rocky singletrack of Arizona but, it's a must for a duner :D
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Paul- thanks foir clearing PVL up.
i never heard of PVL , i had heard of guys with very light flywheels..
i add weight to the flywheels now to get them to at least original OEM..
so its poosible to make a lighter one, in the future ,
that still has the lighting output..
how light are the PVL's compared to stock
(is there % ratio, or a general figure?)
AJ, I'd guess 80% lighter?? Maybe more? Paul correct me if I'm wrong but it is nothing as heavy as stock.
PS: The PVL is analog, that is why I was hoping a digital one would be released.. When I buy another KX500 (AF?) I will put on another PVL system if it doesn't come with it. I can't imagine having a KX without it.
I assume that because the PVL ignition rotor has its weight closer to the centre as opposed to the outside like a normal flywheel it will seem even lighter.
As rotating objects that have their weight around the periphery have more anglar momentum at the same RPM than the same weight object with its weight closer to the centre an internal flywheel of the same weight as a normal external one should be more revvy.
Bit like a gymnast spinning very quickly then throwing their arms out and slowing down.
If you get my drift :-)
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Very true, but physically holding the stock rotor vs. that flywheel was incredible (weight difference).
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yes ,,
thats how they wil be sourced most likely..
I've been working with Kaw for awhile on this actuially, and lurking around here a year or so..;)
Does Kaw have any warehouse stock of complete engines?? Will they manufacture complete engines for you?? Are you going to buy complete kx450f's and just remove the engines or is Kaw providing the roller chassis?? Buying used engines and doing complete rebuilds seems to be alot of time and effort. Thanks for your time on answering our questions.
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the most likely scenerio is :
much like the cr 500af /afx bikes--
i would be buying complete kx450f bikes,
then building the kx500 engines for them from the new parts bin.
we've been testing this last 2 weeks,and really happy with the handling,susp etc.
it will have a proper pipe made up quickly and from there i shold be able to get it released fairly fast!
its a blast to ride, and i'm really stoked with how its coming along, i think you guys will really like the final product.
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i think you guys will really like the final product.
AJ, you're preachin' to the choir, man!!!