KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: kx5tsi on September 10, 2006, 02:34:18 PM
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Ive got a problem with my 87 kx5
while out riding it seemed as though I missed 3rd gear. Well, i kept riding and kept missing it, now I just got new msr boots and they are a little tall and I was having some trouble fitting under the shift lever. anyways I thought it was my boots and paid no attention to it. All of a sudden I lost all gears, heard some weird noises and lost the feel to my shift lever. I was able to get it into first and get back to the truck, but had no other gears.
I got home and went to mess with it, wanted to start it up to see if I could maybe get somthing to work, and my kick starter is not working, it wont kick down. Now I assume my gearbox locked up for some reason, so I drained my oil and no metal chunks or anything, only a few tiny specks here and there which I assume could be clutch particles? Anyways hopefully somone has some advice for me. I just bought this bike about a month ago and its a bummer for it to break already.
Any help is appreciated, thanks,
kyle
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Take the clutch side cover off. Check the assembly in there. Maybe snap a pic? Or see what came apart. It doesn't sound quite like a tranny problem, but more a shifting assembly? Get it apart and let me know what you see.
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Ive got a problem with my 87 kx5
while out riding it seemed as though I missed 3rd gear. Well, i kept riding and kept missing it, now I just got new msr boots and they are a little tall and I was having some trouble fitting under the shift lever. anyways I thought it was my boots and paid no attention to it. All of a sudden I lost all gears, heard some weird noises and lost the feel to my shift lever. I was able to get it into first and get back to the truck, but had no other gears.
I got home and went to mess with it, wanted to start it up to see if I could maybe get somthing to work, and my kick starter is not working, it wont kick down. Now I assume my gearbox locked up for some reason, so I drained my oil and no metal chunks or anything, only a few tiny specks here and there which I assume could be clutch particles? Anyways hopefully somone has some advice for me. I just bought this bike about a month ago and its a bummer for it to break already.
Any help is appreciated, thanks,
kyle
So basically your engine is "locked up" when you try to kick your bike over? There is a possibility you are stuck "between gears" from a broken shift shaft and or shift shaft spring. Like Gowen suggested, pull the clutch cover off and inspect the shifter mechanism. You can see it once you remove the clutch cover. If all looks good, sorry dude, but then your tranny has to come apart.
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Looks like I lucked out on this one, as soon as the clutch cover came off, a 12mm bolt fell out. I guess somehow the bolt let loose and the star shaped thing attached to the end of the shift drum just fell off and lodged itself in there. It looks to still be in operational shape, with only one nick on the side that doesn't affect the gears themselves. Im going to put it back on, with a fair amount of loctite and reassemble, hopefully its my only problem.
While I have it apart I pulled the clutch off to inspect the plates and they look almost new. My question is, how much torque need I apply to the bolts that hold the plate on and hold the disks in? Don't want to let one of those badboys fly around in there.
thanks,
kyle
Thanks,
kyle
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Another question, it looks like the whole clutch housing needs to come off to be able to bolt this thing back up to the shift drum, and my problem is that the inside part is free spinning, as well as the outside part. What gives?
Whats the best way to get this thing off so I can see what im doin in there?
also if anyone knows the torque specs for the gear on the shift drum and for the giant nut holding the clutch case on i'd really appreciate it, hate to put it all back together and cause major damage because of a stupid bolt coming loose.
thanks,
kyle
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Kyle,
They make holders similar to vise grips but with a longer jaw wtih L bends on the end to fit into the splines on the inner clutch hub. You might be able to make a tool from a welding clamp type vise grip. Also sometime if you can hold the inner hub firmly somehow with a rag or strap wrench, an impact wrench will take the nut off easily. Glad to hear that there is no real damage. I don't know the proper torque for the 6mm clutch hold down bolts but they are hardened fine thread so I typiclly use 8ftlbs with blue loctite. Cam.
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thanks cam,
I broke my inner clutch hub trying to take it off, I was trying to use a breaker bar wedged between the bolt prongs and the footpeg......not a good idea.....I snapped one off. Anyways I ordered a new one.....$75.00 mistake. Also ordered the special tool from the dealer for 10 bucks. Hopefully tuesday when it comes in I can get her back up and running.
kyle
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I personally dont like to use anything in between the casted posts of the clutch basket. I stick a 2X3 board in between the rear spokes, rest it on top of the swingarm, put the trans in gear, and use an impact gun. Works awesome, with little stress on the basket.
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yea, but my gear selector nob fell off....i would've tried somthing more to that tune if I could get it into gear. Oh well the clutch hub comes in on tuesday, im just gonna make sure I LOCTITE EVERYTHING! my bikes been down for two weeks cuz of this stupid bolt falling out.....
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well got it all put back together and now a new problem, this was happeneing right before the bolt fell off letting the gear selector go.
Im assuming my clutch is going bad, I thought it looked good, but I really don;t know what im doin with bikes, im going to go look at new clutches on monday to see how much material is on a new disc compared to mine.
I have a problem where 1st and second gear grabs good until high in the rpm range when it lets loose. 3rd gear really wont grab at all, neigther will 4th or 5th. It just free revs and bucks a little bit, like its slipping but trying to grab. Anyone got any ideas? Thanks,
kyle
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Make sure your clutch cable is in good working order and that you have a a bit of play when the clutch is not engaged. If the cable is not OK or properly adjusted, it could cause the clutch to be permanently engaged. This would be noticable under the conditions you described.
The effect is that the clutch does not 'return' properly after it has been engaged, try an additional spring on the clutch lever (on the engine side) if noting else works.
Your choise of engine oil could also be causing problems. Oils with silicone and engine saving low friction stuff could have this effect.
//John
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well got it all put back together and now a new problem, this was happeneing right before the bolt fell off letting the gear selector go.
Im assuming my clutch is going bad, I thought it looked good, but I really don;t know what im doin with bikes, im going to go look at new clutches on monday to see how much material is on a new disc compared to mine.
I have a problem where 1st and second gear grabs good until high in the rpm range when it lets loose. 3rd gear really wont grab at all, neigther will 4th or 5th. It just free revs and bucks a little bit, like its slipping but trying to grab. Anyone got any ideas? Thanks,
kyle
Make sure you also replace the clutch springs!! Clutch springs on a 20 year old bike frequently become "laxed" and loose much of their "free height".
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hmm. Well I have a few things to try now thanks to you guys, what is the best oil to run in these bikes? Im running 80w 90w gear oil.
thanks for the help,
kyle
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Hi,
Thought I should help out with some KX500 numbers (in mm if the unit is missing). The service limits are in paranthesis;
Friction plate thickness 2.92-3.08 (2.8)
Clutch spring free lenght 32.6 (31.1)
Friction plate / clutch housing clearence [space between the teeths and the housing] 0.35-0.60 (0.9)
Chutch hub nut torque 98Nm (10kg-m, 72ft-lb)
Clutch spring bolts 9.3Nm (0.95kg-m, 82in-lb)
Also check the clutch housing for cracks. Check the clutch plates for warp and finally check the clutch hub for wear.
//John
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Thanks,
where would I go about getting parts for this bike? I tried the dealer but it seems kawasaki has discontinued the clutch hub at least, I would assume other parts are discontinued as well.
kyle
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My 87 500 is running a Pro-X inner hub for an 89-04 model bike, that would lead me to believe that the outter hub would be the same. What parts are you looking for??
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Hmm, thats funny, maybe I dont have an 87.
the pro-x hub I ordered for my bike was for the 89's-04's and it would not fit. It was the exact same hub, only it had many small splines where it slides over the shaft. My shaft has 6 big splines on it. I reassembled with only 4 bolts, since one of my posts is broken off. I know this can't be good, but possibly I could make it work with stiffer springs. I can't find a hub anywhere.
After some tinkering with the clutch cable, I have got it to grab good in all gears, except 3rd. It shifts into third. but its just free revs. I dont think that my clutch is slipping otherwise why would it grab good in 4th? Also, not sure if it grabs in 5th, or the top of any gear. The motor was not even warmed and the plug wasn't cleared yet, it was bogging on 3/4 throttle and up. I was testing on my street and this allowed one blast down and back since I have some ornary neighbors that call the cops.
I'll get it out this week to go ride it for a while and see what happens. This is a pretty bad diagnosis since it wasn't even producing full power on my test.
any help is appreciated,
kyle
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Post a picture of your bike. You could have an 86 500 or older, or the engine has been swapped out.
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When you say "After some tinkering with the clutch cable, I have got it to grab good in all gears, except 3rd. It shifts into third. but its just free revs." Do you mean free rews as in no traction at all or some traction?
//John
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I dont think its grabbing in 3rd at all., it revs like Im in neutral. Im going to try and put it up on a stand and run it through the gears to see if im getting any tire spin in 3rd.
If my clutch was going wouldn't it slip in all gears? Or is there a certain gear that it will start slipping in first? Maybe my shift fork or cogs are messed up?
I still need to get it out to an open area and get her warmed up to get a more accurate diagnosis of my problem, im not sure if the clutch is holding at the top of any gear yet since I couldn't really get on it in my neighborhood.
thanks
kyle
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Kyle,
Is there any way you can get a picture of your shift assembly under the clutch basket? I have a feeling it is not right.
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That spring on that shaft gave me about an hour of sh*t when I rebuilt my engine, It's not marked but I had mine backwards(flipped over) and it would pop off and I was unable to shift any gear. Need a photo of your bike to help figure the year.
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Maybe this problem.....
Worn dogs for third gear or/and bend shiftfork :cry:
You can machine to negative angled dogs and get more
"grabbing force",this is common problem for KX500 when you miss
gears when upshifting under load.The dogs get rounded at edge.
It?s not so expensive to do this mods than buy new gearwheel. :wink:
The stock shiftforks are very thin and easy to bend :-(
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Hi kx5tsi your kx gearbox problem will be inside i would look at the selector drum for damage and see if the forks are bent then look at the dogs on the gears if they are rounded over they worn out have seen problems in that area before as my bussiness is rebuilding gearboxes for cars trucks and bikes and dont ues 80/90 gear oil it is to heavy you clutch wont disengage properly use around 10w40 2 stroke gear oil your clutch will like that more hope this can help you best of luck Simon
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thanks for all the help guys,
yes I can get a picture, but probably not for a week or so when I have time to tear her down. If all goes well this weekend I may have some spare time to tear into her. Im a college student, and also working so finding the time is sort of hard.
But yea as soon as I can I will get some pics of the shift assembly, clutch, etc. Hopefully one of you guys can point somthing out, that may be wrong with the shift assembly otherwise the box will come apart. I have a bad feeling that It is shifting into gear fine and my box is messed up.
How hard is it to do the gear mod? Im pretty good with a cutoff wheel and die grinder, the hours of manifold and cylinder head porting might come in handy.
Thanks,
kyle
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KX5tsi,
Grinding the dogs isn't very hard. If you have ported heads then no probs. The only tricky thing is to match them, ie. grind the same amount of each. There is usually 3 or 4 dogs on each gear so after you grind one whole gear you need to slip it on the shaft with its unground mating gear and use a feeler guage to check dog contact clearance. Then use a file to bring down the highest one so they all contact about the same (no clearance). I used to race Husquvarnas in the old days. Got really good at fixing gears. As for the shift forks, look at the wear patterns on each side. A bent one will have obviously uneven wear. Hope this helps. Cam.
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Thanks, hopefully I can repair it myself.
My bikes head is not ported to my knowledge, the only experience I have in porting is car cylinder heads, exhaust manifolds, intake manifolds etc.
Only mods to the bike that I am aware of are the pro circuit pipe and answer silencer, haven't pulled the motor apart yet so Im not really sure if thats the extent of it.
but thanks for the help, looks like I will have some time this weekend to rip it apart. I guess I'll find out whats really wrong.
kyle