KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: 2001KX5 on January 29, 2006, 10:11:17 AM
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hi guys.
just picked up an 01k5 and haven't had a chance to tear it down yet, but there are supposed to cracks in the exhaust ports. Reading one of the top end tech posts on here I take it that this is some what common.
In any event, should I send the cylinder away and get the cracks welded and the cylinder replated, or should I just say shag it and get a sleeve installed?
I know the plating is the way to go for heat transfer and its supposed to last longer than a sleeve. But I'm afraid if this cracking happened once then perhaps it will happen again? At least with a sleeve it will not crack and will also serve to strengthen the cylinder. I only ride recreationally and will never likely push this bike to its limits.
My last KX250 was sleeved and I diden't have a hitch with it.
What do you guys think?
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Plating is the go. The cracks can be attended to at the same time. Then its right for the next 10 years. Also its probably cheaper.
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Does any one know how extensive cracking has to be before they can't repair it?
Can cracking in these areas be repaired and the cylinder replated with out the cracking coming back?
(http://www.hallbergs.net/kx500/images/picture3.jpg)
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Yes,
That's my cylinder in that picture and there were cracks everywhere. I had it welded and replated. A professional shop can repair almost anything you throw at them. The shop I use have fixed prices for this.
The total cost is something in the regions of ?100 (~$150) depending on the shop. ?20 for welding, ?80 for plating. You will spend the same money again on a new piston, add some extra for gaskets and stuff and you are looking at ~ ?300 (~$450) for a complete rebuild.
The cylinder (design) tends to crack quite easily (where marked above). Fortunately, the repairs are not that expensive.
If you do not put a lot of stress on the machine, this repair should last longer than the oil reserves of the world...
I don?t know how much a sleeve would cost you, but consider that plating is far superior technology.
//John
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Ok here are some pics of the cracking:
(http://www.newfoundlandmotorsports.com/hybrid/Misc%20pics/KX500project/crack1.jpg)
(http://www.newfoundlandmotorsports.com/hybrid/Misc%20pics/KX500project/crack2.jpg)
(http://www.newfoundlandmotorsports.com/hybrid/Misc%20pics/KX500project/longcrack1.jpg)
(http://www.newfoundlandmotorsports.com/hybrid/Misc%20pics/KX500project/longcrack2.jpg)
This is no crack
(http://www.newfoundlandmotorsports.com/hybrid/Misc%20pics/KX500project/nocrack.jpg)
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those are pretty bad cracks extending way into exhaust ports under powervalve flap.this area gets extremely hot and crack may have spread elsewhere.if it was me,i would look for another cylinder.this motor took a terrible shock.check powervalve drums also.
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How much does a new cylinder cost ? Are they available ?
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The power valve drums are in great shape and over all so is the cylinder. Its just those horizontal cracks. Most cylinder cracking is supposed to be repariable. I'm going to send it to eric gorr, but have to confirm with him if these cracks can be welded up with some longenvity. If any one has experience with a welded cracked cylinder please school me.
Oh yeah a cylinder would cost $800 canadian plus 15% tax. Then I still have to get gaskets and piston.
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2001KX5,
I would send those photos to eric gore first. He might be able to give you an idea on repairablility before you ship the cylinder down there. Otherwise a used cylinder might be a better deal. Nice bike though. Somehow it's had a huge shock to the top end. Suggest giving the rod a look too. Read the rod clearance specs carefully because they actually have a teeny bit of up & down play that you can feel which is normal (fooled me into starting a rebuild). Cam.
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Oh don't worry I'm tearing this bike completly apart and checking ever nut and bolt. I would not spend so much on a top end to just have to to replace it due to a shot bottom end.
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sometime these shops have spare cylinders on hand.they often buy cores to have a cylinder ready for quick turn around during race season.check Lukes racing,superior sleeve and lakeshore industries.
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Couple of more pics closer up:
(http://www.newfoundlandmotorsports.com/hybrid/Misc%20pics/KX500project/exhcrack1.jpg)
(http://www.newfoundlandmotorsports.com/hybrid/Misc%20pics/KX500project/exhcrack2.jpg)
I'm really hoping they can be repaired because I want a ported and overbored top end rather then just buying a new stock cylinder which I may still have to do.
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2001kx5,theres a cylinder on ebay i was watching to get for a big bore and some r&d port work i was going to do but you need it worse than i.its .080 over and i would have it plated to either that or back to .060(they can go back that far only i'm told).let me know if you are going to bid on this.
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can you send me the link pls. I really appreciate that man. as long as its not sleeved.
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ok.lets try this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item
this does have a sleeve to be bored out max.i run a sleeve out to .080 and runs like h---.but all ports are matched up right with sleeve and then was plated.most problems with sleeve is the installation and care in correct matching.
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I was just speaking with Eric Gorr on the phone and said it might beable to be repaired but he would have to see it and it depends if the area is accessible. He said if its not repairable then he can provide a new cylinder at his cost (~$350usd which is an absolute steal!) if I get the porting and top end kit from him. Total with the new cylinder and porting would be $640usd. So I'm just going to send it off and be done with it really.
If I buy a new cylinder here it will cost me:
Cylinder ~$750
Piston ~ $140
Gaskets ~ $50
Total $940 Canadian
Worse case with Eric is $640usd or $730 canadian plus about $70 shipping total or $ 800 canadian, but I get oh so much more than if I did it all locally here.
So its still better to send it to Eric even with the USD currency exchange.
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That's some serious cracks you've got there. Not the ordinary waer & tear...
Where do you live? If you live in Europe I can recommend Stan Stephens in the UK. I am not sure these cracks are reparable. I have no experience with cracks this size... Seems like something has gone terrible wrong..? You should try to find out the reason ( and post it here). I would like to know what could cause this - so that I can avoud it if nothing else.
Sorry I can't help you more. Maybe Doordie have some bright ideas or experience he can share? He's familiar with cracks :roll:
//John
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I'm on the east coast of Canada. I don't know what happened or caused those severe cracks as I bought the bike like this full knowing the situation. I assume it was leam jetting with poor quality oil and a lack of respect for the motor because by looking at the pistong and the bore, this just diden't occur out of the blue, but what I think was prolonged abuse.
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Eric hooked you up ! I would not attempt to have that cylinder repaired. I have seen minor stress cracks relieved but that is broken through and through. go w/ eric gorr.
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I know you probably don't know the entire history of the bike but, is there a chance that the bike got submerged while running. Hydraulics can do alot of damage and I've seen this happen to a friends bike. On his it actually stretched the threads in the block that hold the cylinder on. He happened to submerge his while moving forward and it sucked in water after the flame went out, serious lock up.
Just a thought.
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I'm not saying that is wasen't submerged, but there are no signs that I see. The piston is F***ed.
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5d,
I was having those same thoughts with the extensive cracking evident through the exhaust port sides. Ouch. cam.
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Part of its the engineer in me, (Associates degree in Architectural Engineering) and the other part is the Firefighter/EMT too many pump classes. Hydraulics are amazing things and those cracks seemed like they were right at the weak points in the cyl.
I would really check the botom end very close.
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Hey another engineer/firefighter. I've got my Masters in Electrical Engineering and am a member of the fire/confined space rescue team at the industrial plant I work in. Cool. Cam.
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Cam
I have about 3000 hours of training in firefighting and EMT. I was an EMT instructor for a few years before I got busy with the kids activities. I am also confined space, high angle rescue (repelling), trench, structural collapse,vehicle rescue and was the HAZMAT team leader for Heinz pet products division. I still like the deer in the headlight look you get from a probie in his/her first real fire. the stories I could tell!!!
This conversation should probably be in another area of the forum. Maybe we should have an area to let everyone know what each of us does to support our KX habits?
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I'm ME :)
Oh, I'd replace that cylinder, unless you can have someone CMM it, make sure it hasn't collapsed, or fishmouthed. I'm having mine replated, not any cracking like that, mines more like Doordies pics.
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Well Eric Gorr will evaluate the cracks and I'll go from there. But I'm leaning towards a new cylinder any way. As for the bottom end, I will be having that tore apart as well to check bearings and seals.
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Is this a common problem with the 5?
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Only if unmaintained or miss treated. :x
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Glad to know. I was entertaining the thought of selling my 250 for a 500.
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it would be nice if you could keep the 250 as well.but if you're for another thrill ride then by all means hop aboard and hold tight. :-D
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I rode a yz426f before I got the kx250. I miss the grunt of that big bore 4, but would like the big bore hit of a 2 smoke.
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well I was speaking with Eric today and he told me that its the worse seizure he has seen on a KX500 lol. To make a long story short he recommended an over sized sleeve and thats the route I'm going. My KX250 was sleeved and I diden't have a hitch, so I'll let ya know how it works out ;)
I'm still going to keep an eye out for another cylinder, but I'm still weary about buying one off ebay.