KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: kawdude on October 30, 2005, 01:33:39 PM
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All,
My KX has always been a beotch to start. I wondering about where the timing marks should be aligned. It seems that I've read the retarding or advancing the ignition may help this issue.
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Hey,
It could be a few things. I was having your same issue, but mine ended up being the jetting way off. The mark should be on the center of the three. You might have to experiment with them. Make sure your choke is working! You might consider changing to an EIX (iridium) because it can take a weak ignition and make it spark like a good ignition. Consider maybe changing your ignition system for a new one if found weak. I believe I have one laying around somewhere, since I don't use it anymore. Goodluck and let me know.
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Make sure your kickstart lever is set to get a full throw, any thing less won't do.
Dale
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I've been screwing with the jetting for some time now and the closed thru 1/4 throttle seems good. I doubt the ignition is the best. I had a EIX plug in it and lost spark the last time I was riding. I replaced with a plug out snowmobile that's been sitting since 85 and the spark had to be ten times brighter. Started and ran good. I'm not sure what to do to make this start easier. I'm about ready to sell it.
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Make sure your kickstart lever is set to get a full throw, any thing less won't do.
Dale
It is. Right now I'm having a problem with the kick start not grabbing in the Illinois cold. I'm sure it's wore but probably related to too thick a oil being used.
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The kick start gear is located to high to sit in oil. It's worn out. Pull the clutch cover and inspect the ratching gear and springs. My 87 500 likes to be leaned over on it's left side untill gas poors out the vent line and then I pull the choke kick it once push choke down kick it agian with a little throttle. Playing with my pilot jet and air screw helped alot on mine. Before I played with the jetting I would half to install a new plug ever time I wanted to ride it or just to get it to start. now with cold temps here in North Georgia she trying to act up alittle.
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Agreed the gear does not sit in oil but the oil lubes the shaft that ratch gear slides on. I don't doubt that either the shaft, gear or both are wore out but this problem was not around until I used Max gear lube. Heck that's about the only remaining original piece of the motor.
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Drain that Max Gear oil and use ATF type f. That 's all I used this past year with great results. Shifts butter smooth. I have never heard of Max Gear oil is it made for motorcycle trans??
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Yeah its the maxima brand. It's a good oil but probably too thick for cold weather.
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kawdude, dont give up and dont sell it. My kx500 starts super easy, 2nd or 3rd kick cold and first kick hot.
What that means, is that yours, can start easy too. An oil change shouldnt take more than ten minutes. LOL I havent had my kickstart gear out of the kx yet, but my red bike took less than ten minutes to pull the clutch cover off and the kicker gear and shaft slides right out. Perhaps others from this forum know more about the ignition weakness, my opinion is that the spark plug is probably the weakest link. Also the cheapest part to buy. I think Gowen is right about using the center mark. There is a jetting chart in the download section of this forum. Do you rock the bike in gear first before kicking? Because I am not real tall (5'8") I sometimes use a milk crate or picnic table to stand on while kicking. I have found that by raising "ME" up I can apply much more force and speed to the "kick" I always wear motocross boots when kicking and I put my body,mind and soul into every kick. Hope this helps! Dont give up!
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I don't rock it but will attempt to do so. It's more of a deal to take the side cover of the kx but not hard by any means. When I rebuilt the engine last year, which consisted of top and bottom end plus all the bearings, I set the timing at the middle mark but it may have slipped. I wouldn't doubt the ignition is weak. I bought this two years ago as an ebay "low hours" bike...BS! It was beat to crap internally and externally. I'm about your height also and use a stand which helps a bunch. Kaw did a crappo job designing the placement of the kickstarter and that lever has tore up numerous pairs of shoes. The jetting for this bike seems correct at the bottom but definately not at the top. Gowen and I both have had the Eric Gorr treatment done to topend so the jetting has been difficult.
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dont sell it, (unless you give us on this site a good deal first) jetting!! at 6500 feet here in the white mountains of arizonia took a couple of attempts then found this site and the very accurate jetting charts here, now no problem starts even down to 8 degrees (thats cold and i didn't ride very far before i came back for a hot toddy) But anyway i have seen to many people try to run to thick of oil (especially when weather cools) in dirt bikes. the factory recommended oil in ALL years of the K5 is MOTOR OIL 10W40l i have been useing castol 15/40 in my 99 K5 for years with no shifting, clutch, or kick start problems from well over 110 degrees to 5 degrees (far). just my 2cents worth. again if you must sell do it here first.
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I'll sell it here first!!! The kicker issue is a little of both...its wore and its cold. Onde the engine is hot it the kicker doesn't slip.
The jetting issue is another thing. The last time I rode it was d**n good to half throttle. Beyond that it was rich or the exhaust valves are hung up. If I decrease the main jet the bike starts having the famous 500 popping when the engine comes down from higher RPM. If I remember correctly it does the same thing if the clip is leaned out also. I think Gowen experimented with different needles and dialed it in that way.
The 1st $1500 will take it!!!
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I'll sell it here first!!! The kicker issue is a little of both...its wore and its cold. Onde the engine is hot it the kicker doesn't slip.
The jetting issue is another thing. The last time I rode it was d**n good to half throttle. Beyond that it was rich or the exhaust valves are hung up. If I decrease the main jet the bike starts having the famous 500 popping when the engine comes down from higher RPM. If I remember correctly it does the same thing if the clip is leaned out also. I think Gowen experimented with different needles and dialed it in that way.
The 1st $1500 will take it!!!
If I did not have so much money tied into my KX, I'd sell it. I'm having the same issues as your KX, except for the jetting part. ;-) The d**n kick starter doesn't grab. Currently, I just purchased an inline four that I'm going to build to replace it. But, I'll always have my 500, it is just going to be in the back of the garage from now on. I don't have the time, since I just moved last month to VA. What is bad, when I lived in the city, I used to ride more than I do now that I have land to ride all day long. It's funny how that works. I guess I'm getting old too.
Good luck with the sell!
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I've not fully cured my hard starting either. Cold starts (first of the day) have been easier since I followed the group's recommendations on procedure. I have also recently made some jetting changes to bring it closer to the forum recommended settings. I'm not getting good results now on hot restarts or restarts after sitting for an hour or so. The remaining step is to up the main jet from 155 to 160-165.
My ears perked up when hughes mentioned a new plug each time. I had the best luck when I had a fresh BR8EG. Could that be a sign of a weak ignition coil? stator? CDI? Or has anyone else experienced that? The timing is spot on the middle mark. The primary coil winding measures 1.0 Ohms (spec = 0.31+/- 15%); the secondary measures 8.19K Ohms (spec = 3.1K +/- 15%), so technically, it is not to spec. Anyone else measure their coil? Have not checked the CDI resistances or the stator coil yet.
Unfortunately, the more people I ride with, the more I've got to make excuses for that embarassing starting situation. Once it's running, I hesitate to shut it off unless I have a big downhill in front of me.
B
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I guess I'm just lucky. I have the jetting set to the chart here, and my bike is getting up there in age(97), but I can start mine with shoes on, and even started it really cold with no choke one of the first times I ever rode it. I hope you guys get this thing figured out soon. I love this bike and it will most likely be the last bike I ever own by the way it treats me so far. I brag about these bad boys everywhere I go and would like you guys to be able to do the same. Good luck!!!
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Gowen wrote: The d**n kick starter doesn't grab.
I have the same problem with my 04'. At first it wasn't so bad every once in a while it would not grab, but now it doesn't grab at all. Last time I rode my bike was Holloween. It took an hour to start it. When it would grab it would be at half stroke. After about an hour it grabed at the top of the stroke and it started. We were at Little Sahara State Park in Okla. I rode it out to the big dunes but was so worried I might kill the bike I only went up 2 of the big dunes, turned around and went back to camp. I put up the K5 and had to ride the 400EX. Talk about walk speed compaired to the K5. I still had fun but nothing like the blistering speed of the K5. When it does ingage on the top of the stroke it's a 2 kicker. I will open her up when I get some money set aside, in case I find something real bad inside. What P's me off is this bike only has about 25 hours on it. It's done this since day one. Any ideas ?
Thanks,
Danger
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When the cure is located. I will buy whatever parts are needed to keep as spares. My bike has had 190 gallons of fuel through it and the starter only slipped once, and I thought that may have been my fault. When you figure it out, make sure you post the fix. Thanks.
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I went back and read this whole thred to make sure I didn't miss anything.
Johnniespeed wrote:"Because I am not real tall (5'8") I sometimes use a milk crate or picnic table to stand on while kicking. I have found that by raising "ME" up I can apply much more force and speed to the "kick" I always wear motocross boots when kicking and I put my body,mind and soul into every kick. Hope this helps! Dont give up!"
I'm 6 ft. tall and I've only started my bike on flat ground maybe 10 times, when I killed it at low speed and couldn't find something to stand on. Even before I hurt my right knee I would stand on the bumper of the truck or the back of the trailer. Now my right knee will only bend about 90 degrees so I can't put my foot on the kicker unless I stand on something. My bike aways started fine when the kicker ingages. I'm thinking a burr on the shaft or weak spring that most likley broke last time I rode, because it won't engage now.
Dec. 11 th it will be 1 year since I wrecked the K5 and hurt my knee so bad. Oklahoma weather is wild. This time last year it was 70 degrees the day I wrecked, today it won't get above 10 degrees.
I will tear into the bike mid Jan. I'll keep everyone posted as to what I find.
Danger
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I'm 5'4, 155 lbs
My 97 KX5 is my first dirtbike (been riding motorcycles for 12 years)
I rebuilt the motor, 190 psi compression
The bike is stock height, and I always start the bike on flat ground. First or second kick it fires, even cold.
I think its all technique people! I do a couple of slow priming kicks, then carefully get it to TDC
And then I throw my body up as high as i can go and come down hard
"Kick" is kind of the wrong term - you can't jab it, I think about ramming the kicker down into the footpeg
I do it in tennis shoes anymore if I'm working on it. I found that what hurt my foot was when the kicker bottomed out on on the footpeg. THAT hurt!! so i ground some clearance into the footpeg so the kicker wouldn't bottom out so hard, and that made a world of difference...
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Iridiuum nailed it there! TECHNIQUE! You just can not be half arsed about this. Boot like you mean it. I was used to jabbing the KDX200. Then when I got a 500 all that changed. They have to be booted all the way. Start at the top and make sure that the kicker smacks the footpeg.
Mines fires up (usally) first kick hot or cold every time.
I do find the rocking in 2nd gear thing helps big time! When cold starting.
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Once mine is warm it starts 2nd or 3rd kick without incident. I checked the coils last year when it was rebuild and they showed similar properties...not within spec but darn close. I think the spark was much hotter and bigger with the 15 year old plug. The iridium or platinum plug that was in there didn't show the same spark even when new.
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On mine I do the primeing kicks, find TDC then kick it like a Harley. Starts first time. I have tried playing around with seat kicks to see and have NEVER started it that way.
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Kick it like a Harley? I dont think I could have ever thought of a better wording than that. I also heard on here someone say that you cant use a "leg kick" like you can a 250 or a 125. Its a "full body kick" to start the 500. I personally think that the key to starting the big5 is getting it to TDC before you kick. I learned this on a friends CR500 a couple years before I even bought my KX. I was the only one that could start the CR without wearing myself out just because I knew how to find TDC even though I was more of the less experienced rider at the time. It was kind of cool at the time having someone who could ride circles around me have to ask me to start the bike for them. Move the kicker through rotation slowly, you can feel the kicker gain resistence, then release and get easier. The point where the resistence stops, releases, and becomes easier is TDC. Get it right to the point where the resistence gives way, then let the kick lever come all the way back up to the top of its stroke, then give it a "full body kick". Put everything you have into it, your full body weight too, and take the time to find TDC EVERY TIME you kick it over or you're wasting your time. Hopefully this helps some of you out.