KX Riders
Commercially available service offered by members of KXRiders. => OEM-CYCLE => Topic started by: sandblaster on February 12, 2018, 11:40:03 AM
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Jason has had this bike kicking around for a lot of years...
In 1998 this was the bike of the year.
It is well worn and the top end is completely clapped out.
I've always focused on the KX500's but we are going to see what we can do on this KX250...
Before we do anything it is getting the air cleaner cleaned up, fresh fuel and oil, new plug, and a street tire on it.
Then it is headed to the dyno so we can have a good laugh at it..
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6711)
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38.8 RWHP @ 8200 RPM.....What’s your guesstimate? Goals?
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Is that something over the rear shock reservoir, or is that an Ohlins shock?
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38.8 RWHP @ 8200 RPM.....What’s your guesstimate? Goals?
I have no guesses or specific power goals other then more...
And, I will be keeping in mind a conversation we had a few years back 8-)
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Is that something over the rear shock reservoir, or is that an Ohlins shock?
Ohlins :-o
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It looks like it has aftermarket clamps too and at least one excel rim. Somebody must have loved it at one time. Do you guys know much about the bike?
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Jason bought the bike from me 17 years ago?
He used it for racing and went Expert on it.
But time went on and it became a back up bike...
Then it became a bike for friends to ride.
Then it sat for the last 5 years or so buried deep in the stack of bikes Jason owns.
The amazing thing is that it started up after the second kick...
Jason does own another 98 KX250 that is pristine but that is not what this build is about.
For me, it will be a bit of exploration...
For Jason, he will have a nice engine when it's done :-D
And some of us will learn new things 8-)
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any chance you want to part ways with the rear shock ? I got a spare I could trade + cash your way. if there is anything you want to know about this bike I pretty much know everything I have built 2 1997 / 1998 now within the last year.
such as the LHS sub exhaust valve that is now obsolete..... wears out on the alloy teeth but if it has the 1998 cylinder you can use the 1999 power valve with a slightly different part number that is still available and all measurements are exactly the same. I have the part numbers stashed away on my phone somewhere so let me know if you need them.
also I have a complete bike broken down for parts if you get stuck for anything at all.
:mrgreen:
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any chance you want to part ways with the rear shock ? I got a spare I could trade + cash your way.
This bike belongs to Jason Tanner from JT Engine Works and I can assure you that there is no way he will part with anything from this bike except maybe the seat :-D
if there is anything you want to know about this bike I pretty much know everything I have built 2 1997 / 1998 now within the last year.
Sweet. If you see anything that you would like to contribute, please feel free to post away.
I'm always interested in other helpful opinions.
such as the LHS sub exhaust valve that is now obsolete..... wears out on the alloy teeth but if it has the 1998 cylinder you can use the 1999 power valve with a slightly different part number that is still available and all measurements are exactly the same. I have the part numbers stashed away on my phone somewhere so let me know if you need them.
I appreciate your willingness to get the numbers but I have all the parts numbers stashed away here:
http://oem-cycle.com/KAWASAKIKX250BIKEID.shtml (http://oem-cycle.com/KAWASAKIKX250BIKEID.shtml)
also I have a complete bike broken down for parts if you get stuck for anything at all.
I'm pretty flush on parts for the project but if something comes up I will hit you up.
Thanks again for your willingness to chip in.
That's what makes these forums work 8-)
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The bike started on the second kick..
Amazing that it sat for 5 years in such rough condition and started right up..
After the clean up and start up, Jason decided that he wanted to use a different wheel and tire for the build...
I guess he was concerned about the extra weight..
After installing the tire he discovered that the bearings were junk.
I just happened to have some new mid 90's Yamaha YZ bearings which fit perfectly..
But, he will have to re-use his seals because the YZ seals are a larger diameter then the Kawi seals..
Just for grins I looked up the Rear Wheel HP for the 2018 KTM 250 SX and thought it was a blistering 37.8 hp.
BUt then I saw that it was for the 4T... :-(
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6718)
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Ok... The tire is on and we are ready for our first dyno run...
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6719)
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6720)
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Ok... The tire is on and we are ready for our first dyno run...
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6719)
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6720)
There is not enough silicone on that motorcycle :roll: lol.
Yeah I love my 97 kx250 its more of a backup bike for my race bike a 2016 yz250 but I still get around the practice track pretty quick on it.
(http://iforce.co.nz/i/dia4ilb2.0rh.jpg)
Mods include.
Applied engineering triple clamps, (unsure of offset)
Race Tech springs front and rear,
Pirelli mid soft 32 tyres,
KHI works cylinder head,
cleaned up 1998 cylinder with fresh Nikasil,
engine cases matched for flow,
Wossner piston,
Hardened Anodised clutch basket,
Jd jetting kit,
Vforce Reed block
Dep sport Factory finish pipe
Pro Circuit shorty tail pipe
and heres how she started out
(http://iforce.co.nz/i/d3pyu0ga.nht.jpg)
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Lol... Who doesn't love a bottle of tire shine dumped onto scabby old plastics...
Yes, old iron if set up correctly, and you know how to ride it, can be very competitive especially on the local tracks.
I love seeing the looks of these guys faces that have 12-15k + invested into their new tech and get blown into the weeds by a 20 year old 2T... 8-)
You did a nice restore.. :-o
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What I haven't shown is all the bottom end bearings, seals, gaskets, ect that I ordered for this project.
Today I received the last piece..
Gotta love those Wossner products 8-)
So now.. the balls in Jason's court to get get this thing dyno'd and start the tear down..
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6722)
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6723)
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Lol... Who doesn't love a bottle of tire shine dumped onto scabby old plastics...
That plastic renew stuff does really well on black. I did the fender and side panels on that 2003 250 I flipped last year. It’s easy to use, and it doesn’t wash off.
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I don't care about the rest of the bike, I only care about the engine :lol:
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Today we took the bike to a local shop to get some base line dyno numbers.
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6732)
https://youtu.be/894qkgV4HIM (https://youtu.be/894qkgV4HIM)
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Ok... Jason cleaned and polished the crank and rod.
Remember, send them off dirty and they generally come back dirty.. :-o
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6733)
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6734)
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6735)
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6736)
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6737)
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6738)
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6739)
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Well... we are a step closer to dyno results.. Steve Parris just finished cutting the crank webs...
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6769)
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Just in from Steve.....
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6770)
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Going back together as it was with just the crank or.....?
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We are going to put in some new bearings there but everything else will be the same.
The plan is to make several changes over time and dyno each mod.
I'm tired of butt dyno results :-o
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I'm also doing a KX500 but the approach will be a bit different as far as the order of the mods.
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Just in from Steve.....
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6770)
Any credit to the turbo crank mod? ive been reading a lot about it on other forums and it seems to be that everyone has put it off as a fad. I ask because I just recently brought a stack of 97 kx250 parts and it came with this mod already done to the crankshaft and fitted with a royal rod. Havnt spun it up with some DTIs yet but it appears to be brand new. I have never heard of this mod before hand but I understand its to increase velocity in the crank case and although the theory is there wouldn't it push lubrication away from the lower rod bearing?
:mrgreen:
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Steve Parris did the turbo mod for us.
Steve is the only person with a patent on the Turbo crank.
Turbo cranks were all the rage about 30 or so years ago.
Some say that it works, some say that it does not.
Steve says that he would not have spent 15K getting a patent on it if it did not work.
One thing I can tell you, not all Turbo cranks are created the same.
Most try fanning the charge up the transfers.
Generally they gained a bit off the bottom end and lost off the top end.
Steve claims that his design gets more all the way through the RPM range and adds from 600-1000 rpm to the top.
Also, oiling to the entire top end is improved...
That all sounds wonderful.... but does it work?
We will find out likely by the end of this week so stay tuned.
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Lazy roll on 5th gear wheelie..
https://youtu.be/c-t4_qovPcI (https://youtu.be/c-t4_qovPcI)
I think we are ready for a dyno pull...
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Turbo cranks are completely different to jet then a standard crank...
We went round and round before we started dialing it in..
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6863)
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It sounds stout; I can't wait to see what it will pull on the dyno.
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It sounds stout; I can't wait to see what it will pull on the dyno.
And then... drop in a new top end and see what happens.... And then start modding the top end and see what happens :-)
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Did you ever post a before HP number, or is that part of the suspense?
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This Friday at 4 we will have some additional dyno numbers.
I will be posting percentages of increase or decrease depending on what we find.
Why not HP numbers?
On two different dyno's we recorded a variance of 19% which is not unusual so, how do we know what is correct?
However, each dyno should show the % correctly of increase or decrease accurately.
Just to tickle you the low dyno said 37hp at the rear wheel. The owner of this dyno said it would be low.
The high dyno said 43hp at the rear wheel.
That was on a worn out top end with no Turbo crank.
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That’s pretty stout for a worn out motor. :-o
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Yeah, it ran pretty good when I last rode it about 6 years ago...
No brakes though... scary...
Ok, ok, they worked but not at a level that I was comfortable with :-o
I found myself saying whooooooaaaaaa... too many times that day..
But this is just the start... We have a lot planned for this bike....
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Oscar Cota mentioned on FB yesterday that it was a big day for all the guys here at KX Guru Racing. And it's true,,, but not just for us.. Steve Parris has been working with us for a year and a half to get us a Turbo Crank, get it installed, and ran on a dyno. But before I get into all the details let me say to you Steve, everything you told us about your Turbo crank was spot on. It did everything you said. After all these years of having some people say that it does not work, making fun of it, and being down right foolish about it, we have our first bit of proof that it does work. Yes, read it again... IT WORKS!!! IF you ran a turbo crank in the past and showed little to no gains then you did not run one of Steve's cranks.
For a recap for those that may have missed it, we took Jason Tanner's clapped out 98 kx250 and ran it on two separate dyno's. Then we rebuilt the bottom end with Steve's Turbo crank and reinstalled the worn out top end. . We had to rejet due to how the turbo crank works... Then today we stuck it on one of the dyno's and made several runs.... We recorded a 15% increase in power... 15 %........ I think once we get the jetting spot on we might be able to squeeze closer to 20%. Hopefully we will get in next week to the second dyno for validation.... More will be forthcoming as we post more info and get further proof... But as of right now, I know it works... Very impressive Steve.....
I know it was a little premature but we have a Turbo Crank in Jeff Grawbargers drag bike.
We should have some numbers on it very very soon..
(https://scontent.fslc2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32440664_2446183112074175_1592874400808435712_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=b8e0687f20c3f1e477d838cbe0f16243&oe=5B9ADA47)
Here is the only mod made to the cases... It's mandatory or the Turbo Crank just won't work.
(https://scontent.fslc2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32294444_1810895182290253_6119776824214945792_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=d43727d87e1bf80d6b9c32de666eeff4&oe=5B95DD03)
(https://scontent.fslc2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32312925_1810896238956814_4189971915596627968_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=c5cf59ea3a673418d4dddc49d601d586&oe=5B8A17A6)
I still think we need to lean out the needle a tad and the main jet one jet size. We just didn't have the time as the owner was trying to close on a busy Friday... When we take the bike to Dyno #2 we should have that done and ready to test so it will be interesting..
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15-20% is an insane amount more power. That's a pretty exciting Mod.
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Well... We have 15% right now. But looking at the dyno charts we need to lean the midrange a bit and the top end.
We are running it on a second dyno later this week to verify the first dyno numbers.
I'm betting we will get it to between 17-18%
But remember... this is very early in our testing.
We are going to be using different heads, pipes, and port mods to see what we can get out of it.
Also, sometime this month we are going to put Brute's old KX500 on the dyno and see what it pulls.
It is completely stock.
Then we will do the turbo crank mod to it and see how it reacts.
Remember, KX500's don't respond to crank mods as well as the smaller bikes do.
The cost of a Turbo crank is 350 plus shipping... Figure about another 50 there and back if you insure it through USPS.
So it is not a cheap mod but if your doing your crank anyway you might as well do it.... IF it pans out for the 500.
I'm hopeful but we won't know till we know...