KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: 1980mcneil on May 07, 2017, 05:45:00 AM
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Want to make the K5 into a real crawler. We have some very tight single track here in Washington and I'm trying to avoid lots of clutch work. If I could knock first gear down a third or half that would be perfect for crawling. And I could do most of my trail work in second or third. I pretty much never use fifth. Especially at the speed it's meant for. So I won't be loosing top end for what I do.
Without modifications. What's the smallest front, and largest rear sprocket I can run? ( That would give the desired effect 1/3-1/2 of stock speed)
BTW. Already have the heaviest powerdynamo fly. PSP2 pipe and Reed spacer.
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14-52 would probably work well. What are currently running?.
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It's stock.
I looked on a chart and looks like 14-52 would go from 3.38 to 3.71.
Seems like a 10% difference. I think I'm trying for closer to 33%
Do you know the lowest front I can run without mods or rubbing? Largest rear?
Of course I don't really know what I'm talking about. Just using this chart
https://www.google.com/search?q=sprocket+ratio&oq=sprocket+ratio&aqs=chrome..69i57.10067j0j4&client=ms-android-att-us&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=FSeyeJMaB88yiM:
Looks like a 4.58 would give me the desired result.
So a 12-55 or 13-59. If that's even possible or I'm using the chart correctly
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You could go to 13 on the front...but watch your case!!...there's several controversial threads on here about running 13T fronts allowing the chain to tear up the engine case. My bike will never see a 13. There's a member on here that says he modifies the case a bit so there's no issue...but again, that's entirely up to you.
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Looks like I would need a 63-64 on the rear to get the results I'm looking for. Is that doable?
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oh man...you'd probably have to do away with the rear chain guide, or modify it for such a bigger sprocket. That's if you can even get a rear that big for the K5...anything's possible.
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Yeah. I don't want to modify :/ don't want to rub on the front either.
So it sounds like the answer will be the 14 on front, and whatever the largest rear I can run. I'm also going to an 18" rim. Maybe I could run a slightly lower sidewall to get closer to my objective.
I'll do some more research on a 13 up front
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there's a few members you can PM for suggestions...zz3gmc, alward25, GREENKAW24.
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the old wheelie king doug domokos use to use a huge back sprocket on a early 80s kx , so check that out , i would get a custom one made , i had one done for a different model that they didnt make one for ,they done it in alloy.
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Don't think I'll go custom.
I've done some more research. Hoping I can run a 13 up front, 52 or larger in back. 18" wheel possibly smaller overall diameter.
Couple other things I've come across in my searching
1. 14oz stealthy fly weight. Will it work with the MZB/powerdynamo?
2. Heard of using up to 4 exhaust copper crush gaskets to help smooth power?
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If you use the Power D ignition you don't need a flywheel weight. The Steahly will not work anyway. Use a reed spacer to smooth out the power. I ran 14/50 in the woods with a Power D 38oz flywheel and a 140/80/18 IRC M5B. I did not run the spacer but I am a little crazier in the woods than some. Bike was a tractor in the Oregon Coast range.
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Ive tried 49,50 and 51t rear sprockets and finally settled on a 14/51 combo. I race enduros and trail ride my 500. I had a 14oz Steahly which worked well but during its current rebuild Im installing a PD ignition. The 50 worked well but the 51 let me pull taller gears and smoothed the power delivery.
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hava look at the what the short trackers are using. I don't know what you mob in the usa call them, aussies call them solos ( 500 cc single speed). I done some pit work for a friend who rode solos those guys have some gear setups, boxes full of cogs sprockets and chains.
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Couple things alward25.
The powerdynamo website says my flywheel is 35oz or 2.1 lbs. I've heard the stock Flywheel is 2.6lbs plus 14oz for the steahly = around 3.5lbs.
A stealhy on the powerdynamo would be about 3lbs
So still not as good as an effect as the stocker with the fww.
The PD and stock Flywheel look pretty d**n similar. Reason why they won't work? Is the PD wider, using up more of the room under the cover?
Does a 13 front rub with a normal size chain?
I would like to run 13/51. But I will do 14/51 if I have too,. WhTs the largest that can be run on back without mods? If I can't run a 13 up front, maybe I could do a 52 or three on the back.
I don't know that I'll go all crazy with ultra-low gearing. I'm just more interested in knowing the limits without modification, just so I know what's possible.
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What is not being considered is what the Power D is doing better than the stock ignition, creating a magneto effect. There is more mass behind the flywheel using the Power D. It is like a flywheel weight without the weight. Power D recently changed the flywheel design, It was a 38oz now it is 35oz. More weight out on the crank can also cause the bearings to prematurely wear. The stock flywheel weighs 41 oz. But there is almost no mass behind it so there is almost nothing to create the same effect. Running a 13t front sprocket will also increase the chance of wearing on your cases. Lose the weight, use a reed spacer if you want to mellow the engine. The 500 will lug way down better than any other 2T, using the Power D of course.
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If you want to build a torque monster, do everything that Alex (Alward25) recommends and... Drop your port timing.
You will loose on the top but you will gain it on the bottom.
And, Alex and I are working on a special set of drum valves to get all that top end back and still keeping the major bottom end improvement from dropping the port timing. Sorry, they are not available yet but we are working on it.. sorta..
Also, get a 38mm Quad vent air striker... more instant throttle response throughout the rpm range, and 1 hp gain to the rear wheel.
I didn't re-read the entire thread but a woods pipe also helps out..
A auto clutch is also a cool woods option...
Of course there is also the big bore option :-o
But pulling stumps and towing tracked vehicles out of mud holes isn't for everyone :lol:
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Is anyone making an auto clutch for the 500 anymore? I'm asking for a friend. :-D
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I'd call Revloc..
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These guys have them, for $925. :-o
http://www.totalspeed.net/secure/revloc/secureformrv.htm (http://www.totalspeed.net/secure/revloc/secureformrv.htm)
I think I am going to try stock springs in mine. I thought I was just going soft until Danger came over, tried my clutch, and said, "d**n, that is hard to use!". It made me feel a little less girly. :-D
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I have an FMF Woods pipe that's in really good shape, that I'll never use again 1980mcneil, if you're interested...just pay the shipping and it's yours.
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I have an FMF Woods pipe that's in really good shape, that I'll never use again 1980mcneil, if you're interested...just pay the shipping and it's yours.
I tried to p.m. you but I'm blocked.
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I have an FMF Woods pipe that's in really good shape, that I'll never use again 1980mcneil, if you're interested...just pay the shipping and it's yours.
I tried to p.m. you but I'm blocked.
you're good.
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I'd call Revloc..
Blaster means Rekluse, and the Recluse is in the R&D phase right now. AFM makes one right now.
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I'd call Revloc..
Blaster means Rekluse, and the Recluse is in the R&D phase right now. AFM makes one right now.
Nope... I mean Revloc :-)
And get the expensive one :-o
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I'd call Revloc..
Blaster means Rekluse, and the Recluse is in the R&D phase right now. AFM makes one right now.
I love the Rekluse in my 250, but it would really kick butt in a 500. How far out are they?
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http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php?topic=4502.0;wap2 (http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php?topic=4502.0;wap2)
I'd like to try one before I drop the big coin..
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Tom over at Enduro Pilot said the Revloc's only real drawback is they dirty the oil quicker than the Rekluse, and the parts are getting harder to find. I think they're only available new (not NOS) from Australia I think. I have an AFM in my KDX, and its only real drawback is the lack of a clutch lever. A Rekluse would be better in my opinion.
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The big question for me is can the Rekluse hold up to 70hp at the rear wheel and remain reliable...
Any thoughts?
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I'm not sure how they will do it. Maybe thinner plates so they can get more in the basket?
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I spoke to EFM and they will make you one e for $650. Just gotta send a basket to them and then you need the Billet clutch cover spacer I've seen floating around the forums or on the Facebook KX Guru page. Don't remember how much they were asking...?
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Last week I put a new clutch in my DRZ400. I had read that a KX500 clutch works as that was what the GNCC and WORCS guys were using back in the day in their DRZs. I put a complete KX500 clutch in my DRZ and also found that the pressure plate is exactly the same between the DRZ and the KX500. What Im getting at is it may be possible to use a auto clutch from a DRZ in a KX500.
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The big question for me is can the Rekluse hold up to 70hp at the rear wheel and remain reliable...
Any thoughts?
They make them for Harley's and all the big adventure bikes so I would be inclined to say yes. Is Revloc in Australia only now? They closed up shop in the US.
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They make them for Harley's and all the big adventure bikes so I would be inclined to say yes. Is Revloc in Australia only now? They closed up shop in the US.
I don't know, your the new parts guy... All I do is wallow in my junk piles :lol:
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I spoke to EFM and they will make you one e for $650. Just gotta send a basket to them and then you need the Billet clutch cover spacer I've seen floating around the forums or on the Facebook KX Guru page. Don't remember how much they were asking...?
My KDX EFM clutch has an aluminum spacer in it. The one from KXGuru is to convert your cover to a two piece unit. I don't think it would be thick enough.
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The big question for me is can the Rekluse hold up to 70hp at the rear wheel and remain reliable...
Any thoughts?
They make them for Harley's and all the big adventure bikes so I would be inclined to say yes. Is Revloc in Australia only now? They closed up shop in the US.
All I could find for Revloc was the Australian website and a few places in the US that stock them. Do you know how far out the Rekluse guys are from releasing their clutch?
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To mod for the AFM you could still use the KX Guru adaptor ring, just don't machine as much off the cover when you install the ring.
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Or, if you already have a two piece cover, buy another adapter ring, drill through holes instead of tapping and you have a perfect spacer :-)
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The spacer on my EFM is about 1/2" thick, while my KXGuru adapter is closer to 1/4". I guess I wasn't thinking about cutting it off a little higher so the two piece cover would clear the auto clutch. That's a good idea. I would think EFM would also have some sort of solution for people that buy their clutches for the KX 500.
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Yeah, the adapters start at about 1/4" thick but do end finishing a few thousands under..
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Umberto, can you give us a review on your EFM?
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The clutch itself works really well. I think it hooks up even a little better than the Rekluse in my 250 that has the medium springs in it. There are two things I don't like about it: you have to push the bike and then put it in gear while rolling the first time you start it for the day, and there is no clutch lever to fan if you get in a jam. It makes you really use your transmission. I think on a 500 it would be great in the woods, but maybe not as fun in more open spaces. It does seem to be durable, as everything else on the bike was clapped out, but the clutch still hooked up like a champ.
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I spoke with the guys at EFM today, just to follow up on what 198mcneil found out. They said you would need to send them your full clutch, and it would take 3-5 days to get it completed. I guess their newer models are a little different from the one in my KDX, because you can still use your clutch lever with this model.
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Okay. So the whole thing needs to go. Sorry about the bad information on the basket only claim.
That's great that the clutch is fully usable now.
Did you get any further clarification on what kind of cover or adapter is needed?
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He said that all you need is an extra 1/2" spacer, and that the two piece cover makes it a lot easier to install.
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So I ended up purchasing a 51 tooth rear sprocket. Seen quite a few people online have used them. Went to put it on and it was to big. Meaning it hit the black lower chain gauerd. I didn't want to mod anything but I'm interested in trying this gearing.
Is it safe to run the bike without the lower chain holder and just use the teflon guides?
What is an easy mod to lower the guide and holders? Maybe just a plate with some holes drilled in it that drops it an inch?
Thank you
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So I ended up purchasing a 51 tooth rear sprocket. Seen quite a few people online have used them. Went to put it on and it was to big. Meaning it hit the black lower chain gauerd. I didn't want to mod anything but I'm interested in trying this gearing.
Is it safe to run the bike without the lower chain holder and just use the teflon guides?
What is an easy mod to lower the guide and holders? Maybe just a plate with some holes drilled in it that drops it an inch?
Thank you
Did you get this figured out? I just bought a 51 tooth rear sprocket as well. How are others running this setup?
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I actually haven't figured it out yet unfortunately. To me it looks as though the chain guide just needs to be dropped half an inch or an inch. If you look at the chain guide it attaches to a quarter inch piece of aluminum with three holes in it I believe. Simply making a one inch extension for that out of quarter inch aluminum or Steel would drop it down enough to probably work just fine. I have a machine shop at work but we've been really busy so I haven't been able to Fab one up real quick. Hopefully in the next week or so and I'll take a picture of then chili and post my results. I know some people have run these sprockets and I was hoping to hear from some of them but I just haven't had any luck yet with it. I'm not going to risk running no chain guard. And the 51 tooth will hit the stockyard. Also with a 13 tooth front sprocket I needed the slightly longer chain to fit 251 and obviously the 53 that I really wanted to put on it