KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: alexander-vmann on August 31, 2015, 07:53:35 AM
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i noticed a exhaust leak in the fron, oil was spitting on to the pipe so i took of the pipe to re install it with some high temp silicone, i used a flashligth to look at the piston and exhaust valves, one valve was sorta pointing towords the piston a bit more then the other so i pushed them with my finger and one sprung back nicely and one not so nice THE QUESTION is how do i check if they opperate proberly without takeing the entire thing apart?
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Sorry buddy, if one isn't springing back correctly then they are not working right.
It sounds like you need to disassemble the cylinder, remove the valves and clean them and the cylinder, then reassemble.
While you have the top off check it good...
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Sorry buddy, if one isn't springing back correctly then they are not working right.
It sounds like you need to disassemble the cylinder, remove the valves and clean them and the cylinder, then reassemble.
While you have the top off check it good...
yeah that is what i thought, but how are the power valves supposed to function? i pushed them inwards towards the piston, i only hope that is the way they go since they would not go the other way :-P and is it safe to pull the pin that connects to the govenor arm to see if they both open?
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One way that you get the partial story is to pull the right plastic linkage cover off.
Start the bike.
As you rev it up the linkage should smoothly and quickly actuate.
If it hangs anywhere then there is a issue with sticky valves (Which you know you have) Or a problem with your governor, or both.
If you remove the linkage and then actuate by hand it should work very easily.
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One way that you get the partial story is to pull the right plastic linkage cover off.
Start the bike.
As you rev it up the linkage should smoothly and quickly actuate.
If it hangs anywhere then there is a issue with sticky valves (Which you know you have) Or a problem with your governor, or both.
If you remove the linkage and then actuate by hand it should work very easily.
and if exhaust is comming from the linkage?
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There is a seal on that linkage shaft that may be worn out.
Also the shaft may be worn out and leaking air as well as the seal...
Air leaks are not good...
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wow id like to drop my couple cents worth of what o can share related to this topic. . sounds to me like its your first go round with these valves. gotta drain the coolant. and remove the barrel/jug. everybody has their way of what parts are left connected. but to me the tank the seat the plastics the carb, pipe and spark arrester /silencer are off the bike while im catching the coolant in a bucket. i find it so much easier to take off the six bolts and loosen 3 clamps to remove the radiator halves leaving the long hose connected to the water pump and the left sides connected to the radiator. then rather than remove the short hose above the water pump by loosening the clamp just drop the two bolts that secure the nipple to the cylinder jug, but remember the o-ring that seals the gap between the jug and that nipple when you separate the two. you dont want to have to look for it when it gets away accidentally. you dont have to take the radiator halves off but as i was getting to it makes it so much easier separating and reinstalling the cylinder jug. now you only have the spark plug four nuts on the jug base and a nut under the rubber boot that connects the governor arm to the power /exhaust valve assembly.(oh and the two bolts that fasten the plastic cover that protects the actuator rod end on the outside of the cylinder jug. slide the jug off and you dont have to but i personally would drain the transmission oil remove the kick starter rear brake pedal and remove the clutch cover. its a good time to look at everything not bottom end related right now. i mean s**t is time consuming and odds are youll have to replace the idler gear due to the carbon built up on the exhaust valve assembly , because in all reality that idler gear is the only thing that keeps the two valves in synchronized motion . and when the carbon gets too thick, the teeth of the idler gear are the first thing to feel the pain.any way theres really no simple way to get a carbon caked power valve assembly to come free once you get the screw that holds the seal in place and the 2 little tiny circlips that hold the end of the valve rod off. if you need any pointer on removing the two valve guides and idler guide all i can say is first and foremost before you take these out and think youve won the exhaust valves are marked on the top of the rods as to which one goes on which port. one of them , and i do believe its the rod on the right side(as you are holding the jug upside down exhaust side facing your belly) the valve that sits next to the idler gear has a little ring on the top of the shaft that indicates that is the valve that needs to go on that side..do not forget that. very important. now theres also the main exhaust valve. its like a damper that works in conjunction with the rod valves. thats whats under those two bolts that hold that little oval like piece of aluminum . take those two bolts out and you will have another two bolts inside holding that on place. once you get all this stuff out decarbonize the whole lot of it. if you dont have the clymer manual m447-3 it would be a good investment at this point . i have some literature if you would like me to send it to you but not something i should probably post on an open website. it has to do with the reassembly of the system. alignment of the valves and pushrod are crucial and the gears on the valves are marked with little dots. as well as there are also alignment lines marked on the pushrod.so this is where a picture would be best. just let me know ifyou need the literature and ill send directly to you.
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wow id like to drop my couple cents worth of what o can share related to this topic. . sounds to me like its your first go round with these valves. gotta drain the coolant. and remove the barrel/jug. everybody has their way of what parts are left connected. but to me the tank the seat the plastics the carb, pipe and spark arrester /silencer are off the bike while im catching the coolant in a bucket. i find it so much easier to take off the six bolts and loosen 3 clamps to remove the radiator halves leaving the long hose connected to the water pump and the left sides connected to the radiator. then rather than remove the short hose above the water pump by loosening the clamp just drop the two bolts that secure the nipple to the cylinder jug, but remember the o-ring that seals the gap between the jug and that nipple when you separate the two. you dont want to have to look for it when it gets away accidentally. you dont have to take the radiator halves off but as i was getting to it makes it so much easier separating and reinstalling the cylinder jug. now you only have the spark plug four nuts on the jug base and a nut under the rubber boot that connects the governor arm to the power /exhaust valve assembly.(oh and the two bolts that fasten the plastic cover that protects the actuator rod end on the outside of the cylinder jug. slide the jug off and you dont have to but i personally would drain the transmission oil remove the kick starter rear brake pedal and remove the clutch cover. its a good time to look at everything not bottom end related right now. i mean s**t is time consuming and odds are youll have to replace the idler gear due to the carbon built up on the exhaust valve assembly , because in all reality that idler gear is the only thing that keeps the two valves in synchronized motion . and when the carbon gets too thick, the teeth of the idler gear are the first thing to feel the pain.any way theres really no simple way to get a carbon caked power valve assembly to come free once you get the screw that holds the seal in place and the 2 little tiny circlips that hold the end of the valve rod off. if you need any pointer on removing the two valve guides and idler guide all i can say is first and foremost before you take these out and think youve won the exhaust valves are marked on the top of the rods as to which one goes on which port. one of them , and i do believe its the rod on the right side(as you are holding the jug upside down exhaust side facing your belly) the valve that sits next to the idler gear has a little ring on the top of the shaft that indicates that is the valve that needs to go on that side..do not forget that. very important. now theres also the main exhaust valve. its like a damper that works in conjunction with the rod valves. thats whats under those two bolts that hold that little oval like piece of aluminum . take those two bolts out and you will have another two bolts inside holding that on place. once you get all this stuff out decarbonize the whole lot of it. if you dont have the clymer manual m447-3 it would be a good investment at this point . i have some literature if you would like me to send it to you but not something i should probably post on an open website. it has to do with the reassembly of the system. alignment of the valves and pushrod are crucial and the gears on the valves are marked with little dots. as well as there are also alignment lines marked on the pushrod.so this is where a picture would be best. just let me know ifyou need the literature and ill send directly to you.
ok i think i should be able to get the cylinder of(i have done it on four strokes) but for the powervalves im going to have to look on youtube,(i have a mild autism and having visual instructions makes it much easier for me)
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you know what before i had the the clymer m447-3 manual i looked all over the web. utube doesnt have squat that is going to help you. there is a site that offers some information its (my spelling is not exactly right but its called ) keustermanns.youll find some information there. also google kx500 shop manual and if you do a little scrolling or try another key word other than shop manual maybe service manual or related you will find a FREE pdf downloadable base service manual with supplemental chapters that cover the things that changed from year to year. like i said its free. if all that fails i have a scanner and all i have to do is scan the d**n page from the book and blank out any identifying marks as to who im infringing on. just tell me if it comes to that and ill do it post haste., ya im sure you can remove the cylinder . if you dont already have one make sure you have a thin walled 14 mm 6pt(hex) box end wrench. oll be d**ned if i know how the hell a person os supposed to correctly torque 3 of those cylinder base nits but i guess if you do the one you can then get a feel for how tight that nut is with the box end 14mm you can kinda get her close. just snug the other 3 nuts before torquing the 1 you can get a socket on. let me know and any questions you may have several of the veterans here know some things i may not. but this kips exhaust valve mechanism was the subject that led me to this site and ultimately drove me to become a member. so im pretty savvy with this part. funny thing is i had the clymer manual and took the d**n thing apart and reassembled it the same way 3 times before sandblaster and fox4beaver got it through my head its time to search for the problem i was having elsewhere. the first time you remove the valve guides its going to take all the patience you have to get them out if carbon is built up to the degree it sounds like it is.pb bolt breaker wd40 wiggle the thing. start with the guide that has the half moon shape up0 next to the other guide. try forcing some compressed air up into the valve ports to push the guides out. the 2 full circle guides have rubber o-rings so be careful. just a warning try not to put pliers on the valve shaft ends you can see sticking out from the guides. if you scar them even just a little bit the will hang up upon reassembly and youll feel you need to force the guides over them to seat. but if that does become the case just take some fine sandpaper to the areas you scarred trying to remove them . get em so thee guides just drop right over them smoothly without any resistance.AND REMEMBER THE VALVE NEXT TO THE IDLER GEAR IS MARKED NEAR THE END OF THE SHAFT WITH A RING AROUND IT. THAT ONE MUST BE REPLACED WHERE IT CAME FROM. GOOD LUCK
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Does the clymer you talk about cover the 1987 engine to?
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just to add one more thing . sandblaster said when you have the cylinder jug to check it good. he is serious,. get a flashlight and after its clean look down all the port walls inside the cylinder every angle you can view any of it from. the kx500 cylinder cavity is prone to getting small fractures when the carbon is built up from not having the proper tdc clearance or whatever is happening during combustion. if the carbon is built up in the top if the piston look near the wrist pin that holds the piston on right above it and below it. carbon built up it continually touches the top of the head cap weakening the piston skirt until it cracks the piston skirt and eventually if continued will shatter the piston skirt and most likely destroy the cylinder if not more than just that. i know from experience. so do a thorough inspection and cleaning. its an awesome machine if you keep up with the things that it requires to remain awesome.
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let me go out and get my book and ill tell ya. i believe its all years ogf the kx500. i bought it specifically for that. wait just a min or two
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1983 -2004 but anyway do some searching if you need the picture and steps that go with it ill scan and send it to your email. but im going to fire mine upo and go burn off some premix. happy happy joy joy
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I think Im good. Ill buy my own clymer. Im gonna have use for it sooner or later :D
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and if exhaust is comming from the linkage?
funny...after reading this a couple weeks ago, I noticed a small amount of spooge leaking around the rubber boot that connects to the plastic cover....so I ordered all new stuff too, from my buddy who's the parts manager...
this showed up today...all for $46.95, his cost.
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac152/foxx4afoxx2/IMG_0198_zpsbsrr9ptj.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/foxx4afoxx2/media/IMG_0198_zpsbsrr9ptj.jpg.html)
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and if exhaust is comming from the linkage?
funny...after reading this a couple weeks ago, I noticed a small amount of spooge leaking around the rubber boot that connects to the plastic cover....so I ordered all new stuff too, from my buddy who's the parts manager...
this showed up today...all for $46.95, his cost.
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac152/foxx4afoxx2/IMG_0198_zpsbsrr9ptj.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/foxx4afoxx2/media/IMG_0198_zpsbsrr9ptj.jpg.html)
Now your cookin with gas :lol:
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heck now i know who to go to when i need parts. just kidding. have you opened her up yet. if so hows that idler gears teeth look. and how was the carbon build up?
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no put i got new gasket for whenever i can find the energy, is there a way i can tell if the piston is a prox before it turns to gravel? i want to make sure the previous owner didnt take anymore shortcuts
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small update, i finally got started, and i took out the old 93 jug i got lying around, so i can do a practice run
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It will say Pro-x on the inside.
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It will say Pro-x on the inside.
thank you
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any usable stuff in this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkPU6V-cIxE
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tried doing a practice run on the 93 jug, the design is diffrent from the 87 so hopefully it wont be to diffecult, had to drill out the screw that holds the seal for the pin that dics that you know english words n stuff, and i was only able to get out one of the valves, the other one was spinning around but would not come out :/ and it seams that there is no new seal in the gasket kit i got even though it says so on the package :/
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keepc on trying ./ i know those power valves can be one m'er f'er to remove./ its best to get both of them so ....you know. i dont know how well the different year jug is going to be . but like you said all you can do is try...right? keep us posted.
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keepc on trying ./ i know those power valves can be one m'er f'er to remove./ its best to get both of them so ....you know. i dont know how well the different year jug is going to be . but like you said all you can do is try...right? keep us posted.
87 only has two power valves, the 93 i worked on yeaster day was missing a few parts but still the 87 SHOULD (probably wont) be easier
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i made a strange discovery today, i took of the linkage arm cover and the governor arm had poped out of the two discs, i was able to slide it back in, the governor arm can move back an forth aswell as the normal side to side, i guess the arm had slid back and the poped out, when i got it back in i tried opening and closing the valves by pulling on the arm, and the valves seem to open and close just fine, not sure if perfect :? but they function, so now im confused how do i keep the arm from sliding back, and should i still take of the cylinder?
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i got the cylinder of, but the design on the 87 is way diffrent then the 93, i dont actully know how to get the valves out now :| there is no eclip that retain them and the kips bolt is stuck
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with the help of sandblaster i was able to get the valves out, they're heavy on carbon build up and there is some damage to the theet (http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/Alexander_Veldman/20151124_2222121_zpscwnzjlco.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/Alexander_Veldman/20151124_2222201_zps9bwmz1su.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/Alexander_Veldman/20151124_2222371_zpsw5pm2aqw.jpg)
http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=1109#p4508
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It's a shame you're in Norway. Sandblaster could get those valves looking like new in no time.
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It's a shame you're in Norway. Sandblaster could get those valves looking like new in no time.
maybe he has a exhange program :P
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Yes I do.
I exchange parts for cash or K5 knowledge 8-)
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i did the magnet test, and i think its a sleeve, it seems to have some wear on the wall, could this be fixed by a ligth hone?
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got the parts in the mail today, so i tried assembeling the valves, but i havent got the timing rigth, both the short teeht's on the valves are int the marked groves on the valve rod, but one is open when the other is closed :?, and my clymer manual doesnt cover the timing on the 86-88 head :|
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tried timing the valves today, they're open at the same time but one closes more then the other :?
closed
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/Alexander_Veldman/20151213_1855091_zpsfmrrecsa.jpg)(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/Alexander_Veldman/20151213_1855231_zpspcpyqj0h.jpg)
open
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/Alexander_Veldman/20151213_1857211_zpsrkemg7o7.jpg)(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/Alexander_Veldman/20151213_1857311_zpsnpvzukel.jpg)
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small update today, i put the cylinder back on and head with the new gaskets, i did have a little dum dum when i first put on the cylinder 1/4 way and realised that the bottom gasket was missing :roll: . then i installed all the new radiator hoses, so tommorrow i will try to put in the reed cage with the new boyesen dual stage reeds (should be innteresting to see how they work) and finally change the float needle in the carburetor wich i have been meaning to do for 6 months now, and maybe if things go well i'll be able to try and fire it up
-sorry me ingish
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8-)
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i got in the reed cage and set to change the float valve, i checked the float heigth with the new valve and old, the old was 11mm the new about 15-16mm, then i filled up the coolant and noticed a leak from the water pump cover(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl3euCXhpaQ) and the kill switch stopped working (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl3euCXhpaQ) BUT the engine started second kick and the valves open and close, it's probably running rich thouhg so i still have some work to do :roll:
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here is the proof, thanks for the help guys! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkfjSO_1Yhw
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tried timing the valves today, they're open at the same time but one closes more then the other :?
closed
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/Alexander_Veldman/20151213_1855091_zpsfmrrecsa.jpg)(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/Alexander_Veldman/20151213_1855231_zpspcpyqj0h.jpg)
open
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/Alexander_Veldman/20151213_1857211_zpsrkemg7o7.jpg)(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/Alexander_Veldman/20151213_1857311_zpsnpvzukel.jpg)
You need to fix the over closing kipps valves , that the reason they are wrong on the closed position
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tried timing the valves today, they're open at the same time but one closes more then the other :?
closed
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/Alexander_Veldman/20151213_1855091_zpsfmrrecsa.jpg)(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/Alexander_Veldman/20151213_1855231_zpspcpyqj0h.jpg)
open
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/Alexander_Veldman/20151213_1857211_zpsrkemg7o7.jpg)(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/Alexander_Veldman/20151213_1857311_zpsnpvzukel.jpg)
You need to fix the over closing kipps valves , that the reason they are wrong on the closed position
how do you suggest i do that? i dont think i can just put them in a diffrent grove on the valve rod
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There are Two ways to do it,
First way can be done at any time by simply fitting a 4/5mm bearing inside the allen head bolt shown here http://www.hallbergs.net/kx500/images/picture11.jpg
Second way only can be done with the topend removed {the way i do it}
This way i put the kipps valves on differant grove on the valve rod/ but modify the stop on rod
This way has the advantage It will keep the kipps rod in original position /angle
The black ARROW point to the way i modify the stop with a 5mm width nut
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg119/cr500-af/kx500%2088%20cases/SAM_0990_zpspyftl6il.jpg)
valves in closed position
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg119/cr500-af/SAM_0951_zpselt8eici.jpg)
i later modified this valve for better flow but this is correct position for stock valve
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg119/cr500-af/SAM_0962_zpsbnvgbgtk.jpg)
Not great flow from pre89 valves in closed position that why i modify one
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There are Two ways to do it,
First way can be done at any time by simply fitting a 4/5mm bearing inside the allen head bolt shown here http://www.hallbergs.net/kx500/images/picture11.jpg
Second way only can be done with the topend removed {the way i do it}
This way i put the kipps valves on differant grove on the valve rod/ but modify the stop on rod
This way has the advantage It will keep the kipps rod in original position /angle
The black ARROW point to the way i modify the stop with a 5mm width nut
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg119/cr500-af/kx500%2088%20cases/SAM_0990_zpspyftl6il.jpg) thats a cool mod 8-)
valves in closed position
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg119/cr500-af/SAM_0951_zpselt8eici.jpg)
i later modified this valve for better flow but this is correct position for stock valve
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg119/cr500-af/SAM_0962_zpsbnvgbgtk.jpg)
Not great flow from pre89 valves in closed position that why i modify one