KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX250 / KX125 => Topic started by: needsatopend on August 05, 2015, 05:11:56 PM
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I just picked up an '01 KX250 L3 that wasn't running. Previous owner said it just needs a top end, but I got the top end off today and found a considerable amount of up-and-down play in the lower con rod bearing. Also seized up pretty bad, so yep it's toast. It also smashed some bottom off the piston when it slammed down after the bearing went, I think.
So what is the method to take in KX-riders experience? Should I have the crank rebuilt and a new con rod installed. OR just go with a whole new bottom end kit like the one offered by Hotrods or Wiseco?
Thanks
(http://i.imgur.com/SJM0suv.jpg)
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I send all mine off to be rebuilt and I use a Wossner rod kit whenever possible.
And I know they make one for your bike as I checked for someone else earlier today 8-)
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I put a hotrods crank in my 2000. It looked like a good quality crank to me. Id wager that as long as u use proper install tools and procedures itd be fine. I think a lot of people run into trouble from inproper install more than anything. Ive revved the mortal dogs**t out of mine and its doing fine
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I send all mine off to be rebuilt and I use a Wossner rod kit whenever possible.
And I know they make one for your bike as I checked for someone else earlier today 8-)
How does the price compare to buying a pre-assembled crank? Do you send yours to Pinsonnault to get rebuilt?
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All my personal stuff goes to Todd but I always get mine balanced so I'll have to get the cost without balancing.
These are retail prices.
If you score a discount on eBay or have a buddy who set's you up, so much the better.
But for the sake of the average guy comparison we will use Retail.
92-01 kx250
Hot Rods 289.95 includes main bearings and seals (Retail)
Wossner rod kit 109.95 (Retail)
Pro X bearing and seal kit 49.95 (Comes with factory Koyo bearings and OEM seals)
18.00 for USPS Priority shipping and about 400 in insurance. (This gets the crank to Todd)
80.00 for the rebuild and approx 20.00 for return shipping in the USA.
Total $277.90
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USPS shipping? Ouch... :wink:
I own a The UPS Store franchise.
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I wondered if you would catch that :lol:
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Well played sir. :-D
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OEM or Wossner...period...anything else wont last nearly as long.
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First, I am not trashing a Hot Rods or Wiseco cranks.
I have customers who want them and I sell them.
Retail wise it's about the same...
Now, you might be able to get a deal on a Hot Rods or Wiseco but you might also be able to get a little break on a Wossner or OEM rod kit.
However, I don't care if it costs me more for a Wossner or OEM.
I need reliability and longevity.
Take a Hot Rods or Wiseco, put them into a set of V-blocks and measure the run out with a quality indicator.
Do the same with a Pinsonnault Racing rebuilt crank.
I know which will go in my own bike...
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Hot Rods suck, I'm not afraid to say it....I know too many guys that get maybe 6 races out of one if they're lucky, in 80's and 250's...garbage.
My Kawie dealer wont even get them for customers if they ask anymore, because they last such a short time. Customers are trying to get their money back by saying they got defective parts...and trying to blame the dealers mechanics for installing them incorrectly and getting money back that way.
I haven't heard much positive on the Wiseco's either, but no where near as bad as Hot Rods.
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All my personal stuff goes to Todd but I always get mine balanced so I'll have to get the cost without balancing.
These are retail prices.
If you score a discount on eBay or have a buddy who set's you up, so much the better.
But for the sake of the average guy comparison we will use Retail.
92-01 kx250
Hot Rods 289.95 includes main bearings and seals (Retail)
Wossner rod kit 109.95 (Retail)
Pro X bearing and seal kit 49.95 (Comes with factory Koyo bearings and OEM seals)
18.00 for USPS Priority shipping and about 400 in insurance. (This gets the crank to Todd)
80.00 for the rebuild and approx 20.00 for return shipping in the USA.
Total $277.90
Thank you for putting that together. I think most people go with Hot Rods or Wiseco because they are convenient, and they are unaware of any other options. It's nice to know that using quality parts doesn't necessarily cost more.
Is there an address for Pinsonnault under there section on this site, or do they have a website?
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Yep...
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,10031.0.html (http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,10031.0.html)
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Thanks guys did I mention the entire KIPS were completely seized with spooge??
The flapper valve still sorta moved in and out but the pinion gears off the main governer rod had to be pulled with vice grips..
(http://i.imgur.com/x6IhAw6.jpg)
(http://www.imgur.com/Df98hBV.jpg)
After going over with a pressure washer, I can actually reference the different parts mentioned in the manual..
(http://i.imgur.com/rYeZD4H.jpg)
Good thing I am already familiar Kawasaki powervalve system as I already ride a '90 KDX200 but the flapper valve mechanism is new for me
KIPS subvalves and flappers, rods and other bits all cleaned up...Gonna send the jug off to a parts cleaner because I won't be able to get in the holes to clean them properly..
(http://i.imgur.com/weLRdN5.jpg?2)
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Sounds like you are on top of rebuilding the KIPS, but this might be helpful. I found this video on YouTube that details how to put the KIPS back together on a 2002 KX 250. I think it would be a pretty good reference for your rebuild.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkPU6V-cIxE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkPU6V-cIxE)
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helpful....will report back with updates on low end situation
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Youre going to laugh at how easy the kips is to assemble once you figure it out. Such an ingenious design.
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Prety sure I just got it memorized after skimming through tutorial video hah
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So what are the throttle position sensor and fuel cut valve all about on this bike.
Does the TPS work like a spark advance for the CDI or something? And the fuel cut valve controls the powerjet? Or do they both work do control the power jet?
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Motor out, most of the stuff removed except clutch hub and basket, gear shift mechanism and various gears..I'll do it tomorrow I need a 29mm socket and an imapact
In the mean time i just clean all the gunk and liquid gasket stuff the previous owner slabbed all over it...
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii244/suspended_discipline/IMAG1857_zps7epof5nk.jpg)
ck sketches of some tools my brother can whip on the floor at Goodyear
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii244/suspended_discipline/IMAG1858_zpsqmeuaquq.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii244/suspended_discipline/IMAG1862_zps7wkhajiz.jpg)
looks like the crank flung a needle bearing and put a sizable hole in the case when it exploded :doh: Something to add to the expenses list
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii244/suspended_discipline/IMAG1864_zps8hormxou.jpg)
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I am having trouble finding a Hot Rods ROD KIT for an '01....multiple outlets, eBay and such selling them as '78-'07 or '78-'05 with Hot Rods part #8108, however Hots Rods website has that kit ss 2002 - 2007 Kawasaki KX 250.
arrg
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Because they were recalled from blowing up...
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thanks....Ok so how about ProX stuff?...they carry almost everything, bearings, seals, rods, cranks, pistons....
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The 02 rod was the same as the 99-01. There was no updates to the rod listed in anything ive seen.
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The 02 rod was the same as the 99-01. There was no updates to the rod listed in anything ive seen.
01 & earlier, big end width 20mm, small end width 22mm
02 big end width 22mm, small end 20mm
DoldGuy
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thanks....Ok so how about ProX stuff?...they carry almost everything, bearings, seals, rods, cranks, pistons....
forget about ProX, Wiseco, and Hot Rods....
go with Wossner...
http://www.wossnerpistons.com/products/product-details/id/WOS-P2022/name/wossner-connecting-rod-kawasaki-kx-250
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pro-x sells good bearings and seals. Would not buy any rod/piston from them, all wossner, all the time. I have pictures if you need to get a better idea why not to run a pro-x piston.
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thanks....Ok so how about ProX stuff?...they carry almost everything, bearings, seals, rods, cranks, pistons....
forget about ProX, Wiseco, and Hot Rods....
go with Wossner...
http://www.wossnerpistons.com/products/product-details/id/WOS-P2022/name/wossner-connecting-rod-kawasaki-kx-250
and might as well do the top end Wossner as well...just determine which size you'll need...
http://www.wossnerpistons.com/products/product-details/id/WOS-8026DA/name/wossner-piston-kawasaki-kx250-66-4-mm-bore
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Right through
(http://i.imgur.com/VX8K6J6.jpg)
Roasted main bearings...is it normal for them to look that s**tty? :shock:
(http://i.imgur.com/OjQIkXa.jpg)
Kinda hard to see but there's a huge scrape starting in the bottom of the case where it appears something got jammed under the webs and dragged it around and around
(http://i.imgur.com/NjKKrMv.jpg)
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The 02 rod was the same as the 99-01. There was no updates to the rod listed in anything ive seen.
01 & earlier, big end width 20mm, small end width 22mm
02 big end width 22mm, small end 20mm
DoldGuy
Wow! Sorry for the wrong info! Kawie never highlighted that fact in their literature . Weird.
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I just went through the same exact thing. New OEM crank and all new OEM bearings. Seal & gasket kit from ebay, and new top end. Cost me $200 in labor from a buddy and about $500-$600 in parts.
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Pro-X Rod kit, Namura top end kit(piston, rings, gaskets, exhaust o-rings, etc), All Balls main bearing and seal kit. Ordered the stuff yesterday.
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Everyone will regale you with tales of how bad Namura pistons are, but as long as your cylinder is in spec the namura pistons are very good in my experience. One thing I do is take a piece of 1000-2000 grit sandpaper and smooth any rough edges around the skirt, intake window, and side pockets where the pin slides in. I do that on any piston I use to keep stress fractures from forming. May not make a difference but I do it anyway.
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Wouldn't have been my choice, personally I would have gone wiseco forged. My brother has decided he wants to keep the bike and sell his 4 stroke honda. So he goes by his trusty go-to mechanic's advice. Only thing I told him about cast pistons is they normally come in a A, B, C option that are bumped 1 or 2 hundredths of a mm for worn cylinders. Well he placed an order for the standard bore 66.35 without giving it much thought, oh well hopefully it wont grenade on him
And here is the bike without those terrible graphics! much better
(http://i.imgur.com/5NoAxW3.jpg)
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I used the c piston in mine. It should be fine Id imagine. Looks good!
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pro-x sells good bearings and seals. Would not buy any rod/piston from them, all wossner, all the time. I have pictures if you need to get a better idea why not to run a pro-x piston.
Last I knew ProX was made by ART who makes OEM pistons.
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Everyone will regale you with tales of how bad Namura pistons are, but as long as your cylinder is in spec the namura pistons are very good in my experience. One thing I do is take a piece of 1000-2000 grit sandpaper and smooth any rough edges around the skirt, intake window, and side pockets where the pin slides in. I do that on any piston I use to keep stress fractures from forming. May not make a difference but I do it anyway.
Used many Namura "junk" pistons without one issue.
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I bought a kx250 01 off a guy , only wanted the frame etc , any way he was running it for so long with the big end worn the piston was kissing the head , had massive play , so the oem rod is a pretty strong unit to take that abuse . On another note them motors respond well to porting , there a fair bit you can do to them.
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On another note them motors respond well to porting , there a fair bit you can do to them.
+1
all I did was clean up the casting flaws on my '00...it has more low and mid range than my brand new '04 did.
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Ok here's where I'm at.
Got the crank back balanced with pro-x rod kit installed, and installed with new main bearings and seals.
Also the crack welded...
(http://i.imgur.com/rx6Rh6q.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GmoPVyA.jpg?1)
Installed the transmission tonight. Going to make a thread adapter for the case puller to install the left case half
(http://i.imgur.com/XUh1FgM.jpg)
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All together now
(http://i.imgur.com/wZv7Zsy.jpg)
Here is the home made 2 in 1 case splitter / left case installer
Center threaded rod has a rounded end at one end for a case splitter, and a thread adapter at the other end to grab the crank at the flywheel side
(http://i.imgur.com/nzrb87n.jpg)
Clutch basket holder tool
(http://i.imgur.com/RcifJg2.jpg)
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All done :D
(http://imgur.com/QzT1DXv.jpg)
Beside the DX
(http://i.imgur.com/j6UZT6S.jpg)
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Before I got my 2000, I thought kx's were ugly as hell (Im a suzuki RM fan); but with a set of green side panels the L models are very nice looking bikes. White is ok as well tho. You did a good job!
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One thing I do is take a piece of 1000-2000 grit sandpaper and smooth any rough edges around the skirt, intake window, and side pockets where the pin slides in. I do that on any piston I use to keep stress fractures from forming.
I also do it to keep the sharp edges from scraping the oil off the cylinder walls during break in.
It may be unnecessary but I feel better doing it.