KX Riders

General => Introductions => Topic started by: b4himdude on June 06, 2015, 07:51:48 PM

Title: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 06, 2015, 07:51:48 PM

10 years  ago i blew up my 95 kx500. stuck the rod straight through where the barrel sits on the bottom halves. right below the exhaust hole. so i had  it sitting in storage up until last summer when i found a 1993 kx500 that was for sale at the right price. well it ran well but had ben slightly neglected on the maintenance side. so after using all the interchangeable parts that the 95 i have offered i decided that this year i would rebuild thye 93 and put together another engine for a spare. actually have one running and another to replace it yearly,then rebuild the exchanged for next year and so on. well when i got the 93 open for the first time the exhaust ports for the kips system were so carbon covered the idler gears teeth had been almost totally worn off. pretty sure the thing was inoperable and stick in one position due to the situation. so i bought the parts that i didnt already have from the 95 to replace and rebuild. . as i mentioned the thing ran super with tyhe carbon build up even. so now i have the new barrel and sleeve installed on the 93 bottom end with a new crank rod piston gaskets and everything new that was necessary. but the problem it has even after tearing it down again and inspecting, reassembling and torquing it all down is the low speed to midrange performance is sluggish until i get up in the high rev side of things. i know its got to be the kips system is slightly off not opening at the correct time or whatever but as the clymer book illustrated i aligned it. so any help or insight of anyone who can offer some  on this would be appreciated. ive checked the movement of the assembly and it moves easily by hand prior to assembly of the clutch cover and centrifugal spring  from the crankshaft. i just must have something slightly off and could use a had.  ..please and thank you anybody...

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 06, 2015, 10:36:06 PM

Quote from: b4himdude on June 06, 2015, 07:51:48 PM

the low speed to midrange performance is sluggish until i get up in the high rev side of things. i know its got to be the kips system is slightly off not opening at the correct time

the KIPS don't fully operate until you're in the upper revs, you can take the pipe off and look up into the exhaust port and see if the KIPS are in the correct "closed" position, and you can pull the rod out while looking up in there too to see if they're opening fully and evenly too ...if you believe you have everything aligned and working correctly as the manual says...I would look elsewhere.
You mentioned the "new barrel and sleeve"...does this mean you had a steel sleeve installed in the cylinder?...if so, were the intake and exhaust ports matched and cleaned up?
How is your jetting?...if you can, find out what your current jetting is and post it here....if there was that much carbon build-up, it may be jetted too much on the rich side.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 06, 2015, 11:00:28 PM

not sure how much searching you've done on the site...but there's tons of info on KIPS, and getting them set/tuned correctly...

here's a good thread....

http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,8754.0.html

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 07, 2015, 06:36:46 AM

you may be right as far as the look elsewhere deal. but the only place left for me to look is the spark plug? the carburetor is ok because as i mentioned i had another (95)kx500 so i always have the option to throw the other carb on to see if that makes the difference. and as far as the sleeve and ports lining up. i bought a brand spanking new never been used cylinder and oem sleeve due to needing one because the 95 stuck the rod through the exhaust side of the case and scarred the old one up pretty bad. so rather than just wait for the 93's to blow up from neglect i chose to use the bottom end from the 93with new crankshaft new bearings bushings   rod washers piston.... you get it everything responsible for the up and down from the combustion  is new . plus i bought a new barrel oem sleeved .cleaned the exhaust valves, guides idler gear and operating rod from the damaged 95 barrel to put in the new barrel. oh plus the main exhaust valve as well. so everything from the crank to the tdc of the piston is new. head was fine so thats not new.  i hate to think that theres something im overlooking. i cleaned the d**n reed valves even. a wet plug might cause this performance issue maybe huh? i would think a fouled plug wouldnt work and a wet one would dry but maybe i went heavy on the two stroke oil and i probably should just filter that crap in with another  fresh 32 :1 mix. i know if theres too much oil it causes the bike to run hot. i dont know. but anyway  to finish off my ramblings i went ahead and bought a crankcase set and all the fixings for it so that when the 93 barrel and sleeve that came out(which was hiding a hairline fracture horizontally on an exhaust port and across the sleeve . as well had a hairline fracture above the wrist pin on the clutch side of the piston. in other words i caught a disaster waiting to happen .... notorious for blowing their own ports and sleeves to pieces. why is that? i guess the racers toy store is going to be getting a couple barrels to repair and sleeve for me sooner or later. its nice to have all these spare parts but if theyd work better together.... ill check that link and do some more homework. maybe its as easy as just too rich on the oil. thank you for  the reply.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 07, 2015, 07:15:16 AM

I'd still like to know what your current jetting is...just because the carb came off another good running 500 doesn't mean very much, as every bike acts a little differently.

mostly what pilot and needle are you running...and what clip position on the needle.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: KXDINO on June 07, 2015, 07:27:54 AM

What thickness is your head gasket and what position is your timing on , another thing to look at is lever that pulls the kips rod out is tighten in the correct position also?

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: sandblaster on June 07, 2015, 07:30:02 AM

Just curious, did you check the ohmn specs of the electrical?

http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=163 (http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=163)

Out of spec electronics can do all sorts of funny things..
Did you leak down test the engine? Not a compression test, but a leak down?
If you remove the seat, start the bike, put your hand down by the air filter, and rev the engine... do you feel air blowing back through the filter?

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 07, 2015, 04:30:31 PM

the answers to some of the questions asked  i will answer ... the main jet is stock 168 the pilot jet is stock 60  the jet needle is stock n82m and its on the second or fourth position. when i got the bike i went up about 2000 feet in elevation. so whichever way it was to do whatever the book said for leaner or richer in accordance to elevation is where i went. for some reason i think i did whatever it took to lean the fuel and richen the air . whichever way that was. t think. i dont remember .id have to go look which would be pretty easy now that i have the barrel off and the exhaust valves out again. i changed all the electrical today other than the stator. so as far as ohms ,no testing did i do but changing the ic igniter and the coil didnt change anything. i also went and got a fresh new 32:1 premix of 91 octane. plus i put in a new b8eg or was it es. i have to check the jet needle clip so ill look at that to.yep b8eg and the jet needle clip is on the second from the top. so yep i leaned her a notch.the stator plate is set just slightly on the advanced side of center. not even half way to the advanced notch line. maybe an 8th off of standard. the head gasket is a tusk oem head gasket i dont have a micrometer handy. because i have another new one sitting in the shipping cardboard still for next time.  but i got a little break on time on her today. it was still kinda chokey in the low to low mid rev range . but when she cleared her throat and really got a lung full for me to sprint through the gears i took full advantage of it. i love how fast you can get through the gears and be hitting fast in a matter of no time. . i probably almost have just shy of two hours on the break in now. not a favorable kind of break in. been apart 3 times now sense the initial assembly. god i just want to figure this s**te out.i appreciate all of everyones curiosity. a little more to the why side you ask all these questions might keep me on the same page a little quicker. im not ruling out anything but when you double up; on all parts stock and rebuild oem,. you would expect it all to be in tune. gotta check that kips thread still. and somebody mentioned putting the lever that pulls the exhaust valve rod "tightened in the correct position??" thats something i never knew had a correct position. just even with the grooved piece on the end of the rod all the way in and tight was what i thought was necessary....plus when the exhaust valves are closed to the port that means the solid backside of the valves are facing the exhaust hole blocking the [port completely off. and open means the slotted side faces the hole and is even ??? is that correct.?

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: sandblaster on June 07, 2015, 05:55:10 PM

Your pilot is too rich.
At 0-1000ft 55 is a good starting point.
I suspect that at 2000 ft you'll probably need to go to a 52 depending on the air temp.
You'll know if your close if your idling good with the air screw at 1.5 turns out.

Set your needle on the mid or 3rd position to start with.
You may need to go to the 2nd position depending on elevation and temps.

(http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu165/oemcycle/KX500AF%20PROJECT/NEEDLE.jpg)

You should notice a immediate improvement.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 07, 2015, 08:25:07 PM

I knew your jetting was way rich!
60 pilot is way too rich...there's a big part of your excessive carbon build-up cause...drop it at least 2 sizes to a 55 to start, and you'll see big improvements!...but I'm thinkin a 52 pilot will be the one you want...especially if you do any trail riding or slow speeds.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: dave916 on June 07, 2015, 10:15:34 PM

To check your pilot
 warm the motor to operating temp.
 Then set the idle {TOP LEFT SIDE OF CARB} so it so it idleing slightly higher than normal
Then turn the air screw{bottom rear left side carb} all the way in  until it bottoms out
Then screw out 1/4 turn at the time, allow 15 seconds between each 1/4 turn for the engine to catch up
Back out  until engine idles at highest rpms
This should be between 1 to 2 turn out
IF it revs highest before 1 turn /pilot lean
If it revs highest after 2 turn / pilot rich
after fitting the correct pilot reset your idle to perfered tickover

s**tty low speed running  can be down to many issues  /air leaks would be top of my list on kx ,case or crank seals,  reeds electrics etc,
No point in chasing jetting issues if everthing else in the motor is not perfect


KIPPS will usually give issue at high rev at it preset it low rev position
To check the kipps timing remove exhuast, disconected kipps rod from governer {tiny circlip}
Look up the exhaust port and pull the kipps rod out/ in this position both kipps valves cutouts will be lined up perfect with the exhauts subports
as u push back in the the rod u shoud see the exhaust subport being blocked, {the may overclose slightly , kawaski decompressor/ search overclosing valve 3.3.2
 http://www.hallbergs.net/kx500/

DONT move the kipp governer by hand on clutch  cover as the internal needle bearing can fall apart

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 08, 2015, 01:32:57 AM

just so you know im at 5200 feet. elevation.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: sandblaster on June 08, 2015, 03:08:23 AM

Yep, your crazy rich for 5000 ft.
You might want to read this:

http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=550 (http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=550)

It generally applies to most two strokes but it was wrote specific to the K5

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 08, 2015, 08:05:33 AM

Quote from: b4himdude on June 08, 2015, 01:32:57 AM

just so you know im at 5200 feet. elevation.

just curious, how does it start?...one or two kicks, or many kicks to get it fired off?...and how does it idle?.
sounds like you've covered most everything else except the jetting.
change your low speed jetting.
99.9% of the time when someone says their bike is running s**tty/sluggish at low speeds, it's because the pilot is too big for their conditions, and/or the needle clip is in the improper position, and usually a different needle is required for fine tuning....and since you said you've gone up another 2000ft in elevation after you got it...well you know where I'm going with that.  
it wouldn't hurt to do a leak down test like Blaster mentioned, since you've had it apart and back together...but I'm thinkin you'll find your problem in the carb.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 08, 2015, 02:41:10 PM

ok i looked at the link for jetting and i took the slow jet from 60 to 58 . judging from the conditions of the high end rev being spot on and the table in that very informative jetting guide  i was linked up with  showing my jet needle clip should be exactly where i have it for temperatures as we are coming into. i may want to lean out the slow jet a bit more . but  a 58 is definitely in the range for my elevation. maybe a bit warmer and then a leaner by another couple might be in order. but i had a 58 laying around so a 58 is no cost and no trip down to 5th gear bike shop at the other end of town. plus its monday... no bike shops are ever open monday...are they? as i was asked how the bike starts/ idles / i forget what else .oh a leak down test. once i get it back together ill do that post haste. but for now ..heres how the other two questions get answered. starting - im not going to say ALWAYS but 99% of the time when i get the kick starter all the way to the top (a full good hard kick).   since i rebuilt it other than when i tested it in the other frame mounted to a board which doesnt really count have  i had to kick it more than one time to fire it up. yesterday i  kicked it off balance and didnt get the full kick at it on the first try and had to give it a second kick. so first kick choke on but off immediately after it goes. idling.. when its cold it idles till warm when its warm it idles but the cap cable adjuster cant go too much further before it runs out. but i can get a high idle if i adjust it that way. i dont like a high idle.  .but without the cap adjuster the idle air mixture screw doesnt seem to do anything too much one way or another.  . but lets see after the slow jet i just put in does its job.maybe thatll solve the issue or show promise in the right direction. at least i was too rich. thats the better side at least. well better for not welding the rod to the shaft. i  wish i had a picture of how the exhaust rods look in the barrel port from a view from the pipes hole when  the bike is off and how the operating rod end is  in conjunction with the pull lever thats held on by that 10 mm nut to the shaft that sticks out from the clutch cover. just so i can be 100% certain that i have the clue i know what im doing on that. until i know something by doing it myself and getting the result desired......then i know nothing about it and  i dislike not feeling confident about something. i think utube should have a simple  video on that. they have one but somebody is actuating the rod with a wrench and you can barely seen the main exhaust valve. that ois the biggest waste of video for the effort put into it. the main valve can only go in ONE way. its the two rod style ones that have marks to line up to another make and a right and a left side valve that mean everything to  the system . just a picture with a bike off ,a pipe off ,a lever position with the plastic cover and rubber boot off so a person can see how far the rod is out and the lever is angled ,and the other picture of the right side valve position and left side position with the same bike off and not  touched  that way i know where to set it all. 3 pics maybe. i just dont know for sure on that. seems like theres only one way it can go. but somebody said something about the lever position and then tighten .. which leads me to believe there is some adjusting that can be done after assembly. but will also lose some of its full open or closed end . one way or the other. anyway oiu have to go guess at this thing one more time. thats where im headed now to do it the same dang way ive done twice before. how the book te;lls me. you know oits kind of questionable on that clymer447-3 book when it says line the marks on the exhaust shaft gears to the marks on the operating rod and then illustrates both marks off just slightly. wtf is that?????   believe  what i read but refer to figure 100 on page 1439 to see the picture and confuse myself. high performance must be exact. who edit those books. somebody needs to see if they can catch a bullet then illustrate it for me.
thanx guys. dont give up on me yet.  from what ive read that youve shared  i am very appreciative. how can i post a pic of my bike. you may be pleasantly surprised on how much ive done to my stock thumper...

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: sandblaster on June 08, 2015, 02:47:34 PM

That jetting chart is very conservative.
I run 52-55 depending on temps at 0-1000 ft.
At 4000 ft I run 52 and my needle at the second position.
I have ran this in my supermoto and my sand bike with no issues...
I think you need to lean your pilot a bit more but it is always safe to go a little at a time...

And yes... I'm open on Monday  :-D

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 08, 2015, 06:01:49 PM

MAYBE NOT SO MUCH MUCH ON WHAT IVE DONE TO MY STOCK THUMPER. MOSTLY ON HOW ITS BEEN TREATED SINCE I BOUGHT IT JUST UNDER A YEAR AGO.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 08, 2015, 06:22:08 PM

MAYBE NOT SO MUCH MUCH ON WHAT IVE DONE TO MY STOCK kx5oo but MOSTLY ON HOW ITS BEEN TREATED SINCE I BOUGHT IT JUST UNDER A YEAR AGO. so now i have a pilot jet 2points leaner and a wealth of information from this forum on how to properly jet the carb so that  its tuned for any situation. that info right there in itself is\ more info than i would have found at any 1 place. and for free even. thanks guys. i also did the thought that crossed my mind by reading the one small reply to my post that i only saw one time. that reply was. "what about the positioning of the lever between the exhaust advancer portion of the kips system and the rod and valves in the barrel's exhaust side that that piulls and pushes.?" i did one thing with a little more attention this time as far as that kips is concerned. i made certain that the position of the rod was on full closed was extending to where the valves inside showed full closed....then when i connected the lever to the connector on the end of the toothed rod id held it so that the valves didnt inadvertently change position when i connected them up to the lever. i never even payed attention to that part the last few times i put ity together., so now with the leaner pilot jet and that ,if my green machine works as it was intended to i still wont know which it was. thats the thing about all the info in a big blast. well i bet it will kick on the first kick tomorrow after work... i need to go to bed . it took 2 1/2 hrs to do the reassemble part from the looks of it. as long as i didnt miss tightening something. thanks you all.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 08, 2015, 06:30:51 PM

oh ya i kinda spaced of a question that i wonder if anybody knows the answer to .   that crankcase ,the one that came on the 93 i have has the most peculiar modification to it ive ever seen. it has a carbon fiber kawasaki  flywheel cover that has an eagle in the center  with a g around the eagle. plus the bolt patern is the exact same as a normal stock flywheel cover other than the two near the shift lever. they required somebody to put a piece of the material these cases are made of with matching bolt holes for the flywheel cover to attach to on the case. therefor making the space larger in the flywheel enclosure for no other reason than to bolt on the cover. whats the point. this is definitely aftermarket without any real reason . weirdest modification ive ever seen.carbon fiber is good. but why not buy one that fits the case. not make the case fit the cover... good night to ya all.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 08, 2015, 09:17:06 PM

you're welcome :wink:
just keep in mind, those jetting charts are just base lines...the best jetting chart is, wide open throttle chops, and reading your spark plug's color, and actually riding it. The plug is an open book, and will tell you exactly what the motor wants.
I haven't used a jetting chart in several years, as I find I never end up anywhere near close to what they suggest, and they're not good for fine tuning.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 09, 2015, 11:44:43 AM

"one stroke for producing power and three for wearing the engine out."  i love that. thats awesome.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 09, 2015, 12:48:11 PM

pretty cool/.... went down to the bike shop and they just gave me the 55 pilot for notta. luckily i brought along the one i took out last night.there are two different styles of thread placements on the pilot jets. now time to go see.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 11, 2015, 03:23:23 PM

 alright guys i put the 55 pilot in the carb and guess how right you are. im sure you already expected that. no anyway i tried the 58 pilot and it WAS still seemingly needing to quit hacking up phlegm. so now the 55 still seems as though she might be getting over the congestion pretty well but not quite. theres still a bit of a itchy throat (so to speak) so my question is if i have the 1 1/2 turns out on the air screw and it idles super once warmed up should i even tinker with the adjustments or go one leaner on the pilot.or should i just deal  with the slight congestion and watch the condition of the plug for a few rides? and if leaner by one is the decision then what is one leaner from a 55? id  first guess a 54 but i dont know the numbering system and how they number em.a 53?  anyway you guys are great. i have some good stories to add to the forums when i have a chance to find em. started at 8 yrs old on a 1980 rm60. talk later

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 11, 2015, 08:18:40 PM

the next Pilot down is a 52...I had a feeling you would probably end up at a 52, so yes, pull the 55, and try a 52.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 12, 2015, 01:12:45 AM

thanks a lot i will do that. appreciate all of your help.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 14, 2015, 12:58:34 PM

alright i went with the 52 pilot and i dont think its better.  is there a possibility that maybe the main jet might be too rich? ive cleaned the heck out of the carb. changed the throttle cable. i have noticed that it seems like when i go passed half throttle is when it chokes up. it does finally cough it out but its not right on the pipe like it should be. it kinda gurgles itself to full power. as long as i stay on it  i can keep it from doing it . but like if i keep the throttle mellow for a few seconds it takes that time to clear out again. whats a size down from a 168 main? oh ya i also measured my float height. i dont have one of those bowl adapters but it looked like it was right as far as the measurement goes the book specifies. . i have about a half float bowl full when i remove it. no spills. so im thinking its probably not that. but i dont know. i hate to keep bothering you all but ,you've got me this far so i hope to stick to where the knowledge is and get this thing dialed in..... thank you.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 14, 2015, 01:07:24 PM

next size down on the main is a 165, then 162...I wouldn't go any lower than 162.
what position is the needle clip currently in?

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 14, 2015, 01:12:20 PM

right now its in the center position. but prior to my ride about a half hour ago i moved it from the second to there thinking  maybe it would tell me something. it seemed to be worse than it was in the second position. so richer isnt the answer anywhere its looking like. the plug is being left a little damp as well. but i have to ride slow from about a block and a half from my house to the dirt.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 14, 2015, 01:17:04 PM

is a br8es hotter or cooler than an eg? plus i have a br8egv whas that?

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 14, 2015, 01:19:01 PM

there's a good chance you're probably gonna need to find a leaner needle, which I mentioned earlier for fine tuning...like an N82P or an N82T

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 14, 2015, 01:22:13 PM

Quote from: b4himdude on June 14, 2015, 01:17:04 PM

is a br8es hotter or cooler than an eg? plus i have a br8egv whas that?

an 8 is hotter than a 9...and an 8 is colder than a 7....the lower the number the hotter the plug, and the higher the number the colder the plug.
I wouldn't run any lower than an 8.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 14, 2015, 01:29:55 PM

you can try the clip in the top position temporarily, and I bet it'll run nice and clean....I generally don't like to max out like that...I prefer to find a needle where I can be right about the 2nd from the top.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 14, 2015, 03:23:29 PM

so just check the bike shop huh? or is this going to be a challenge?

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 14, 2015, 03:25:31 PM

yep anything to get the phlegm out of her throat.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 14, 2015, 09:54:24 PM

Quote from: b4himdude on June 14, 2015, 03:23:29 PM

so just check the bike shop huh? or is this going to be a challenge?

it won't be that hard...Rocky Mountain has an N82P listed...

and these  guys have a good selection as well...it's best to call them and explain what your situation is, tell them what your current needle is(the stock N82M), and that you want one that's 4 or 5 steps leaner, and they'll be helpful in getting you a needle/needles that will work. 

http://www.pjmotorsports.com/keihin-jet-needles.html

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 16, 2015, 02:26:24 PM

excellent. again....thanks...

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 16, 2015, 03:44:56 PM

(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt181/Coby_Hosford/bike/100_1365_zpsvq4l9f2o.jpg) here is where we startedwith the bike almost a year ago(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt181/Coby_Hosford/bike/100_1652_zps6dmahlzb.jpg[img]http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt181/Coby_Hosford/bike/100_1598%20-%20Copy_zpstuf2zf1g.jpg)[/img]and here is where we arehttp://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt181/Coby_Hosford/bike/100_1649_zpsatdagcuh.jpg.a big thank you to kx riders forums.and an extra big thank you to Foxx4Beaver.after coming to my wits end after rebuilding my 500 basically from the bottom up on a low end rev slouch i found this site. i got a positive response from my inatial thoughts on what i had incorrect on my bike. i thought that i had reassembled the kips system incorrectly and didnt know how to do it right. after taking into consideration all of the comments, i decided to tear apart the top end again to try something one more time on the valve assembly. found there was nothing  to do differently than i had already. but then foxx4beavers carburetor tuning comments caught my attention. i went and leaned the pilot jet down a step and didnt really notice a big difference .so i went to the shop and got even a leaner pilot by 1 step. i then stared believing what i was being led into learning about at the same time. as foxx4beavers intial comments above stated the p[ilkot will be a 52-55 and io may need to go with a leaner jet needle. well today i tried out the beast with a 52 pilot with the needle as lean as could be clipped. and thank you for being patient with a carb newbie. she is running with no hiccups at all. so as foxx4beaver also stated above what he doesnt like to do as far as the clip goes on the jet needle. and what size i need and where to buy it. i love it here.my bikre loves me for loving it here too. thanks. thanks,thanks. now my 95 half of my present bike was purchased in coos bay oregon in 1998.brand new. only because the shop i went to didnt have a stator for the 1991 kx250 i was running around the florence dunes in vacation burnt up. the florence dunes was the first time i ever rode a 500. t never ever looked back.  so the front end is my 95 .if you look at the braking system, and the axle you will know. because a 93(which the rest of my bike is), other than the carburetor, mono shock, and rear brake assembly-from the 95) has a smaller axle shaft and i couldnt just swap rims over. i bought the 93 for $1400 last summer in boise. the other bottom end i built is a 1992 case with a new crankshaft and the 95's tranny and clutch. so theres my ride. its a kx 500 bastard child. am i allowed to say that? so0 my reaper is a resurrection from death. not a lot of cash but a lot of urgew to burn premix while going through tires and sprockets.  that shinko 505 hard terrain lasted about 3 months. any ideas where i can get a steel rear tire?

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 17, 2015, 09:32:44 AM

that's great news!...I knew we'd figure it out.
hopefully the N82P will be enough to get it running crisp/lean enough with the clip in the 2nd groove from the top...I'd really like to see you be able to find a N82T, but they're getting harder to come by. The "T" is what got mine running super clean/crisp with the clip in the 2nd from top.

that's good lookin bike!...I like that you've got the '95 shroud graphics on it.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 17, 2015, 04:30:02 PM

thank you . and its amazing how just changing the seat  the plastics and shroud graphics can make a bike look like a totally different bike to the untrained eye. i e-mailed support for the jet needle you suggested to me. i shared my situation with them and now i wait. . ill let you know ..but for the moment the stock needle is hanging in there. how long have you been riding and working on these bikes? is there a bio you have i  can read to learn about your history and feel i can give you the respect you deserve by knowing  a little bit ,not asking you to re answer stuff youve already written?

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 18, 2015, 08:50:35 AM

I've been riding for almost 39 years....raced for 22 years...now I just ride for the fun of riding.
I didn't start working on my own stuff until I was about 19...my dad owned a mechanic garage/gas station growing up, so he did most of my maintenance.

As far as "bio's" for you to read....just use the sites "search" option...there's just about everything you'll ever need to know about the 500 right on this site, and a lot on the 250's as well.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 18, 2015, 12:11:48 PM

cool cool. ya ive been on bikes since i was 8 when my dad got me an 1980 rm60. ill say one thing for that little bike. that little thing never ,EVER  gave me problem #1. out of all bikes ive had since,(im now 42) that little rm60 was the most mechanically sound machine ive ever ridden. i remember this spot that somebody had dug out with a backhoe or something and made like a half bowl about 10 ft high. by the time i outgtrew that little 2 stroke my friends and i were seeing how many of each other we could jump over from  the ramp we had groomed it into.  i dont dare jump the 500 like i did that little 60 34 years ago. i just dont have the desire to hit an airplane. ive pretty much worked in my bikes from about the time i was 18 orso when my dad thought i should be putting my money into other things . he was right ...but oh well. never have broken any bones on a bike. knocked myself out once ,got some nastry dirt rashes . even once when i had my 91 kx250 i failed to see a barbed wire fence gate wasnt open until the final seconds an d use the the full front brake,went over the bars and bounced under the bottom strand  to end up on the other side with my bike tangle in the fence. first thing i did was looked for cuts. i had oe of those little "HALF SQUARED" barbed wire cuts on the back of my flannel jacket. and that was all. no kidding. and once sprained both my ankles landing a jump,while i layed out in the desert waiting for my friend to show up and contact my parents. that one hurt. i got my boots cut off on  that one,spent a while on crutches. but anyway back to these jets. i looked at that site  from the link you shared and i managed to figure out one thing. even if i do manage to acurately cross number the jet needle i have right now.that wont be the one i want. so how can i know the # for the n82t without having one to go by?

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 18, 2015, 12:26:25 PM

Quote from: b4himdude on June 18, 2015, 12:11:48 PM

even if i do manage to acurately cross number the jet needle i have right now.that wont be the one i want. so how can i know the # for the n82t without having one to go by?

I would just call them, tell them your situation and what you're looking for....they actually had me mail them a needle once so they could accurately measure it, then I had them send me 2 different needles...one 5 steps leaner, and one 6 steps leaner than the one I mailed them.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 18, 2015, 12:44:05 PM

ahhhh. i see whym for sure . i think of looking for a needle in a haystack when i look at the page and think  how many i would have to buy. ill do what you suggest.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 18, 2015, 02:02:07 PM

so...check this out. i just for whatever reason decided to check what needle was in the other carb i have is (i havent used this carb because for some reason the choke port has been sealed off with some sort of flexible putty?)and the jet needle in that one is an n82r. that  pretty close huh? i should try that on center and drop  if not pleased or should i just try second clip position off the bat.? that is leaner than a (M) yet richer than a(S)?

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 18, 2015, 02:06:39 PM

sweet...I myself would go right for the 2nd from top to start, just be cautious with winding it out too heavy....and if it runs clean and crisp, do a wide open plug chop, and see how the plug looks.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 18, 2015, 04:36:27 PM

not bad not bad.i was already out giving her the run by the time you posted so i didnt do the plug chop. seemed to be a little better on the second clip position than the m did on the 1st position. a little more responsive. i really have the urge to try the first position. i guess at some point im going to have to say ok enuf is enuf and just be happy shes running strong again. . so between talking with you and  reading the informative post from blaster ive learned something about  this carburetor. thank both of you and everybody else that gave a minute to me with their thoughts. ill be reading post from time and posting some of my mown things if thats ok. love the smell of burning premix. mmmmmmmm 

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 19, 2015, 06:27:45 AM

I wouldn't try the top notch with the "R" until you get a chance to do some plug chops with it in the 2nd from top....no need to push the envelope that far yet.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 19, 2015, 09:24:39 AM

 

10-4 ill do a few before i even think about moving it.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 27, 2015, 01:08:05 PM

i really dont know what the deal with my bikes performance is. at first it was sluggish in the low to middle range revs but it would cough it up and get on it once i got to the higher revs. then i changed some jetting and found that i was too rich dropped 3 on the pilot and from a n82m needle to a n82r needle/. once again t seemed to have it all cleaned up but,ill be d**ned if the bitch isnt doing it again. i wonder if i havent got some packing wadded up in the tail end of my answer spark arrester. i might just run the stock silencer and see what happens ,because im flustered. float too low. doesnt make sense to be if the high rpms cleari it out. ,.AAAAARGH. douche the hell pout of the carb again until nothings left but shine on every square inch of it inside and out. s.o.b this is downer...... any other thoughts? :?

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: alward25 on June 27, 2015, 01:27:20 PM

r u sure your KIPS is actuating?

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 27, 2015, 01:27:29 PM

how sacked out are your reeds?

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 27, 2015, 01:39:26 PM

the kips better be activating ill have to look at that little 10mm nut again and make sure it hasnt loosened off. as far as reeds..sacked? they all look full on both (http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt181/Coby_Hosford/bike/100_1692_zpswhpbsqau.jpg)sides. i have another set i could try puting those in. they  both look pretty much the same condition

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 27, 2015, 01:41:29 PM

(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt181/Coby_Hosford/bike/100_1693_zpsjj3fzffq.jpg)

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 27, 2015, 01:52:20 PM

......and as far as the kips (i know it isnt the preferred method) but the nut is tight so i GENTLY used a pair of curved ind needle nose and moved the lever back and forth about 80% of the way back and forth ...all seemed smooth.i heard the valves rotating. didnt remove exhaust

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 27, 2015, 01:55:02 PM

a sacked out set of reeds can still "look" good and still sit flat.
try flipping them over, and see if it makes any difference.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 27, 2015, 02:23:26 PM

ill give it a shot thats easy enough

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 27, 2015, 02:34:31 PM

no guarantee's it'll work, but try it before spending any money.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 27, 2015, 02:40:11 PM

so i flipped em over now this is what it looks like. (http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt181/Coby_Hosford/bike/100_1695_zpsq09p2j44.jpg)            i dont know if you can see it or not but theres a little gap between   reeds and the cage now. it starts small and gets progressively larger as the reeds reach the end of the cage.Consistant though.not good?

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 27, 2015, 02:41:31 PM

man this is f'kn driving me nuts.ts probably just something stupid.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 27, 2015, 02:58:31 PM

put the reeds back to how they were.
I don't know what you're riding style is...but try riding it in a lower gear than you usual would, so it's more in the upper revs, and see how it runs and if it loads up still.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 27, 2015, 03:13:31 PM

sure  , so that way my arms will be worn out before it has a chance to load up. you know how taxing that thing is. i do a lot of hill climbing i need the ball when i hit the throttle. i go for no run at all at the biggest hill i can find. you know what i mean.itll climb anything as ling as the juice is there. climbing hills with congestion doesnt give the dominating feeling that bike should give. i will say if i clear it out ,then as long as i stay on it it doesnt load up. but id like to breathe every now and then. i know im running out of options .but somethings gotta give.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 27, 2015, 03:16:33 PM

is it mysteriously losing gearbox oil by any chance?

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 27, 2015, 03:28:53 PM

you know its strange you should ask that. the other day i had to add a little bit of gear oil. but i didnt see any leaks. so i put in about an eighth of a quart and wondered if i really had it that low before or what. good question. but its not leaking out the case. so you think maybe i have a poor seal between the cases in the combustion area causing the oil to foul the plug as it mixes with the premix. so split the cases and ensure a better seal between the halves in that area? maybe? actually i rebuilt the other case this one i just redid the top end and water pump seal because it was losing antifreeze into the transmission when i got it.looks like ill be doing a little wrenching and popping this top on the other bottom tomorrow and putting it on .then ill have to investigate this case. is that what your thinking?

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 27, 2015, 03:29:56 PM

clutch side crank seal.

this was why I said it wouldn't hurt to do a leak down test back in the beginning like sandblaster mentioned.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: sandblaster on June 27, 2015, 03:36:24 PM

I love splitting cases :-o

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 27, 2015, 03:48:01 PM

ya as long as you have the right tools. dont ask.

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: b4himdude on June 27, 2015, 04:06:02 PM

actually to be quite honest i have a 3 long arm puller that works great for splitting the cases. the pressing it together on the other hand..... its a slow process.  io remember you talking about a leak down test . quite frankly i dont mind doing the work as long as theres something to learn in the process. how do you perform a leak down test. i know the reason behind it but never done one so is there a preferred method?

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: sandblaster on June 27, 2015, 04:13:51 PM

(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=2005)

Title: Re: 1993 kx 500 kips valve tuning
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on June 27, 2015, 08:38:10 PM

once you replace the seals and get it back together...do some wide open plug chops, so we can see where you're at...you shouldn't have to make any more changes...it should run clean and crisp.