KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Aluminum Frame Conversion (AFC) => Topic started by: crooscroos on January 25, 2015, 06:17:07 PM
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My kx500af is complete it just needs a little tuning done. I used a 2003 kx500 motor with a 2006 kx250f frame. It vibrates like crazy so I am looking to put rubber washers on all of the engine mounts, along with Flexx handlebars and a steering stabilizer. The motor has a brand new Wiseco piston that has just been broke in. The bike is running a little rough so I may look at jetting options, any opinions out there? Also, I am struggling to keep the temperature down, I routed my radiators according to a diagram I found online but my bike is running around 235 degrees which seems a little high to me. I am losing a little coolant ever now and then as well. Any advice or questions are appreciated and encouraged!
Thanks, Cody
(http://i.imgur.com/ON8wt41.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/IF3DfMY.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/tMg56sP.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/5YOWoYl.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/3P3bCQF.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/S8xcM8T.jpg?1)
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Hey Cody.
Nice bike.
What is the altitude you ride at now?
What is your current jetting?
Is that water temp or head temp?
What are you doing to reach that temp and what was the air temp?
What coolant are you running?
Did you burp the head and the left radiator?
When you installed the head gasket which side did you put the small holes on?
Post a pic of the rad hose configuration you used.
It looks like the back of your bike is sitting a little low?
Have you checked the sag?
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I had a lot of luck with Best Dual Sport Bikes handle bar ends. They killed all the vibration on my 2004 KX 250.
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,14005.0.html
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sounds like its time for an overhaul to include a crank balance, Highway dirtbikes and Fasst Flex also have brass bar end inserts.
my only real words of advice, watch till the end
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBR0oNp9A7c
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Hey Cody.
Nice bike.
What is the altitude you ride at now?
What is your current jetting?
Is that water temp or head temp?
What are you doing to reach that temp and what was the air temp?
What coolant are you running?
Did you burp the head and the left radiator?
When you installed the head gasket which side did you put the small holes on?
Post a pic of the rad hose configuration you used.
It looks like the back of your bike is sitting a little low?
Have you checked the sag?
I'm planning on making it a sand bike so I'm riding at close to sea level.Main Jet 165-168
I'm running stock jetting at:
Pilot Jet 52
Needle STOCK
Clip Position 3RD
Air Screw 1.5 out
That temp reading came from the heat strip located just bellow the KPS on the cylinder. You can see in the 3rd picture.
I was riding in the sand when I reached that temp but I was not riding aggressively by any means. Air temp was 55 F.
I'm running a 50/50 mix of Napa coolant and water.
How do you burp the left radiator? I simply topped it off after 30 minutes of riding.
It was so long ago when I put the head gasket on, I don't remember where the little holes were. I thought it only fit correctly one way when I put it on.
I copied Benny Lindberg's radiator hose setup but I can't seem to find his write up at the moment.
I thought the back was sitting a little low as well. I haven't checked the sag but I plan to in the near future!
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From experience, which inserts do you guys feel are the most effective?
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52 pilot?
That's pretty lean for the coast at 55F.
You might want to go to a 55 or even a 58 depending on what you find with the 55.
And run the 168 main and do some wide open throttle chops and check it again.
I'd put the 55 in it and run it for a while then check the plug.
That could be the biggest part of your heating.
Neither of my K5's liked the 52 for the coast at lower air temps.
Look at the top of your left radiator.
There may or may not be a plug in the top.
If there is, take the plug out and make sure there is no air trapped there.
If there is no plug, don't sweat it.
You can put the head gasket on reversed and not even know it.... (Speaking from experience)...
It needs to be on the correct way to make sure you get even cooling in the cylinder.
To help lower the temps a bit more, run some Royal Purple Purple Ice at the recommended dilution ratio.
It's good for several degrees of cooling but it is no substitution for a correctly jetted bike.
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My left radiator is actually a modified right side radiator where the cap was sealed off. I'm actually looking for a better replacement for the left if you have any suggestions?
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Here is a rough diagram of my radiator routing. Should I take the cylinder off and check that gasket?
(http://i.imgur.com/2BV3zV9.jpg)
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I wouldn't remove the head just yet, (Ok I might...) But that's cause I'm nervous about such things :|
Get your jetting right and then see where you are at.
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""I'm running a 50/50 mix of Napa coolant and water.""
Try running distilled water {no coolant}
too much coolant could cause overheating {depending on type as is thicker and flow is slower}
Your crank seal {air leak} could be leaking if your crank is running rough
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After talking to the previous owner of the 500 I believe it has the stock jetting! Where should I go from the stock jetting? What bar inserts are your favorite Sandblaster?
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52 might be what came on the bike from the builder but it's not stock Kawasaki jetting.
Again I think you better look at a 55 or a 58 pilot, 168 Main, needle at the 3rd clip position and about 1.5 turns out on the air screw.
Bar inserts? I don't need no stinking bar inserts...
I don't even ride with gloves... :-D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hObZKApxAt4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hObZKApxAt4)
No idea.... Never rode with any inserts...
Balancing your crank makes a world of difference.
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Do you know anybody who can balance my crank well for a bargain price? I'm working on a college kid's budget ;)
PS. Only a true bad@ss rides a K5 without gloves :mrgreen:
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Contact GREENKAW24
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1767 (http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1767)
Todd has done both of mine....
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Alright, so I tore the bike apart for my overhaul. I was going to get a compression release valve put on and the crank balance /trued. Unfortunately my air boot ripped where it attached to the carb. I struggled to get the carb to reach the air boot and, once it was connected, it probably ripped over time because of the constant pulling a stretching. I may need to re drill holes or make a new mount to fit another air boot :/
If you guys know anybody with another cr250 air boot please let me know.
It gets worse, I broke the bike in on the sand and to my dismay there was now sand in the air boot. I pulled the head off hoping for the best and sure enough my cylinder had small scoring and the piston had hundreds of tiny scratches. Looks like I'm out another bore job and a piston if I cannot salvage some life out of what I have.
Also, I put my cylinder base gasket on incorrectly. I believe my cylinder head gasket was on correctly but how do you tell? My base gasket was leaking a little coolant and looked awkward so it was obvious I went wrong there.
I feel a little incompetent after all of these discoveries but it's all part of the learning process :|
I may have to postpone my initial plans to fix the more basic problems.
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What year boot was used from the CR?
If your not sure, what are the number embossed on the side of it?
KZ3R - FITS 98-99 CR250 17253-KZ3-J00
KZ3T - FITS 00 CR250 17253-KZ3-J20
KZ3V - FITS 01 CR250 17253-KZ3-J30
KZ3W - FITS 02 CR250 17253-KZ3-J40
Small holes on the head gasket go to the right as you are sitting on the bike, or water pump side.
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=809)
I've ruined a few good parts as well and probably will in the future so don't give up just yet :-)
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"If you are not making mistakes you are not doing much". EVERYONE makes mistakes. You got off fairly easy on this one and I would hazard a guess it will not happen again!
I look up most everything or keep notes so I do it right the first time as my memory has always been suspect. :-P
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I was using the KZ3T air boot from a 2000 CR250. I may need to look at a different air boot that comes off the air box a little farther so I won't have this problem happen again. Do you know if there is another boot with the same hole pattern that sticks out a little farther? If not, I may have to modify my air box again.
As far as the head gasket goes, I had it installed correctly. So I'm still concerned about my cooling issues. I know now that I was losing coolant from my base gasket but I'm not sure why the bike would be running at 237! I took the water pump off and everything looked good. I may have to rethink my radiator hose routing.
I really appreciate the support guys! :lol:
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Again, I'd pay close attention to your jetting before you play around with your hose routing.
Lean means heat....
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I was using the KZ3T air boot from a 2000 CR250. I may need to look at a different air boot that comes off the air box a little farther so I won't have this problem happen again. Do you know if there is another boot with the same hole pattern that sticks out a little farther? If not, I may have to modify my air box again.
As far as the head gasket goes, I had it installed correctly. So I'm still concerned about my cooling issues. I know now that I was losing coolant from my base gasket but I'm not sure why the bike would be running at 237! I took the water pump off and everything looked good. I may have to rethink my radiator hose routing.
I really appreciate the support guys! :lol:
There is no coolant at the base gasket, thought a air leak there would it to run lean and overheat
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I will be using the 2000 boot for my 07 conversion.
The 98-99 boot is on the left and the 2000 is on the right.
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=571)
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Judging by my spark plug, it doesn't look like my bike is running lean but I could be wrong.
Is the 98-99 boot longer than the 2000? I don't want to stretch my air boot like the previous one so I'm hoping to find a boot that will reach a little farther!
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Post a pic of your piston top.
That will tell us a lot.
I don't think the 98-99 is much if any longer but it is fatter and is squeezed more in the frame.
I tried many different boots but kept coming back to the 2000
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Judging by my spark plug, it doesn't look like my bike is running lean but I could be wrong.
Is the 98-99 boot longer than the 2000? I don't want to stretch my air boot like the previous one so I'm hoping to find a boot that will reach a little farther!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPalL_FM7Mc
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Here is a rough diagram of my radiator routing. Should I take the cylinder off and check that gasket?
(http://i.imgur.com/2BV3zV9.jpg)
Cody,
Change the hose routing so that the radiators are in series, like the stock system. An infrared temp gauge is a quick way to spot problems.
Larry
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Hey Larry,
I have been wanting to try it the way Cody has it in parallel but apparently you have already tried it and found it lacking.
Did you ever try reverse cooling in parallel or series?
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Larry,
I'll try the same routing the stock kx500 uses if you have found that it yields more efficient cooling. As for the air boot, I think I'm going to go with a 2001 again. I just hope it doesn't rip on me again :|
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Just a thought on your vibration problem, here's something I learned from another site. If you have a gap between your frame mounts and your engine, shim them. I bought a frame conversion from MPS, and it sucked DONKEY BALLS. I had a guy I knew at home correct it, but we took to much meat off the frame tabs, leaving a gap at all 4 points. As per recommendation, I torqued my swingarm to spec, and then made shims to fit the gaps. they weren't very thick, but every one had to be slightly forced into positon. When this is done, you have zero tension on your frame rails, and that reduces the transfer of vibration into the bike. I can honestly say, that my AF vibrates less then the original steel frame bike, as in almost non existent. The difference is huge, so if you didn't weld your mounts snug to the motor during fabrication, spend the time to do this mod. I remember how bad my Kwacker vibrated in the steel frame, I can't imagine how bad it would be in a high tension AF frame.
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On a CRF/500 I did, we had to make the airbox plate out of 3/8 plexiglass to get the boot to fit properly. It just takes up the gap and makes no stretching
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Can you post some pictures of your plexiglass plate? I'de like to see it!
I'm going to post a picture of my piston late tonight or tomorrow.
As for my motor mounts, I am installing rubber spacers in an attempt to minimize some vibration!
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I do not have the bike any longer. I just traced the crf inner box and then matched the boot to the carb side. I used flat carriage bolts to hold the plate to the box. Did the same thing with the boot to the plate. Any bolts that were on the air cleaner were flat and did not create an issue. I used a gas resistant sealer to seal the plate to the box and boot to plate. Good Luck
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Here is a picture of the top of my piston! It looks pretty normal but you guys have more experience with jetting than myself!
(http://i.imgur.com/SYpuJtq.jpg)
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Here is a side view of my piston, the damage done by the sand was'nt terrible and the rings are still in good shape. I'm glad I took the bike apart when I did!
(http://i.imgur.com/b5Pse6i.jpg)
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Did you clean the top of the piston before taking the pic?
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Can you post some pictures of your plexiglass plate? I'de like to see it!
I'm going to post a picture of my piston late tonight or tomorrow.
As for my motor mounts, I am installing rubber spacers in an attempt to minimize some vibration!
dont do this. you want the engine as rigid in their as possible. bad things happen when the engine and the frame try and flex at different rates. as in it will rip right out.
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I wiped it off but I didn't clean it!
As for the motor mounts, thanks for the input JBernard! Dodged a bullet there! I'm going to face them off so that they are completely flat and fill the remaining gap with steel washers so that it is as tight as possible! What do you think?
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I am in the process of reworking my radiator hose routing so that it mocks the stock kx500. What do you guys suggest for the left side radiator? are there any left radiators out there that won't require any welding?
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I really really like these 500 AF bikes. I have plans on turning my 2014 450 into one at some point... One of the concerns i have is how the kick starter sticks out once everything is finished. It almost looks like it could catch on your pants while riding... looks a little funny to me... What do you guys think?
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I was concerned about the kick starter at first but when I ride I don't even notice it! I was going to indent the exhaust for it but after riding with it I have no desire to!
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One of the concerns i have is how the kick starter sticks out once everything is finished. It almost looks like it could catch on your pants while riding... looks a little funny to me... What do you guys think?
I was concerned about the kick starter at first but when I ride I don't even notice it! I was going to indent the exhaust for it but after riding with it I have no desire to!
this has probably been asked and answered on here before, maybe more than once...but has anyone ever tried a kicker from an '89-'02 CR500?...since they are made/pre-bent for the lowboy pipe set-up...not sure if the shaft/spline size would be the same...but could be worth looking into.
or maybe you could swap out just the KX kicker peddle, keeping the KX boss, and put a CR peddle onto a KX boss...I don't know if it's possible, just a thought.
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I was concerned about the kick starter at first but when I ride I don't even notice it! I was going to indent the exhaust for it but after riding with it I have no desire to!
Is your kick starter actually hitting your pipe?
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One of the concerns i have is how the kick starter sticks out once everything is finished. It almost looks like it could catch on your pants while riding... looks a little funny to me... What do you guys think?
I was concerned about the kick starter at first but when I ride I don't even notice it! I was going to indent the exhaust for it but after riding with it I have no desire to!
this has probably been asked and answered on here before, maybe more than once...but has anyone ever tried a kicker from an '89-'02 CR500?...since they are made/pre-bent for the lowboy pipe set-up...not sure if the shaft/spline size would be the same...but could be worth looking into.
or maybe you could swap out just the KX kicker peddle, keeping the KX boss, and put a CR peddle onto a KX boss...I don't know if it's possible, just a thought.
Not a bad idea... but i've never seen any one mod the kick starter before...
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Here is a rough diagram of my radiator routing. Should I take the cylinder off and check that gasket?
(http://i.imgur.com/2BV3zV9.jpg)
i see your problem here with your cooling... you should not have the hose at the bottom connecting the radiators together...
Instead you should have the hose coming out of the water pump going to the right radiator at the bottom.. next, the top of the right radiator should go to the top of the left radiator.. next, the bottom of the left radiator should go to the top of the engine.. and you obviously have the hose going from the cylinder to the water pump right.. thats it! and whether the engine pumps one direction or another it will work the same.. i think that will work just fine. what you did was run the hose from the top of the radiators to the cylinder before it had a chance to flow thru the left one...