KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: jcm3 on June 23, 2014, 07:32:02 AM
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So, I went out for a weekend riding trip with a good buddy, and we were both riding KX500's that we recently bought. I found a 2000 KX500 in great condition, and spent the few weeks prior to the trip fixing little stuff that needed it. I did the typical maintenance stuff: flushed the brake fluid and coolant, changed the oil, greased all of the bearings except the steering stem bearings, put a new rear tire on it. safety wired some things, lubed the clutch cable, cleaned the air filter, checked spokes, etc. i also checked the compression, and it was a bit low, but in the middle of the range at about 130psi. I planned on replacing the top end after that trip, as I just didn't have time before. What is one more ride on a 15 year old, clean bike?
We did some light trail riding on Friday, and Saturday we hit up the Hollister GP track for a few motos on an open public track day. On my third session (they were about 10 minute sessions, as it's the first time I had ridden in about two years), it made sounds that you don't ever want to hear and locked up tight. I assumed I seized it until I pulled the pipe.
When I pulled the pipe, I was greeted with nothing in sight. No piston, connecting rod, etc. Big ouch. The bottom of the piston grenaded, and the top half with the rings is still in place up top. It hit the spark plug and put a few mild knicks in the head, but nothing big. I'm more worried about the cylinder and the bottom end. It didn't seize, as I could push the piston down with my finger.
I do see some damage to the cylinder, but won't know for sure until I pull it apart. I'm hoping it is repairable, and also hoping the cases are not damaged by the shrapnel until it locked up tight. I know that I'll definitely need:
- top end rebuild
- bottom end rebuild
- cylinder repair and re-plate
I was thinking about sending the entire motor off to Pinsonnaultracing for their $1450 total rebuild, knowing that it will cost extra to have the cylinder repaired. Has anyone dealt with them, and what kind of work do they do? Their repair includes just about everything except transmission work - http://pinsonnaultracing.com/KX500CompleteRebuild.aspx
Should I just bring the bottom end somewhere to have it rebuilt, have the cylinder repaired, and put it back together myself?
What do typical cylinder repair cost, and would it make more sense to just buy a new jug?
I don't know what I don't know here, but am very mechanically inclined, and have rebuilt the top end on about 5-8 different two strokes and my old YZ426 four stroke. So, I'm not intimidated by the work.
Thanks for anyone's opinion and input. I have a feeling that some of the input will prompt more questions. :-D
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Sending it to Todd to have it gone through will be a sure bet everything will be done right and ready to drop in. Great guy to deal with. You would not be saving much by doing it yourself.
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Sending it to Todd to have it gone through will be a sure bet everything will be done right and ready to drop in. Great guy to deal with. You would not be saving much by doing it yourself.
Great to hear, thanks.
I agree about not saving much doing it myself or piecemeal. I just called my dealer to find out how much they'd charge to do just a bottom end rebuild, and they said $1400-1500 just for that. Easy decision.
I'm just hoping that I don't run into too much extra cost. Cases are $500-ish, as is a new jug. We'll see, I guess!
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I was thinking about sending the entire motor off to Pinsonnaultracing for their $1450 total rebuild, knowing that it will cost extra to have the cylinder repaired. Has anyone dealt with them, and what kind of work do they do? Their repair includes just about everything except transmission work - http://pinsonnaultracing.com/KX500CompleteRebuild.aspx
my motor is partially Pinsonnault-ed...and I can say I'm MORE than happy with the end results as far as performance is concerned.
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I was thinking about sending the entire motor off to Pinsonnaultracing for their $1450 total rebuild, knowing that it will cost extra to have the cylinder repaired. Has anyone dealt with them, and what kind of work do they do? Their repair includes just about everything except transmission work - http://pinsonnaultracing.com/KX500CompleteRebuild.aspx
my motor is partially Pinsonnault-ed...and I can say I'm MORE than happy with the end results as far as performance is concerned.
Awesome, it's great to hear good reviews. I hoped I would. I need to get my butt to work on pulling the engine out and getting it to him. The downside will be the cost, the upside will be that it's fresh from top to bottom.
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All the work he has done for me is 115%. He has my full recommendation
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Well,except for your self Mr M :-D
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They give you a rough time frame if it is not too hosed up?
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They give you a rough time frame if it is not too hosed up?
Yeah, he's not quick. :-) He said 4-6 weeks, but also said he'd be going on vacation in July, so to add about two weeks. I'll likely be down about two months, but right now I'm not riding more than about once per month so it won't be too big a deal.
The full rebuild price is $1450, and that includes the following (from their website): Engine Dis-assembly, Inspect, Strip Cylinder and Nikasil Re-Plate, Power Valve Dis-assembly, Clean, Reassemble, Head Resurface, Piston Kit, Top End Bearing, Connecting Rod Kit, Crankshaft Rebuild, Main Bearings, Complete Engine Seal Kit, Complete Engine Gasket Kit, Complete Clutch Kit, Spark Plug, Engine Reassembly, and Return Shipping.
The x-factors for me are the cylinder and the cases. I know there is damage to the cylinder, as I can see some scoring by looking up the exhaust port. I don't know how much yet, it could be light and be repaired, or it could be pretty major and require a new jug. I won't know until I take the cylinder off, which I plan to do just to check it out. Also, the shrapnel could have caused damage that will require new cases. Either of those is around $500, so it could even be $1000 higher if I need both. I'm hoping I don't! That would seriously suck. I'm hoping the engine can be welded up and repaired that way. We'll see.
They also inspect the tranny and gears, and if anything needs replacing they can do that while they're in there. The upside is that the top end, bottom end and clutch will be new. The transmission will also have been gone over, so will be in good shape. I'm going to put on an extra hour meter I have an laying around. I'll feel better knowing the condition, age, and will be able to document the maintenance. (rationalizing to make myself feel better)
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It's amazing the damage that can be saved with welding on jugs.
I had a jug off one of destry abbots bikes that broke a rod at wot 4th gear. It was ugly. And was saved
Cases are same way
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Did the rebuild price get you a balanced crankshaft?
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It's amazing the damage that can be saved with welding on jugs.
I had a jug off one of destry abbots bikes that broke a rod at wot 4th gear. It was ugly. And was saved
Cases are same way
Great, I'm hoping mine can be saved. I can't imagine it was too bad, certainly not as bas as one of Destry Abbott's bikes. lol I was on an mx track, so not going too fast. Man, I never want to hear a bike make that sound again. It was ugly.
Did the rebuild price get you a balanced crankshaft?
Not too sure what the crankshaft specs are. I imagine that they are stock--spec, but you can shoot him an e-mail and he'll likely get back to you quickly with an answer.
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Wish I had known about sending my engine to this guy. Place I sent it to has had mine for three years. Trying to be patient. I think my patience has run out.
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Wish I had known about sending my engine to this guy. Place I sent it to has had mine for three years. Trying to be patient. I think my patience has run out.
3yrs what? I Don't see how it could even take 3 months!! That is ridiculous, someone probably out riding with your motor as we speak. I would get on that asap
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Wish I had known about sending my engine to this guy. Place I sent it to has had mine for three years. Trying to be patient. I think my patience has run out.
I'd be knocking heads. Especially if the guy has the initials. S.R. and lives in Joplin
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on the cylinder, as long as they do not have to weld any cracks, the replate job costs the same scoring or not. If your are going to send your head to Larry head could probably fix any other hiccups it has. Cylinder welding usually costs and extra $40 or $50.
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Wish I had known about sending my engine to this guy. Place I sent it to has had mine for three years. Trying to be patient. I think my patience has run out.
I have been waiting for over 4 years..... :-(
But at least I know my cylinder has been put to good use... :-D
DoldGuy
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Its not Stewart. This guy has my complete K5 motor that had a new Hinson Basket in it. Was to rebuild it. I paid more than enough for parts and labor. Been in contact with him so its possibly he will make good on what he was to do. My wife did see me looking online at plane tickets and said where in the hell are you going? In the car world have seen similaro scenarios play out. Where "shops" or individuals doing the work thought nothing would come of it when they short changed the customer. Also seen the customer come out on the end and the shop wish they had done the right thing in the first place. :-D Time will tell on this but the time part is coming to an end.
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on the cylinder, as long as they do not have to weld any cracks, the replate job costs the same scoring or not. If your are going to send your head to Larry head could probably fix any other hiccups it has. Cylinder welding usually costs and extra $40 or $50.
Good to know, thanks.
I was initially put back a bit by the cost (obviously), so I called my local Kawi dealer to find out how much they'd charge for a bottom end rebuild just for kicks. They said probably $1400-1500, just for that.
It makes the $1450 total rebuild price look pretty sweet.
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Most the shops in our area want about 2500 for a stock rebuild (Top and bottom) if you hand them the engine.
And most of the shops in our area know very little about building a K5 engine :wink:
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I agree with sandblaster, couldn't find any shop locally I could trust with mine. If I would have known all the guys on here when I got mine rebuilt I could have saved even more!! There are aa lot of guys on here who know theses motors better than they know there wives someone will point ya in the right direction. I was very happy with who I sent mine to but it wasn't a member. Paid about 1800 that's with mods and cylinder welding and replating
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There are aa lot of guys on here who know theses motors better than they know there wives someone will point ya in the right direction.
What? That's really sad. My wife, uh, shoot, what's her name, uh, hmmmmmmmmm...
I'll get back to you in a minute on that. :-D
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When I walk in the door and hear white noise... I know I'm still married :-D
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When I walk in the door and hear white noise... I know I'm still married :-D
Can't live with 'em, can't shoot 'em. lol
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When I walk in the door and hear white noise... I know I'm still married :-D
Can't live with 'em, can't shoot 'em. lol
no, that's when you pull out the ole "batter ram"...bend em over...and bust in their "backdoor" full force :-D :evil:
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When I walk in the door and hear white noise... I know I'm still married :-D
Can't live with 'em, can't shoot 'em. lol
no, that's when you pull out the ole "batter ram"...bend em over...and bust in their "backdoor" full force :-D :evil:
Now you're going to get me into trouble. lol
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Dude do the work yourself and save some coin,I just last week grenaded my piston on my 86 rippin throgh a mud hole,Im not exaggerating when I say grenaded. The top portion from just below the rings was still in the cylinder,the rest was resting on top of my crank, the piston pin was the only thing left attached to the rod, I yanked the engine,split the cases,cleaned everything,installed a new slug,my cylinder had a few dings on the edges that were easily fixed and shes runnin as good as ever,I can't f**kin beleive the compression that comes with a new slug,makes every 500 banger I have ever ridden seem worn out,won't be firing her up with my DC's anymore for sure,anyways if you got any brains at all don't send your s**t to someone when you could do the same work yourself and save the labour coin for other bits your bike may need
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Ahhh, youth. I presume anyway. :lol: I am paying other people to do stuff I do not want to do more and more these days. Granted it takes it out of my hands and I have to trust the work they do but I have decided that is ok. I will probably test my KX5 for leakage before I take it on the road and if it leaks it will most likely go out to be rebuilt even if it is just the seals that are bad. We shall see once it is on the bench. If it leaks that is.
I used to enjoy building as much or more then riding/driving/flying/whatever. It looks more like 'work' these days. Have cut back on a lot of it in the last few years. :-P
That said, I broke out the TIG and did one of the stainless steel repair projects on my bench. That was fun! Dang I like my big 'ole nasty Miller 320 ABP TIG welder! What a sweet arc!
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Ahhh, youth. I presume anyway. :lol: I am paying other people to do stuff I do not want to do more and more these days. Granted it takes it out of my hands and I have to trust the work they do but I have decided that is ok.
Exactly. I'm getting to that point also. If I was rebuilding a top end (which I've done at least 10 times in my life, to two strokes and four strokes), I'd definitely do it myself. But when it comes to something this dramatic (sounds like the same type of damage that kkvslayer say), then I don't want to mess with it. I have three kids, and let's just say that between them, work on the house, etc., time is limited.
One of the main reasons I don't want to do this one myself is because I don't know if there was any damage to the cases, which although unlikely, is possible. I don't know if I'd be able to tell by just looking at it if there was the kind of damage due to the cases that would require new ones, and I'd have to buy tools to do the job also. I calculated it out, and don't know how much I'd save. It would be something, but wouldn't cut the job in half.
At this point, I'm fine sending it out to someone who has a great reputation, and who I think will do a good job.
I also look forward to how the bike feels with a new top end, it will probably be dramatically different both in starting and with the power. I'm hoping so, anyway.