KX Riders

Maintenance & Technical => KDX (KX step child) => Topic started by: TheGDog on April 05, 2014, 06:12:39 PM

Title: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: TheGDog on April 05, 2014, 06:12:39 PM
I rebuilt front master cylinder, rebuilt front caliper. Cannot get the front line to feel right even after HOURS spent bleeding front line. Only thing left is the hose. Reason I rebuilt master cylinder was beforehand also could not get line to feel right after tons of time and fluid wasted Doing typical bleed procedure. Bleeding the rear was super easy. Had to do that one after got new rotor for it. New rotor on front too.
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: sandblaster on April 05, 2014, 06:23:51 PM
Just curious, are you using a vacuum pump to bleed?
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on April 05, 2014, 10:20:35 PM
I've always gravity bled the front systems...that's even how I do my trucks...and I've always had perfect and very precise brakes as a result.
You very well could be on the right track thinking the hose is weak, and is flexing excessively, giving you a s**tty feeling.
I don't know who makes the better steel braided lines...as I've never needed one.
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: Motorrad on April 06, 2014, 02:35:04 AM
I have all mine custom made locally.
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: alward25 on April 06, 2014, 03:07:03 AM
have you tried reverse bleeding?  Sometimes you can get a little bubble in the master cylinder that does not want to clear.
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: ID KX500 on April 06, 2014, 05:11:28 AM
I have had good luck with HEL Performance. They can make them longer if you have tall bars.

http://www.moto-heaven.com/store/product.php?mode=add&productid=16709&cat=480&page=
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: TheGDog on April 07, 2014, 06:05:38 AM
No... unfortunately not using a vacuum bleeder.  But... I've never had to on any other bike I've ever bled the brakes on, and they always seemed to bleed just fine. Including my KX500. 

sandblaster, is using a vacuum bleeder the way you personally most normally perform this task?
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: TheGDog on April 07, 2014, 06:13:37 AM
I have had good luck with HEL Performance. They can make them longer if you have tall bars.

http://www.moto-heaven.com/store/product.php?mode=add&productid=16709&cat=480&page=

Clicking your link goes to a form that only has as choices the models of the KX line.
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: sandblaster on April 07, 2014, 06:21:37 AM
Sometimes complete brake systems sit in our shop from months to years.
In that time they sometimes stop working.
Since we don't have time for doing the gravity method we use the vacuum pump.
We have also had times when the gravity method just wouldn't work.
The pump always works unless the components are bad.
Quick and easy  :wink:
26.99 at harbor freight

(http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_20429.jpg)
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: TheGDog on April 07, 2014, 06:53:51 AM
The pump always works unless the components are bad.
Quick and easy  :wink:
26.99 at harbor freight

Roger that. Thank you. I knew of this tool and was considering getting one. I'm assuming you open-up the bleeder valve down on the bottom.. hook this thing to it... leave the Master cylinder cap off... suction this thing... being mindful to not let the reservoir go below the fill mark, yes?

I felt surprised to think the hose would be the issue, but didn't know what else to think given steps I'd tried.
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on April 07, 2014, 06:54:11 AM

Since we don't have time for doing the gravity method we use the vacuum pump.
We have also had times when the gravity method just wouldn't work.

surprising....my dad was a mechanic back in the 60's through the 80's....and he showed me that trick when no one was around to help bleed the lines.
I've gravity bled hundreds of brakes consisting of cars/trucks/busses/bikes...never had one not bleed out perfectly. I thought I might have had an issue bleeding the lines on my 04 F150 last fall, but that turned out to be a collapsed rubber line...one of Fords poor designs....but I won't bleed brakes any other way. It only takes 10 minutes per side....I can do the bikes in 5.
Are you sure you're doing it right? :-P
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: TheGDog on April 07, 2014, 06:59:59 AM
Are you sure you're doing it right? :-P

Bleeding brakes is reDONKulously easy! 

Master cylinder cap is off... bleeder valve below is snug... pump-pump-pump until feel resistance... hold lever in, do not let it go... un-snug bleeder valve...wait a slight moment... re-snug... then you can relinquish hold on front brake lever and repeat process.

It's always worked like that in the past on the bikes I've done it on.
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on April 07, 2014, 07:02:45 AM
sorry...it wasn't you I was quoting G....I was making a smart a$$ comment to sandblaster :-D   
we all have our own ways of doing things....I'll stick with my way since it's never let me down...and there's no work involved my way, other than keeping the reservoir filled. :lol:
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: TheGDog on April 07, 2014, 07:04:06 AM
sorry...it wasn't you I was quoting G.

Thank having been said... I'm stating the procedure correctly... yes?
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on April 07, 2014, 07:14:34 AM
yes...you are doing it one of the correct ways...correctly :wink:
If I remember correctly...I read that Motorrad had a Hell of a time getting his brakes to "feel" right before too...I don't remember if it was the front or backs....but for some reason "caliper pins" come to mind.
Maybe he'll chime back in and tell us the story.
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on April 07, 2014, 07:18:21 AM
ahhhh....here it is, I was way off....read this, maybe it'll be your problem, maybe not :?

http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,8219.0.html
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: sandblaster on April 07, 2014, 07:47:50 AM
The pump always works unless the components are bad.
Quick and easy  :wink:
26.99 at harbor freight

Roger that. Thank you. I knew of this tool and was considering getting one. I'm assuming you open-up the bleeder valve down on the bottom.. hook this thing to it... leave the Master cylinder cap off... suction this thing... being mindful to not let the reservoir go below the fill mark, yes?

I felt surprised to think the hose would be the issue, but didn't know what else to think given steps I'd tried.

Yes, that is what we do.
But if after doing that it still doesn't operate correctly then it can be you have a different issue.
Sometimes it can be the hose being too soft and other times it can be a warped caliper piston or hole causing the problem.
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: sandblaster on April 07, 2014, 07:49:21 AM
sorry...it wasn't you I was quoting G....I was making a smart a$$ comment to sandblaster :-D   

I see. Oh well...don't be surprised if the Candy Man shows up looking for a place to stay  :evil:
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on April 07, 2014, 07:52:14 AM
sorry...it wasn't you I was quoting G....I was making a smart a$$ comment to sandblaster :-D   

I see. Oh well...don't be surprised if the Candy Man shows up looking for a place to stay  :evil:


haha....sure, I've got the perfect place for him....right in the sight of my 30-06 :evil: :-D
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: Candyman on April 07, 2014, 07:58:14 AM
Come on fellas. Im a lover not a fighter.
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on April 07, 2014, 08:03:11 AM
Come on fellas. Im a lover not a fighter.


it's all in fun.... :-D
I've said it many times before, and I'll say it again....feel free to take a jab at me anytime....just leave mother/father/sibling comments out of it :wink:
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: easykiwi_rider on April 14, 2014, 12:43:31 PM
I have had good luck with HEL Performance. They can make them longer if you have tall bars.

http://www.moto-heaven.com/store/product.php?mode=add&productid=16709&cat=480&page=

I agree ID; I had a hell of a time with my '93;
*new disc
*new pads
*rebuilt master cylinder
*bleed up
*bleed down
*new levers
*tied off brake and left overnight; and still spongy.

In the end the only thing not replaced was the hose; got a Hell one off Wemoto and it was solid enough to ride it up the back of the ute and brake in time.  :evil:

With the inverted forks (shouldn't be a problem with your model) I had to modify it; I imagine it might just bolt straight on to your model though.

I'm trying to keep my Katie as original as possible; but front brakes?  You can't compromise...


Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: don46 on April 15, 2014, 04:20:40 AM
I have had problems with the older style master cylinders, if you want good brakes get a a newer 250f/450f master cylinder or heavan forbid a honda master. lever position makes a difference also, there is an adjuster for lever position if it is in to far it doesn't feel like you have any brake. thinking further, I used to replace all the front lines on my 250's and 125's, I used Galfer and fast line, both were good.
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: TheGDog on April 21, 2014, 05:33:36 PM
I just went thru a whole bottle of brake fluid trying the vacuum bleeder method, with the one from Harbor Freight. I could never get it to stop having bubbles appear at the bleeder valve... but... to be honest I'm pretty sure that's just air sucking in from where the tube is pushed onto the bleeder valve.

Remember... had same feeling of could never get it to feel tight and not spongy... installed caliper rebuild kit.  Try again... got back again to same feeling of mildly taught but mostly spongy, where...again... you  could squeeze the lever in until it touches the handlebar.  Tore-down, cautiously cleaned inside master-cylinder being uber careful not to scratch inside that tube... installed master cylinder rebuild kit... God d**n it... back to only being able to get to a certain amount of tightness in the feel, still quite spongy, still can squeeze enough to have lever touch the handlebar.

NOTE: I have my KX500 right beside it so I can reference that one to know how the lever is supposed to feel.

ALSO NOTE: I DO NOT observe any leaking brake fluid!  Not emanating from anywhere in the caliper area... not anywhere around the master cylinder. (There's a teensy bit of spillage at the bleeder valve from removing/placing the bleeder tube, but that's it... and I wiped that area dry before beginning procedure today with the vacuum bleeder.
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: TheGDog on April 21, 2014, 05:55:38 PM
ahhhh....here it is, I was way off....read this, maybe it'll be your problem, maybe not :?

http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,8219.0.html

Hrmm... I remember thinking that these spring clips seemed to fit in there in quite a loose fashion. At least... before putting the pads in anyway.

Ugh... since I'm going about this whole thing slowly anyway... where can I order a new set of those spring clips?  And where can I order a new steel-braided brake line for this thing? 

If there is not a clear 1990 KDX200 front brake hose item I can directly select out there... could some unbelievably nice soul out there tell me whatever measurement info I need to barf-up and mention to which-ever vendor I end-up having to acquire the brake line from?


Sigh.... in the meantime I guess I'll move on to putting in the petcock rebuild kit.

Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on April 21, 2014, 08:37:17 PM
ahhhh....here it is, I was way off....read this, maybe it'll be your problem, maybe not :?

http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,8219.0.html

where can I order a new set of those spring clips? 

the spring is still available from Kawie...part# 92081-1341.
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: TheGDog on April 22, 2014, 05:14:22 AM
If someone could provide me with all the information I'd need so that I may order a new braided steel brake line as well, I'd definitely appreciate it.

My preliminary research did not find any options where it specifically stated a particular item to order that would fit my bike.
Title: Re: Best Vendor / Brand for Steel Braided front brake line KDX 200 '90
Post by: TheGDog on April 25, 2014, 07:26:04 AM
OBSERVATION NOTES: Observed the caliper and pads and their movement as I actuated the lever.  The inner pad seems to always remain basically resting against the rotor... and upon squeezing the lever... the outer pad becomes advanced inward toward the rotor.

It is not supposed to work this way... correct?  aren't both sides supposed to move away and toward the rotor upon squeezing and releasing the lever?

Does this observation seem to jive with the pad spring issue noted by in this link?
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,8219.0.html (http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,8219.0.html)

How do I go about ordering Galfer Steel braided lines for this model? ('90 KDX 200)? 

Do I just have to know how long of a line is needed? If so, how long is needed? Do you have to order their own Banjo bolts and stuff like that as well?