KX Riders

Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Aluminum Frame Conversion (AFC) => Topic started by: Jos197AF on March 24, 2014, 01:36:51 AM

Title: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on March 24, 2014, 01:36:51 AM
Hello,

My name is Jos, I'm 25 years old and I'm from the Netherlands. The last months I've been building myself a KX5AF, starting with a 1991 KX500 engine, bought on Ebay coming from California USA. I also bought a KXF 250 frame, complete without the KXF engine, exhaust, carburetor and electrical items.
The project isn't done yet, but the exhaust and the bikes graphis are the last items which need attention. But we are building on that.
I like to post some photo's and information of this conversion, so I can hear some positive/negative opinions of you guys.

Starting with the 1991 engine:
(http://i57.tinypic.com/wluamt.jpg)

The 2009 KXF250 rolling chassis:
(http://i61.tinypic.com/10r34i0.jpg)

I want to make the clutch cover divisible, so I cut the carter in pieces:
(http://i62.tinypic.com/24ayefo.jpg)

Developing an answer with SolidWorks to this problem:
(http://i57.tinypic.com/nwbgom.jpg)

Developing a new chain protector:
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2chqfe9.jpg)

Developing a new Y part (red parts into existing frame):
(http://i57.tinypic.com/2u3wn6g.jpg)

Starting cut the frame down:
(http://i57.tinypic.com/5le7lz.jpg)

Making myself some new pieces with a waterjet cutter:
(http://i58.tinypic.com/24ysj05.jpg)

Making the clutch cover:
(http://i62.tinypic.com/5mmy5z.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/r6yc1g.jpg)

Making the chain protector:
(http://i60.tinypic.com/23kuuza.jpg)

Insert the Ypart:
(http://i60.tinypic.com/1pfhtx.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/esnmuo.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/i260cz.jpg)

Building a new brake pedal:
(http://i62.tinypic.com/33m4f9h.jpg)

Making a adaptor for holding the head of the cilinder:
(http://i62.tinypic.com/1z6ctgl.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/35k3ltg.jpg)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/2r7y1qh.jpg)

Cut new radiators completely down, and built some new one (I used two new right KXF250 radiators because of the available space):
(http://i62.tinypic.com/15i8fi8.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/op8osz.jpg)
(http://i62.tinypic.com/dm8oiv.jpg)

Bought new pegs, and new Factory wheels:
(http://i57.tinypic.com/x4kznm.jpg)

Making the subframe fit a new Pro Circuit 304 silencer, and bought a new Acerbis Xseat:
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2jcua6g.jpg)
(http://i61.tinypic.com/mhg0u1.jpg)

A hard piece to create, building a Carbon airboot (there is a silicon hose between the carburetor and the airboot):
(http://i59.tinypic.com/wkk3v5.jpg)
(http://i61.tinypic.com/25ilv2c.jpg)
And it fits perfectly:
(http://i58.tinypic.com/14uyt8n.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/97tkbn.jpg)

Now we are building a handmade exhaust, and we are also developing an awesome set of stickers for the graphics of my bike. If there is some progress, I will post some pictures!

Greetings from the Netherlands!
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: sandblaster on March 24, 2014, 03:32:51 AM
Hello Jos and welcome to the forum.
I would love to see the pics but they are all blank.
I believe that you may have the security settings on the photo's set for private viewing only.
If you change the settings to Public I believe that we can all see them.
Thanks!
SB
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on March 24, 2014, 03:35:53 AM
Hello Jos and welcome to the forum.
I would love to see the pics but they are all blank.
I believe that you may have the security settings on the photo's set for private viewing only.
If you change the settings to Public I believe that we can all see them.
Thanks!
SB

Hi SB,

I will try to fix that! Without pictures this thread is worthless!
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: sandblaster on March 24, 2014, 03:43:44 AM
It's not worthless... we just have to use our imagination :-D
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: mxaniac on March 24, 2014, 04:18:43 AM
Without doing more research I can't be positive but I suspect welded 7075 is a big mistake because of stress corroision cracking. 
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on March 24, 2014, 05:07:08 AM
Without doing more research I can't be positive but I suspect welded 7075 is a big mistake because of stress corroision cracking. 

I've done some research before i have chosen for 7075 t6. Its possible,  but there is a risk of cracking (Heat). We have done it before, it ages by time (strenght will be better by time after welding).
Wait for the pictures.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: mxaniac on March 24, 2014, 06:12:14 AM
SCC is indepenent of although likely exacerbated by welding.

Without doing more research I can't be positive but I suspect welded 7075 is a big mistake because of stress corroision cracking. 

I've done some research before i have chosen for 7075 t6. Its possible,  but there is a risk of cracking (Heat). We have done it before, it ages by time (strenght will be better by time after welding).
Wait for the pictures.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Dutch-K5 Fan on March 24, 2014, 08:06:54 AM
He Jos197AF, I have been looking at Motor forum.nl. Nice looking clutchcover.

Hope to see more of the build here.


Dutchie
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: motopunk on March 24, 2014, 08:42:01 AM
He Jos197AF, I have been looking at Motor forum.nl. Nice looking clutchcover.

Hope to see more of the build here.


Dutchie

hey dutchie ..would you post a link, where we could find it there directly on the other website?
want to see the pics to his interesting descriptions...  :-D

hey jos.. welcome to kx-riders and greatings from germany..  8-)
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Dutch-K5 Fan on March 24, 2014, 08:47:13 AM
http://www.motor-forum.nl/forum/list_messages/367415/Kawasaki-KX500AF-Conversion-1.html (http://www.motor-forum.nl/forum/list_messages/367415/Kawasaki-KX500AF-Conversion-1.html)

Here she is Motopunk :-D

Dutchie
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on March 24, 2014, 10:01:25 AM
Hi guys, I make the pictures work again!  :-D

Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on March 24, 2014, 10:13:01 AM
Hi guys, I make the pictures work again!  :-D



wow...that is just awesome!!!!
brake pedal, air boot...excellent work...
I wouldn't expect that GEO-MAX 11 to last very long. 
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on March 24, 2014, 10:22:16 AM
Hi guys, I make the pictures work again!  :-D



wow...that is just awesome!!!!
brake pedal, air boot...excellent work...
I wouldn't expect that GEO-MAX 11 to last very long. 

Thnx mate!
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: jBernard on March 24, 2014, 10:34:01 AM
im going to try and do a CF subframe like the twin air version (just hopefully i wont spend 2K like theirs cost). and that airboot looks awesome!
post some pics of the process if you have any. also how are you sealing the silicone to the cf airboot correctly?
awesome job. very impressive and nice access to a waterjet.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on March 24, 2014, 10:56:01 AM
im going to try and do a CF subframe like the twin air version (just hopefully i wont spend 2K like theirs cost). and that airboot looks awesome!
post some pics of the process if you have any. also how are you sealing the silicone to the cf airboot correctly?
awesome job. very impressive and nice access to a waterjet.

I'm sorry, I don't have any pics of the process making the carbon airboot. But it takes me more than 50 hours to make it perfect.

A little preview of the exhaust of my project, its going to look just like this:
(http://i57.tinypic.com/oti1zp.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: jBernard on March 24, 2014, 11:06:57 AM
i too am going to try to get a cone pipe built. what material are you going to try to use? I've got a good laser cutter source and would like to use 6al4v Ti but still trying to find someone that can weld it without being over the top $$$. do you have the software or a sheet roller yet?
good ideas youve got, me and you think alike.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Dutch-K5 Fan on March 25, 2014, 06:33:40 AM
What about Stainless steel for the exhaust?
Jos, do you know how much KX500AF's are there in holland?


Dutchie
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on March 25, 2014, 06:41:22 AM
Stainless steel, 0.8 mm.

I've no idea how many KX500 AF conversions The Netherlands counts. Never seen one KX5AF before here, much more CR500AF's.
Do you have a picture of your AF Dutch?

Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Dutch-K5 Fan on March 25, 2014, 07:10:56 AM
I think I'll do stainless later this year, mine is rusty now.
Also have a SPES lowboy that I want to copy in stainless.
The pic's
https://picasaweb.google.com/102067261144953476086/BuildOfA07KX500AF# (https://picasaweb.google.com/102067261144953476086/BuildOfA07KX500AF#)
And there are many more of other AF, SF, Jadoul and more.

Build thread
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,4891.0.html (http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,4891.0.html)

Never seen a kx500AF than mine. I have her for 5 years now, and still loving it.
Have you ever ridden a 500 befor?
And where you from? I live in Rijsenhout(Schiphol).

Dutchie
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on March 25, 2014, 07:30:48 AM
I think I'll do stainless later this year, mine is rusty now.
Also have a SPES lowboy that I want to copy in stainless.
The pic's
https://picasaweb.google.com/102067261144953476086/BuildOfA07KX500AF# (https://picasaweb.google.com/102067261144953476086/BuildOfA07KX500AF#)
And there are many more of other AF, SF, Jadoul and more.

Build thread
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,4891.0.html (http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,4891.0.html)

Never seen a kx500AF than mine. I have her for 5 years now, and still loving it.
Have you ever ridden a 500 befor?
And where you from? I live in Rijsenhout(Schiphol).

Dutchie

Very nice!

Never rode a KX500 before, but I've had a Honda CR500 for 5 years:

(http://i61.tinypic.com/ilcevs.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/16hq42h.jpg)

Ik kom uit Brabant.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: mxaniac on March 25, 2014, 07:41:16 AM
So I know I'm sounding like a broken record here (what is the modern phrase for that?) so I'll bring this up one more time and shut up about it.  You really  need to take a second look at 7075 on the frame.  I've had field failures with product using 7075 because of the smallest surface scratches from machining which promoted SCC.  This has nothing to do with welding, machined parts in 7075 can fail under pretty benign conditions.  7075 needs to be in the T7 temper for this application but you might very well anneal the rest of the frame too much by doing so.  You need to look at the aging curves of all the alloys involved and see if a compatible process exists.  If you don't you could end up in the hospitol or under ground.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on March 25, 2014, 08:05:08 AM
So I know I'm sounding like a broken record here (what is the modern phrase for that?) so I'll bring this up one more time and shut up about it.  You really  need to take a second look at 7075 on the frame.  I've had field failures with product using 7075 because of the smallest surface scratches from machining which promoted SCC.  This has nothing to do with welding, machined parts in 7075 can fail under pretty benign conditions.  7075 needs to be in the T7 temper for this application but you might very well anneal the rest of the frame too much by doing so.  You need to look at the aging curves of all the alloys involved and see if a compatible process exists.  If you don't you could end up in the hospitol or under ground.

Thank you for the advise. The welding of the 7075 y part went striking great in my opinion. Above my expectations, honestly (no visible heatcracking by the welding proces). I know the risk before choosing this alloy. I made the construction secure, the weld can crack, but the Y part can't get a way out of his position. Or the orginal chassis has to crack completely under the Y part. 
My English isn't that good to explain it at its best to you. The bike won't take huge jumps (the tracks i ride in the Netherlands don't allow that. My talent don't allow to take big jumps also :-D ).

I will supervise this issue frequently! If I see any failure, if I suspect any upcoming failure, I can easily replace the 7075 part for another aluminium alloy Y part.

The welding went great by my feeling and by my welding experience, and the welds looks good also.
(http://i60.tinypic.com/1pfhtx.jpg)

I am very cautious at this point. We shall see after charging the beast  :-)

Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: motopunk on March 25, 2014, 08:18:51 AM
http://www.motor-forum.nl/forum/list_messages/367415/Kawasaki-KX500AF-Conversion-1.html (http://www.motor-forum.nl/forum/list_messages/367415/Kawasaki-KX500AF-Conversion-1.html)

Here she is Motopunk :-D

Dutchie


thanks dutchie...  and iīve seen elsnorro was also there..   :-)  

.. jos, your cr500 looks also not bad, but you will not miss it, after first kx500 ride...  :wink:
... in the last years i tested nearly all big bore 2strokes except the most aircooled models... 83 suzuki rm 465 in 1979 twinshock-frame, 95 maico 500 , 98 kawasaki kx500, stock 99 honda cr500 and a 98 cr500 ex-gp-bike from german sarholz-honda-team that a friend of me owned for 2 years, 92 ktm mx500, 95 ktm sx440, 97 ktm sxs 360, 99 ktm sx 380, my kx360 engine in 93,97 and87 frame and my 93 conversion with the 86 kx500 motor ...my result: the kx500 is the best big bore engine ever made. smooth, but powerful with big amount of over-rev when needed..  in direct comparing the cr500 is an aggressive tractor with a short rpm-range ...only useful for handful of riders that are able to handle this rocket-effect that the stock-engine produce ... i could, but my heart is green now..  :-D  
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on March 25, 2014, 08:48:05 AM
http://www.motor-forum.nl/forum/list_messages/367415/Kawasaki-KX500AF-Conversion-1.html (http://www.motor-forum.nl/forum/list_messages/367415/Kawasaki-KX500AF-Conversion-1.html)

Here she is Motopunk :-D

Dutchie


thanks dutchie...  and iīve seen elsnorro was also there..   :-)  

.. jos, your cr500 looks also not bad, but you will not miss it, after first kx500 ride...  :wink:
... in the last years i tested nearly all big bore 2strokes except the most aircooled models... 83 suzuki rm 465 in 1979 twinshock-frame, 95 maico 500 , 98 kawasaki kx500, stock 99 honda cr500 and a 98 cr500 ex-gp-bike from german sarholz-honda-team that a friend of me owned for 2 years, 92 ktm mx500, 95 ktm sx440, 97 ktm sxs 360, 99 ktm sx 380, my kx360 engine in 93,97 and87 frame and my 93 conversion with the 86 kx500 motor ...my result: the kx500 is the best big bore engine ever made. smooth, but powerful with big amount of over-rev when needed..  in direct comparing the cr500 is an aggressive tractor with a short rpm-range ...only useful for handful of riders that are able to handle this rocket-effect that the stock-engine produce ... i could, but my heart is green now..  :-D  

ElSnorro...... I am making a steely KX500 conversion for him!
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Dutch-K5 Fan on March 25, 2014, 09:10:08 AM
Have seen some guys on marktplaats(Dutch ebay) made an AF and never ridden a 500.
What happens next, they sell it because it's to fast. ( It is offcourse, don't tell them  :-D )

Have been riding with the KNMV Juniors for 7or 8 years in the south district.
So have been 40km around Eindhoven alot. Couple of trainingcamps at Veldhoven. I used to be a real sand rider but for the last 5 years it's mostly hardpack, a place were the KX500AF works verry well I must say.
The funnist thing some one said to me who raced with me at the 125 class was.
MAN that REALLY hurts riding behint you with that roost! :mrgreen:

Motopunk, That are alot of CC's in your riding live :-D


Dutchie
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on March 25, 2014, 09:19:00 AM
Have seen some guys on marktplaats(Dutch ebay) made an AF and never ridden a 500.
What happens next, they sell it because it's to fast. ( It is offcourse, don't tell them  :-D )

Have been riding with the KNMV Juniors for 7or 8 years in the south district.
So have been 40km around Eindhoven alot. Couple of trainingcamps at Veldhoven. I used to be a real sand rider but for the last 5 years it's mostly hardpack, a place were the KX500AF works verry well I must say.
The funnist thing some one said to me who raced with me at the 125 class was.
MAN that REALLY hurts riding behint you with that roost! :mrgreen:

Motopunk, That are alot of CC's in your riding live :-D


Dutchie

Veldhoven.....that tricky track brought me some injuries......:

(http://i57.tinypic.com/ztiwx1.jpg)
(http://i59.tinypic.com/iej8r5.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2hposg8.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: kxpegger on March 25, 2014, 01:15:45 PM
Have seen some guys on marktplaats(Dutch ebay) made an AF and never ridden a 500.
What happens next, they sell it because it's to fast. ( It is offcourse, don't tell them  :-D )

Have been riding with the KNMV Juniors for 7or 8 years in the south district.
So have been 40km around Eindhoven alot. Couple of trainingcamps at Veldhoven. I used to be a real sand rider but for the last 5 years it's mostly hardpack, a place were the KX500AF works verry well I must say.
The funnist thing some one said to me who raced with me at the 125 class was.
MAN that REALLY hurts riding behint you with that roost! :mrgreen:

Motopunk, That are alot of CC's in your riding live :-D


Dutchie

Veldhoven.....that tricky track brought me some injuries......:

(http://i57.tinypic.com/ztiwx1.jpg)
(http://i59.tinypic.com/iej8r5.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2hposg8.jpg)

Ouuch! Great job on the AF! Some real precision work going on there! Kawasaki should be taking notes!
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: sandblaster on March 25, 2014, 01:36:53 PM
Too bad there wasn't a metallic tape or other process that could be applied to the outside of the frame rail that would discolor when the rails were under extreme tension.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: motopunk on March 25, 2014, 06:15:50 PM
Have seen some guys on marktplaats(Dutch ebay) made an AF and never ridden a 500.
What happens next, they sell it because it's to fast. ( It is offcourse, don't tell them  :-D )

Have been riding with the KNMV Juniors for 7or 8 years in the south district.
So have been 40km around Eindhoven alot. Couple of trainingcamps at Veldhoven. I used to be a real sand rider but for the last 5 years it's mostly hardpack, a place were the KX500AF works verry well I must say.
The funnist thing some one said to me who raced with me at the 125 class was.
MAN that REALLY hurts riding behint you with that roost! :mrgreen:

Motopunk, That are alot of CC's in your riding live :-D


Dutchie

dutchie ... and i doesnt listed my 50cc simson , the 3 125īs and the 7 250īs that i owned over the years. .. i was interested for myself , how much diferent the big bikes perform, before i buy or make myself one...  since last last spring, i ride my first own kx500..and it is lot of fun to see the stunning guys on the track, that afraid of 250 2strokes and cant believe that a 500 would be rideable   :evil: :-D..


@jos... did not know, that you are the mastermind of elsnorroīs sf-conversion as i gave him a little bit help to fix his carb-holder-problem...  :-)
by the way... you make great work with your project...
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on March 26, 2014, 01:44:14 AM
Have seen some guys on marktplaats(Dutch ebay) made an AF and never ridden a 500.
What happens next, they sell it because it's to fast. ( It is offcourse, don't tell them  :-D )

Have been riding with the KNMV Juniors for 7or 8 years in the south district.
So have been 40km around Eindhoven alot. Couple of trainingcamps at Veldhoven. I used to be a real sand rider but for the last 5 years it's mostly hardpack, a place were the KX500AF works verry well I must say.
The funnist thing some one said to me who raced with me at the 125 class was.
MAN that REALLY hurts riding behint you with that roost! :mrgreen:

Motopunk, That are alot of CC's in your riding live :-D


Dutchie

dutchie ... and i doesnt listed my 50cc simson , the 3 125īs and the 7 250īs that i owned over the years. .. i was interested for myself , how much diferent the big bikes perform, before i buy or make myself one...  since last last spring, i ride my first own kx500..and it is lot of fun to see the stunning guys on the track, that afraid of 250 2strokes and cant believe that a 500 would be rideable   :evil: :-D..


@jos... did not know, that you are the mastermind of elsnorroīs sf-conversion as i gave him a little bit help to fix his carb-holder-problem...  :-)
by the way... you make great work with your project...

Thanks!
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on March 26, 2014, 04:39:41 AM
So I know I'm sounding like a broken record here (what is the modern phrase for that?) so I'll bring this up one more time and shut up about it.  You really  need to take a second look at 7075 on the frame.  I've had field failures with product using 7075 because of the smallest surface scratches from machining which promoted SCC.  This has nothing to do with welding, machined parts in 7075 can fail under pretty benign conditions.  7075 needs to be in the T7 temper for this application but you might very well anneal the rest of the frame too much by doing so.  You need to look at the aging curves of all the alloys involved and see if a compatible process exists.  If you don't you could end up in the hospitol or under ground.

Maybe it's a good idea to install one extra head mount, on the front of the engine. Just in case. Then always investigate the suspicious parts on cracks after riding the KX5.

I have done some research. Know your point know. But besides, the alloy is often used in the aircraft industrie, and there are also welded mountainbike (or other bicycle) frames made of this alloy. 7075 has good properties of tensile strenght and dynamic tensions. But if I understand you the right way, there is a chance the combined alloys can provide stress in the material, which can lead to cracks (stress corrosion cracking).

If I make an extra head mount, the suspicious parts can fail by cracking, but the chassis will stay together. Or al the four points (now it has three points) of mounts has to fail at the same time.

When i have some time, I wil make an extra Y part, made of another alloy. So when it's neccessary I can replace the Y part easily, it will take me a few hours to re-weld the frame when the engine and the other parts are removed.

Very interesting case... I'm curious about how the frame will stand under charging the KX5.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: motopunk on March 26, 2014, 08:15:03 AM
that was one of the reasons to make my steel-frame-conversion...  the 2. was that i had this frame laying around and realy like the ergonomics of the 93 kx 250 ... 3. the aluminium-welding is little bit more dificult than on steele and  4. nowhere was an aluminium-framed bike with a blown engine to find... 
but if i will find an al-bike i plan to build the worlds first kx360af ...  8-)
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: hulkteam476 on March 26, 2014, 10:53:38 AM
Hi,
The ideal (or the best, I used this) for me is, alloys 6061 t6... or (6063)...better flexibility...
simply, the 7075 is realy rigid. Good aplication for to make the linkage or triple clamp but,
too rigid whit the other part of you'r frame.

THX..
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on March 26, 2014, 12:57:35 PM
Hi,
The ideal (or the best, I used this) for me is, alloys 6061 t6... or (6063)...better flexibility...
simply, the 7075 is realy rigid. Good aplication for to make the linkage or triple clamp but,
too rigid whit the other part of you'r frame.

THX..

Too rigid? The E modulus of 6061 is 69 GPa, the E modulus of 7075 is 71 GPa. Not a big difference.
I think too rigid is not the problem. 7075 contains more zinc and magnesium.  Stress corrosion cracking is the issue to watch out for.

Applications 7075: aircraft fittings, gears and shafts, fuse parts, missile parts, regulating valve parts, wormgears, keys, aircraft/aerospace/defense applications, bike frames,  atv sprockets
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: hulkteam476 on March 26, 2014, 10:46:22 PM
You know I told you this but you do whatever you want my friend.
Just, as you passed spectrometer, your original frame?
I say "simply" not to go into details.
In addition be warned that you have the machined part (7075) in full.
The 7075 does not manage at all the same constraints: bending, vibration ... compared to the 6061 or 6063... for this application. You also have to know that the 6061 is much better for welding performance and is also used in aeronautics.
This said, you were right to try. After testing you can give me your feedback.
Thx
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on March 27, 2014, 12:39:55 AM
You know I told you this but you do whatever you want my friend.
Just, as you passed spectrometer, your original frame?
I say "simply" not to go into details.
In addition be warned that you have the machined part (7075) in full.
The 7075 does not manage at all the same constraints: bending, vibration ... compared to the 6061 or 6063... for this application. You also have to know that the 6061 is much better for welding performance and is also used in aeronautics.
This said, you were right to try. After testing you can give me your feedback.
Thx

Don't get me wrong. All information is welcome. My English isn't that good, I don't understand everything what is written about this.
I know its risky, and maybe I replace the Y part before I'm going to ride the bike. One evening work and the job is done. But I am also curious about how it will stand. Before I've ordered the 7075 I've got some wrong information about 7075. We have got years of experience with welding aluminium, but usualy 6082 or just cast engine cases for reparation for example. Not special alu alloys.
Whats the best option to use for the chassis? 6061, 6063, 6082, 7005?  Or which one else? Which heat treatment? T6, T651,...?
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: hulkteam476 on March 27, 2014, 12:53:45 AM
for me the best: 6061 with T6.
Read This (sorry in french)

http://www.aubertduval.fr/uploads/tx_obladygestionproduit/6061_FR.pdf
Thx
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: jBernard on March 27, 2014, 02:45:41 AM
JFabs rails are 6063 and i talked to him about them. 6061 is T6 full strength heat treated, 6063 i think is not fully treated or not at all. so his idea is that to bend a rail thats more malleable, will induce less stress to the metal than one that is hardened and more brittle. He said he never had a rail breakage on his 6063 ones and he doesnt HT. pretty surprising.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: mxaniac on March 27, 2014, 04:18:04 AM
6063 has a much lower yield strength in comparable tempers than 6061.  If you're going to heat treat afterwards 6061-O would have the benefits of being softer for forming, then when you precipitation harden it you'll get your desireable strength back.

I still think 7005 is a great choice because it is so easy to heat treat which is why it is so widely used on frames.  It's probably what Kawasaki used in the first place.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: jBernard on March 27, 2014, 05:14:43 AM
who did your HT and how much was it?
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: mxaniac on March 27, 2014, 06:47:43 AM
I did it myself.  Here is a point of reference you can review: http://www.eastoncycling.com/bike/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/fab_instructions-7005_6061.pdf (http://www.eastoncycling.com/bike/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/fab_instructions-7005_6061.pdf)
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: jBernard on March 27, 2014, 07:12:31 AM
ha, ive read that pdf a few times before, funny you mention it.
did you do 7 series on your rails and just age? or do you have access to an oven that can do solution?
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: mxaniac on March 27, 2014, 10:41:15 AM
Well since my frame is broken perhaps I ain't such a smart feller afterall but I just artificially aged my frame in an oven at work.  The ovens at work won't do solution treatment.  I would recommend waiting until your wife is out of town if you want to try and do it at home.  I'm assuming that Kawasaki also used 7005, I'm not positive on that but there is plenty of speculation that it is.  I'm pretty sure I could identify the alloy with our FTIR at work but it never occured to me to do that at the time.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: ToomanyKaws on March 28, 2014, 04:50:32 AM
Nice build.   :-)   I am having a second frame modified now.  Was at the guys shop yesterday and asked the guy about the alum you are using.   He said you can't.   Will break.  Doesn't want to be welded.   Its ok for a static part.  A bracket, etc.   Not as a structure.    This guy is old and has been machining and welding metals for 50 years.     Then he pulled some alum out of a box he is making stilts out of.    Like you see the characters walking around Disney on.    He makes them for a company who sells them to all of the Disney parks in the world.    Also showed me a few other grades of alum on the rack and what each types strong points are.   So atleast I asked and learned.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: hulkteam476 on March 28, 2014, 07:14:52 AM
Well,
when I putted my frame crf 450 2004 spectrometer I had not removed the "alumine" layer chemically, but the composition was close to the 6061.
To enter into details: When you weld the 6061 t6, it loses itscharacteristics and becomes close to the "t0", so you should make a quenching and an income, particularly by gravity or projection by dropping your piece into water after bringing it to a temperature of 529 -540 ° C max. Normally this heater must be homogeneous, so in an oven. For me, oxyacetylene torch.

Something else: the physical composition of the 7005 is close to the 6061 so it is a good alloy for this application (frame) which has a slightly higher density. But the 7005 does not have a temper and regains its normal state in the open air, they have (the 6061 and 7005) an excellent welding behavior unlike the 7075 which is not weldable to me (heresy). Test weld a piece out of your frame and makes a stress test ( tensile ) has your welding.
Thx
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on March 29, 2014, 06:13:16 AM
My girlfriend is becoming not happy at all..... I am starting to fall in love with my bike....

(http://i62.tinypic.com/mb0pyh.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: jBernard on March 29, 2014, 06:33:53 AM
woah is that your pipe? i'd say thats a cr500 one from scalvini but i see that cut off on the table. NEED more info!
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on March 29, 2014, 06:59:14 AM
woah is that your pipe? i'd say thats a cr500 one from scalvini but i see that cut off on the table. NEED more info!

My bike, my exhaust. Not a scalvini, but a special made exhaust for my bike. Not finished yet, right side has to be done also. This is just the beginning.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: jBernard on March 29, 2014, 07:11:11 AM
wow you are hauling ass on this project! that is impressive.
i'm wanting to do the EXACT same thing.
couple questions:
- what software did you use to plot the expansion chambers?
- cut the sheet metal out by hand or laser jet?
- how did you roll them? slip roll?
- tack the whole thing up, then purge the inside and weld completely or weld each slice fully at a time?

Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: motopunk on March 29, 2014, 02:17:15 PM
My girlfriend is becoming not happy at all..... I am starting to fall in love with my bike....

(http://i62.tinypic.com/mb0pyh.jpg)

i can understand you...this is an very sexy looking exhaust...  :-D

Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Dutch-K5 Fan on March 30, 2014, 05:43:45 AM
wow you are hauling ass on this project! that is impressive.
i'm wanting to do the EXACT same thing.
couple questions:
- what software did you use to plot the expansion chambers?
- cut the sheet metal out by hand or laser jet?
- how did you roll them? slip roll?
- tack the whole thing up, then purge the inside and weld completely or weld each slice fully at a time?




Plus+ here.  If you have the files for lasercutting, I'm intressted.


Dutchie
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: ID KX500 on March 30, 2014, 06:22:43 AM
My girlfriend is becoming not happy at all..... I am starting to fall in love with my bike....

(http://i62.tinypic.com/mb0pyh.jpg)

If your girlfriend is hotter than this bike,,,you are one lucky man!!!
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: jBernard on March 30, 2014, 08:31:45 AM
looking at this picture again and just gotta say that whoever fitted and welded that knows what they are doing. thats some seriously tight fitment. i've looked at dozens of cone pipes and that one looks top notch.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on March 31, 2014, 12:20:42 AM
wow you are hauling ass on this project! that is impressive.
i'm wanting to do the EXACT same thing.
couple questions:
- what software did you use to plot the expansion chambers?
- cut the sheet metal out by hand or laser jet?
- how did you roll them? slip roll?
- tack the whole thing up, then purge the inside and weld completely or weld each slice fully at a time?



Software is Bimotion, and everything is handmade, no laser cutting, so no dxf files.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Dutch-K5 Fan on March 31, 2014, 07:16:34 AM
Bimotion likes the kx500. do you have Bimotion_2-Stroke_Case_Study?
Have it on pdf

I "use" http://buildandclick.com/html/tuned_pipe.html (http://buildandclick.com/html/tuned_pipe.html) they have dualpower, sounds intresting.

Have you use a steel wire with cardboard ring to model the route of the exhaust?
Any fancy material used and how did you weldid it?

Dutchie
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on April 09, 2014, 08:51:41 AM
A few pics. More will come.

(http://i58.tinypic.com/nzywi.jpg)

(http://i62.tinypic.com/2rqm6wl.jpg)

(http://i60.tinypic.com/a43g93.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: jBernard on April 09, 2014, 09:34:54 AM
wow that pipe turned out well. no idea how you got that tight of fitment cutting it out by hand.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: hulkteam476 on April 09, 2014, 10:51:40 AM
Great execution, Good fitment so, nice job
I like!

Please post a video with sound...
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: ylwgtr on April 09, 2014, 04:08:45 PM
exceptional fabrication on the pipe....hats off to who ever done it!
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: sandblaster on April 09, 2014, 04:45:22 PM
Exceptional and impressive.... Thanks for sharing..
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: kranker1450 on April 11, 2014, 01:00:58 PM
That pipe is soooo sexy!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on May 13, 2014, 10:13:39 AM
(http://i61.tinypic.com/29ymbp.jpg)

(http://i58.tinypic.com/1267llx.jpg)

(http://i57.tinypic.com/qp0wvq.jpg)

(http://i61.tinypic.com/xqcp4h.jpg)

(http://i59.tinypic.com/34dskcj.jpg)

(http://i60.tinypic.com/oiurn.jpg)

(http://i57.tinypic.com/fm6s8n.jpg)

(http://i58.tinypic.com/n2mpld.jpg)

(http://i57.tinypic.com/14kd6iq.jpg)

Satisfied  :)
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Foxx4Beaver on May 13, 2014, 10:16:37 AM
satisfied??...a work of art like that, and all you can say is satisfied...."BOING" comes to mind 1st for me...that thing looks incredible!!
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: jBernard on May 13, 2014, 11:41:03 AM
AWESOME!!! thats one bad build!

so how does it ride? im hoping you can review how the pipe feels. one of my biggest fears is getting a custom one made and dumping some serious $$$ into it and it not performing like i was hoping.


Also, maybe you have some insight on this. my welder told me that doing a cone pipe like that, with Ti (may be less of an issue with SS) will experience some metal shrinkage due to welding. He does turbo kits and the like for some crazy $$ cars. So my question is after all those cuts did you end up experience any fitment issues due to metal shrinkage?

thanks
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Dutch-K5 Fan on May 14, 2014, 04:43:43 AM
 :-o Nice bike Jos. Here's a nice place to test the bike http://www.motocross-nieuwvennep.nl/index.php (http://www.motocross-nieuwvennep.nl/index.php).
I ride the Oranje klasse Open, would be great to have another AF at the start.



Dutchie
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on May 14, 2014, 05:23:47 AM
Exhaust fitts perfectly. No fittment issues!

I need to adjust the carb, thats the next thing to do.
First start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lvA89Ft0Vo

Dutchie, dat is een eind weg voor mij. Ga eerst een paar keer lekker trainen met het ding, en de carburateur afstellen. Heb daar nog niks aan gedaan. Heb sinds januari 2013 niet meer gereden, dus eerst lekker maar een paar rondjes rijden hier in de buurt ;)
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: jBernard on May 21, 2014, 03:16:55 PM
any ride updates yet?

i'd be willing to pay for dyno time if you did back to back pulls with that pipe and a fmf gnarly or fatty.
even though the numbers in the software should be right, would really like to see some legit results in comparison to another pipe thats been used for years.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: motopunk on May 21, 2014, 04:46:29 PM
i love this pipe... thatīs the look of the 2stroke-works- and prototype-gp-bikes of the middle 90īs ... only remembering greg albertijnīs 98 works rm250 .. :-)

it looks a little bit, that you copied an existing cr500 aftermarket pipe with smart changes to fit the kx500af perfectly..  :wink:

how is the power-delivery ?
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on May 22, 2014, 11:37:41 PM
I Haven't ridden it on the sand yet, but did a little round through the village. What a beast, I've had a CR500 for 5 years a couple years ago, and this KX500AF 'scares' me a little bit. So much power, so unbelievable  fast! I won't be able to ride it on the track the next two weeks, but after I'm back from Bulgaria I'm going to release the beast on the sand. More pictures and video's will come. I've adjust the carb a little bit, and it runs much better now for my feeling. But I can adjust the carb finally on the track ofcourse.
I am surprised of how minimal the vibration of this bike is. I expected a lot more! Happy with that. I also made an extra headstay on the frame at the front, so I wonder how this headstay influence the vibration. My engine is captured at four points now instead of the normally three points.

Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: motopunk on May 23, 2014, 06:23:05 AM
with other words: it is a kx500 . the strongest open class 2 stroke bike that ever was build...  :-D
for the most modern mx-tracks it has to much power, but any 450īs that were on track with me, only saw my rear fender between race-start and first corner...  :evil:

iīm now excited for your ride report...  :-)
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Dutch-K5 Fan on June 30, 2014, 06:58:12 AM
So how does it ride Jos???


Dutchie
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: dave916 on July 09, 2014, 05:24:01 AM
i love this pipe... thatīs the look of the 2stroke-works- and prototype-gp-bikes of the middle 90īs ... only remembering greg albertijnīs 98 works rm250 .. :-)

it looks a little bit, that you copied an existing cr500 aftermarket pipe with smart changes to fit the kx500af perfectly..  :wink:

how is the power-delivery ?

{it looks a little bit, that you copied an existing cr500 aftermarket pipe with smart changes to fit the kx500af perfectly..  :wink:}
 i think it took slightly more effort  than coping an existing cr500 aftermarket pipe  :-) :-)
amazing work Jos197AF   
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on July 30, 2014, 09:33:33 AM
So how does it ride Jos???


Dutchie

I rode it two times now, at Berghem, the Netherlands.
Steering is fine, the power is lovely and smooth. It's a beast to ride. My arms last for about 4 rounds, I need more training after not ride a dirtbike for two years.  :-D
In my opinion it's easier to handle than a CR5! Very fast, but much smoother! So many positive reactions from other guys at the dirtbike track!

(http://i60.tinypic.com/2q9l9p0.jpg)

(http://i59.tinypic.com/33xgg02.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: sandblaster on July 30, 2014, 12:37:03 PM
I need to get mine done... Your just having way to much fun...  8-)
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: jBernard on July 30, 2014, 02:42:14 PM
great photos and awesome build again Jos.
what gearing are you running and do you like it?
hows the powerband with that pipe software? is it like you thought it would be?
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on August 03, 2014, 08:00:46 AM
great photos and awesome build again Jos.
what gearing are you running and do you like it?
hows the powerband with that pipe software? is it like you thought it would be?

14 - 49

Power delivery is smooth. More than I expected! Surprised by that! Can ride a sandtrack by using the third gear only. No clutch needed.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on September 28, 2014, 09:17:31 AM
Two rounds KX500AF Berghem (The Netherlands)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH4rEsPBCpE
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: kxpegger on September 28, 2014, 10:36:33 AM
Sounds like you were staying up a gear? My opinion, that's the way to ride a 500. Make it tractor and put the power to the ground. Wheel spin gets you nowhere.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on September 28, 2014, 10:18:46 PM
That's right!

(http://i57.tinypic.com/5mlt76.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: jBernard on October 13, 2014, 03:16:01 PM
jos,
how thick was the sheetmetal on the pipe?
how did you roll it? with a sliproll?
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: Jos197AF on October 14, 2014, 05:40:34 AM
Exactly.
Thickness 1.0 mm. But you can choose for 0,8 mm also.
Title: Re: Dutch 500AF Conversion 250KXF 2009
Post by: 1901306708 on October 14, 2014, 03:09:30 PM
thats a very nice pipe. power should be nice and broad. lots of length and cones arent too steep. i just had one built as well.

nothing beats the looks if you can keep the rust off them. theres some decent high temp clearcoat out now.