KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => Kx Frankensteins => Topic started by: Goat on January 13, 2014, 05:30:02 PM
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I started building this thing last winter but never had a chance to start a build thread. There isn't a lot of pics as I have had phone issues and lost most of them. Got a new phone and it takes way better pics than any other phone I've had. Anyway...
Had a 87 K5 engine in a 92 frame with a bunch of 87 /88 parts attached to it. It didn't ride very well and didn't run very well either. Found some cracks in the frame and decided I needed to do something different with it. So I started pulling it apart.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/834/imbm.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/n6imbmj)
2 days after setting the engine on a shelf my buddy called and said I got you a 85 quadracer 250 for cheap. Complete minus jug, head, and brake pads. Sold all the suzuki garbage I didn't need and started to get the fab gears turning.
After staring at it for a day I went and bought an 8ft chunk of 1" diameter 1/8" wall tubing to strengthen the frame with. Ended up only using about 4 feet of the tubing. Once all that was reinforced to my liking I cut the front engine mount tube just above where the exhaust port on the k5 engine wouldn't hit it. Then I cut 2 pieces of the new tubing and put a nice bend in each one to end up with a wishbone support like the bike had. Welded that in and set the engine in. Swingarm needed no modifications for the engine to fit. I was impressed with how easy it went together from there.
Once I got the engine sitting in there I had to figure out engine mounts. Lower engine mount needed moved forward half inch or so. Used 1/8" flat plate for front mounts. Drilled and bent accordingly. I made the head stay brackets the same way.
Now that the engine is in. Chain lines up perfectly. Now the fun part... How do I get the giant K5 pipe to fit :P This took the longest. I wanted the pipe to fit in a way that I wouldn't burn my leg and prefer it to exit out the left side so it wouldn't cause issues if I ever wanted to put rear fenders on it. Originally I used part of the K5 stock pipe and part of a quadracer pipe. Engine would run but wouldn't rev above 3k rpm. So I started researching pipe design. Ended up buying a program for building pipes. Learned a lot playing with that program. I contacted Sanblaster to see if he could keep an eye out for a junk pipe I could cut up. He had one off his personal bike that he hooked me up with for an excellent price as always. Used most of that pipe and part of the quadracer pipe I originally used. Fabed up some exhaust mounts and fired it up. Ran good and made it up to around 8k rpms.
Now its time for a test ride... Needed some jetting done but it was pretty solid. Vibrations were horrible though. My feet and hands vibrated so much I'd lift my feet and let go of the bars. Ended up removing the head stay brackets to see if that helped any. It got rid of probably 70% of the vibrations so it never went back on.
I noticed trans oil looked grey so I decided it was time for a rebuild, crank seals and crank bearings. New OEM rings, OEM seals, and high end bearings from a driveline shop I visit frequently. Now it's running better. Re-jetted again and it's an awesome beast.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/5/imag0086o.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/05imag0086oj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/838/imag0084ni.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/naimag0084nij)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/849/imag0085h.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/nlimag0085hj)
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I forgot to mention the original carb boot was rotted pretty bad and would interfere with the exhaust so I bought a brand new KXT250 intake off ebay.
I noticed if you're WOT for 1/4 mile or so it would want to fall on its face like it ran out of Fuel. It was fine in short stretches but anything over 1/8th mile it would run lean.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/839/imag0087zd.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/nbimag0087zdj)
So I started looking for something sturdy enough to make a intake spacer out of to level the carb position a little. I found some PVC sheet laying around in one of my cabinets so I traced the reed cage onto it and cut 2 pieces out. Then took them to the sander to make them thinner on the bottom than the top. The next part is why I buy drills with a level on them. Clamped the 2 pieces together on the bench marked the spots where the holes needed to be on the engine side flipped the pieces over and marked where they needed to be for the intake boot. Leveled my drill and started boring the holes. Put them on for test fit and it made a considerable difference. Still need to do a little fine tuning to them but they are working fine. Gonna take a little more material off the bottom to level the carb a bit more. Once it is where I need it I will have someone machine the spacer out of aluminum so it's one piece.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/6/ow8r.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/06ow8rj)
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Forgot to mention the shift lever needed to be extended 1.5" so I could get my foot between it and the footpeg.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/14/1nhy.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/0e1nhyj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/546/9t1x.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/f69t1xj)
Here are pics of the extra support pieces too.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/827/0rw0.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/mz0rw0j)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/802/dzio.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/madzioj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/819/d3v3.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/mrd3v3j)
This project is far from done. I have works shocks that came with the quad that need rebuilt, frame a-arms, and swingarm need powder coated, and seat needs reupholstered. Not sure what colors I want to go with yet. Any ideas?
Got bored and tired of not being able to ride because the snow is too deep si I built some brackets and bought some used skis off a Ski-Doo.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/35/o5hm.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/0zo5hmj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/826/uhjx.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/myuhjxj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/826/gcih.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/mygcihj)
I didn't get a pic but the sand shark paddles work way better than the sedona tires. I should have video to post when the ol lady gets home in the morning.
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I can't wait to see it.
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goatzilla in the snow ... :-D ... long time ago i´ve seen a snow-kit for quads that made it loking like a fourwheel-skidoo ...
cant wait to see this project finished... blue and white would be a great color for it, but please without the suzuki-seat cover...its a goatzilla now... :wink:
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(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/826/gcih.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/mygcihj)
that's cool!...I'd be a little confused at first if I saw that thing coming head-on rippin down a snowmobile trail.
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Goatzilla!!!!!
I like it :-D
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Goatzilla!!!!!
I like it :-D
very simple story to this name .. 6 or 7 months ago i´ve seen a suzuki ltz500 2stroke-quad and that was called "quadzilla" ...
goats quad starts to be a unique build, so it needs a unique name like this... :mrgreen:
hope that goat will like this name too... :wink:
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Lol I do like the name. I'll have my seat cover done at an upholstery shop so they can put the name in the seat cover.
Here is a couple videos for you guys. Head gasket started leaking coolant down the side of the jug by the last video. I guess Windrosa doesn't make a good head gasket. So now I need to find a good one.
Sedona tires on back. They work but not real good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc-TOz97Y5k
Sand Shark Paddles work much better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9wpie0WBN4
Head gasket started to leak and at the end started overheating
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euTRvTw-7XU&noredirect=1
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I guess Windrosa doesn't make a good head gasket. So now I need to find a good one.
Cometic :-)
You need to make your vids public... :-o
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Thanks SB. Vids are Public now.
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Thanks SB. Vids are Public now.
still sayin "Private"
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Try again. Apparently it didn't save settings the first time.
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you're good....that thing goes pretty good with the paddles...how's it doing wheelies?
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Snow is over a foot deep out in the field. It definitely needs more than 8 paddles per tire. Can't get wheelies out of it. on pavement it will break the tires loose all the way through 4th gear. I do plan to get a bunch of different size rear sprockets and play with it until it goes the way I want. My rear shock is also pretty spongy so that is another reason for no wheelies yet.
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That is really cool.
Thanks for sharing that with us.
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Lol I do like the name. I'll have my seat cover done at an upholstery shop so they can put the name in the seat cover.
Here is a couple videos for you guys. Head gasket started leaking coolant down the side of the jug by the last video. I guess Windrosa doesn't make a good head gasket. So now I need to find a good one.
Sedona tires on back. They work but not real good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc-TOz97Y5k
Sand Shark Paddles work much better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9wpie0WBN4
Head gasket started to leak and at the end started overheating
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euTRvTw-7XU&noredirect=1
thats what i thought as i spontaneous created this name... on the seat or tank: ..."goatzilla 500" 8-)
maybe there is also a little scratch on the gasket surface of cylinder or head, that needs some attention... i dont know winderosa, because not available here in germany.
in the moment i use a "athena" headgasket on my 86-kx500-engine ..works pretty well ..
found "NE super brand" gaskets by a dealer in poland . cheap and worth a try on my 87 kx250 ... i think quality has not to be always very expensive... 8-)
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I love everything about that quad. Looks like a blast in the snow
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Normally I use Athena gaskets but I had an extra top end kit laying around from the PO. The head and jug surface is flat. I check them every time they are apart. Head was properly torqued and checked frequently. I think its just a cheap paper gasket issue.
I love everything about that quad. Looks like a blast in the snow
Thank you. It is always a blast to ride. I cant wait to take it to a mx track. I wish I had a newer engine though 89-04. This 87 just doesn't have the wow factor that my 98 had. It's still better than a 250 just not as powerful as the newer ones.
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Normally I use Athena gaskets but I had an extra top end kit laying around from the PO. The head and jug surface is flat. I check them every time they are apart. Head was properly torqued and checked frequently. I think its just a cheap paper gasket issue.
I love everything about that quad. Looks like a blast in the snow
Thank you. It is always a blast to ride. I cant wait to take it to a mx track. I wish I had a newer engine though 89-04. This 87 just doesn't have the wow factor that my 98 had. It's still better than a 250 just not as powerful as the newer ones.
the 86-88 engines are also powerful, but i think the newer exhaustvalve makes the wow-effect on the 89-2004 k5-engines...
but you can update "goatzilla" anytime with the newer engine, if you find one.. :wink:
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My 98 was always pulling the front wheel up anytime the throttle was opened at all. The 87 just spins the wheel. Even in the bike frame. Someday I will find a basket case 89-04 engine for a decent price and re-build/mod it and then pull the 87 out and sell it.
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Hey goat.
I wonder if you might have two problems causing the wheel spin.
First is the drive tire diameter.
I would guess you would have to gear it to the moon with the small rear tires to keep it from being under driven.
Then, what about rotating mass of the fly wheel.
I believe the fly wheel for the 87 is a lot lighter then it is for the newer 500's.
Can you tell me the sprocket sizes front and rear are, as well as the rear tire diameter?
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Tire size is 20x11x9 for the sedonas which is what I run 99% of the time. 13t front sprocket and a 41t rear. I could care less about top end as I rarely have the room to go that fast so I gear it down for more low end. Speed calculator says it does 65.8 @ 5799 rpm with this gearing combo in 5th with max engine rpm at 7000.
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No wonder your burning the rear tires off that thing :-D
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lol Think I should up the front to a 14 and do what with the rear?
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I'd do the 14 first and leave the rear alone for now.
Fronts are cheap :-o
I might even do a 15 if I thought it was still too low..
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I'll have to dig through my sprockets and see what I have. It's nice having a bunch of different sizes that fit both quads. I have a 11t on the kdx. Dont remember what the rear is atm I think it's a 38t rear.
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Yeah, I have a few parts laying around as well :lol:
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I wish I had a lot of the parts you have just laying around :P
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K5 is faster when loaded vs revving
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My 98 was always pulling the front wheel up anytime the throttle was opened at all. The 87 just spins the wheel. Even in the bike frame. Someday I will find a basket case 89-04 engine for a decent price and re-build/mod it and then pull the 87 out and sell it.
my 86 engine makes it easily :-D ... sometimes its hard to keep the frontwheel down... but always in the middle of powerband. by hard revs it gets a little bit powerless on the top, because the rotating masses. maybe you need a little bit pipe-change for more bottom to midrange power and i think, after that you need frontweights of a tractor to hold your frontwheels on the ground... 8-)
but i have to say i use the shorter second gear of the 89-2004 k5 engines :mrgreen:
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Anyone know if the newer 90-04 flywheel and stator will fit the old 87? I'd also like to put a cheap lighting coil in as well so I can run the same LED headlights I did on the KDX quad. They work great and are brighter than any other lights I've had on any of my toys over the years.
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Anyone know if the newer 90-04 flywheel and stator will fit the old 87? I'd also like to put a cheap lighting coil in as well so I can run the same LED headlights I did on the KDX quad. They work great and are brighter than any other lights I've had on any of my toys over the years.
if you replace the complete ignition (stator and cdi) it will work like you want. the 86-88 and 89-2004 bottom ends are very similar except some little details that was changed over the years...
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That's what I thought but wanted to make sure. I'll start keeping an eye out for a newer setup on ebay. Thank you Motopunk
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That's what I thought but wanted to make sure. I'll start keeping an eye out for a newer setup on ebay. Thank you Motopunk
:-)... and with the bigger flywheel it will add a little bit torque to the engine ...
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More torque = More :-D :-D :-D
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More torque = More :-D :-D :-D
... in this case you should also think about the heavier weighted 1992-2004 crank. :-) only real diference is that the 89-2004 primary gear sits on splines instead the woodruf key version in the 85-88 engines ...
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Happen to know the weight difference between cranks?
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Happen to know the weight difference between cranks?
not sure.i have no chance for directly comparing the cranks,
but older crank has additional holes...
http://www.cmsnl.com/kawasaki-1987-c1-kx500_model11967/partslist/B6.html#results
and the newer crank is full, without holes, maybe 50 - 100 gramms heavier ...
http://www.cmsnl.com/kawasaki-1999-e11-kx500_model11991/partslist/E1320.html#results
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Guess I never payed attention. I think I'll do the ignition upgrade and see how that works. Maybe a new crank will get thrown in during the next overhaul. Thanks for your help MP
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Guess I never payed attention. I think I'll do the ignition upgrade and see how that works. Maybe a new crank will get thrown in during the next overhaul. Thanks for your help MP
in the case that the performance will feel the same with the newer ignition, you have your headlights, that you wanted... :-)
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I'm sure with the heavier flywheel, better ignition, and some gearing changes I can get this thing to run the way I want it. Even thought about a 36mm PWK I have laying on the bench. I might try it just to see how it acts. Need to get the head gasket and order some above 0 temps before anything gets done on it though.
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I'm sure with the heavier flywheel, better ignition, and some gearing changes I can get this thing to run the way I want it. Even thought about a 36mm PWK I have laying on the bench. I might try it just to see how it acts. Need to get the head gasket and order some above 0 temps before anything gets done on it though.
i think the 36 pwk would be to small for the k5-engine , but it is always worth a try... :wink:
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I finally had a chance to get GoatZilla out for a nice run at my parents last Friday. It's got a new cometic head gasket now and no issues. Running a 14T front sprocket as per SB's suggestion. 15T wont fit as it hits the swingarm. It runs pretty close to the way I want but it's still lacking the low end that my 98 had. I can live with it for now. The crank is definitely in need of balancing. Probably just going to upgrade to a newer style crank late fall. I was getting 4th gear wheelies with a little suspension preload on my part. Rear shock is starting to leak and slowly getting bouncy. I'll probably send the blown works front shocks in along with the rear to have them built for what this quad is now and my weight/riding style.
Thursday we are heading up to the race track for a couple days. First time on a track for GoatZilla and KDX4. Girlfriend is loving KDX4 she may even get on GoatZilla at the track. We will see. I'm sure we'll get video and lots of pics so I'll make sure to post some up for everyone to drool over lol. A big THANKS goes out to all that have helped with the few issues and questions I have had.