KX Riders
General => In General... => Topic started by: Danger4u2 on November 19, 2013, 04:14:16 PM
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Not a good view for young ones or the squeamish, removed from You Tube.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=06f_1381668990
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I was fine with how they handled it until they just stood around and let him bleed out. Pretty unethical law enforcement down there.
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In Oklahoma they would have been more ethical, that double tap would have been to the head.
More likely the victim (in OKC) would have shot the thief.
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That's all well and good, but to leave them there to bleed out is akin to murder and way worse then stealing a motorcycle.
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That's how it must be done.
In Holland the thief's have more rights than the victum.
Even as a policemen does this me has to go to jail here.
Dutchie
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I don't know the law in Holland, but laws like that are in place to protect us from the police. ...and it's the right thing to do :?
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I think the criminals get off way to easy, thats why we have the crime we have. do like they do in the middle east, you steal and you lose your right hand, you don't see many with both hands missing
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What happens when they get the wrong guy, shoot him and let him bleed out? Then the guy turns out too be your dad or your brother?
Could you explain how criminals get off too easy? I'm a Criminal Justice major. It'd be interesting to hear what it is you think could be changed to better the system.
It really blows my mind when people want street judges and executioners running around in complete violation of the constitution.
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I went back to review, I saw no blood pools, he appeared to be ok. The ambulance arrives in 4 minutes in. IMHO everything went well for even the armed robber. He should have been executed on the spot for trying to steal a motorcycle :-D
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Repeat offender? If they dead they dont pull that or worse again. 2 in the chest 1 in the head. The systems full of criminals that just go to prison to learn more scams. Can you really say you know a recovered criminal ? Definition of crime = violence towards others or theft. Let em go & re-institute martial law , but its gotta apply to politicians too :wink:
I have criminals in my family tree , but drugs arent covered in my definition of crime. tweaker thieves excluded of course. Speeding a crime :? its just a tax for the cops to clean up the wrecks, most "crime" is just a tax to feed the system.
I think the criminals get off way to easy, thats why we have the crime we have. do like they do in the middle east, you steal and you lose your right hand, you don't see many with both hands missing
It makes sense. The problem is the mentally challenged, everyone who rides a 500 included :-D,it leaves you with an insanity plea. & the people who werent raised right , you have to instill morals in youth as you cant teach an old dog new tricks.
It is a hard answer but , overpopulation & the strain on natural resources will sort this out soon.
Feel free to delete Motoraddor as this is covering "no politics"
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Repeat offender? If they dead they dont pull that or worse again. 2 in the chest 1 in the head. The systems full of criminals that just go to prison to learn more scams. Can you really say you know a recovered criminal ? Definition of crime = violence towards others or theft. Let em go & re-institute martial law , but its gotta apply to politicians too :wink:
I have criminals in my family tree , but drugs arent covered in my definition of crime. tweaker thieves excluded of course. Speeding a crime :? its just a tax for the cops to clean up the wrecks, most "crime" is just a tax to feed the system.
I think the criminals get off way to easy, thats why we have the crime we have. do like they do in the middle east, you steal and you lose your right hand, you don't see many with both hands missing
It makes sense. The problem is the mentally challenged, everyone who rides a 500 included :-D,it leaves you with an insanity plea. & the people who werent raised right , you have to instill morals in youth as you cant teach an old dog new tricks.
It is a hard answer but , overpopulation & the strain on natural resources will sort this out soon.
Feel free to delete Motoraddor as this is covering "no politics"
Yes, actually.
http://www.daveskillerbread.com/
Most criminals "age out" of crime. Here is a scholarly research article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3040006/
Section 5 from the Uniform Crime Report which is compiled by the FBI from police data spanning the country shows that the majority of violent crime is committed by 13-25 year old males:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/additional-ucr-publications/age_race_arrest93-01.pdf
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/ucr
Getting married, having a baby or simply getting older (25+ years) greatly reduces the chance that a person will continue to commit crime. The hard data completely destroys your "can't teach an old dogs new tricks" angle.
As for anecdotal evidence, I knew a lot of bad guys in High School and the Navy that eventually grew out of it and became pretty good people.
As for the insanity plea, it's not a legitimate recourse in the majority of states. For the ones that do allow insanity pleas, most juries don't buy it.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Insanity+Defense
...also drugs are a huge contributing factor to crime.
Edit: Many typos.
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(25+ years)
& people tend to mellow
I'll give you that, but I think your actually using a skewed scale of reference. Why is the average age of inmates 40
http://www.bop.gov/news/quick.jsp
I also believe that the older criminals are more likely to use minions , skewing the info as well. I do know a few lifers
& how many people do you see that smoke a joint or take a lude & walk farther than the fridge. Lumber industry propaganda aside , uppers do make for violent criminals, just what the government needs right?
http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2003/02/57434
I guess its just a matter of political correctness & who's cool-aid you drink
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Sorry missed one, I was trying to illustrate the "retard" factor not actual insanity pleas. Hence the retard factor / mentally damaged excuse. you have to ALLOW for that even though it gets "used" by the guilty because a retard grabs a piece of fruit & he doesnt deserve loss of limb. Just devils advocate.
truely I mean no offence either, to each is own, & I aint in charge nor do I want to be, but I do have an oppinion as well as an "a' whole
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You are comparing violent crime arrests to sentence length; apples and oranges. The facts are clear in the UFC compiled by the FBI. There is a good chance they committed their crime at a much younger age. 13-25 year olds commit the vast majority of violent crime. It's not an opinion.
I agree that marijauna does not produce violent offenders.
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The question is crime = death though, not just violent crime. The, age out, doesnt quantify the inert criminal behavior. That criminal actions are a permanant fixture in a persons makeup due to upbringing & disregard for societal standards. Hence lifers & the carrying on of criminal behavior even though your not a violent criminal anymore, because you learned ways around it in prison as well as how far you can push. Does locking a man in a box really fix him? Whats the loss, is he going to be able to teach that which he has never been taught to his offspring? Sure you need someone to take out your garbage, at what cost though.
Some how I hear Hitler int that last bit :-o
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Treat others how you wish to be treated & that doesnt have a qualifer of as long as theyve had a proper upbringing cause if they havent we'll give them a time out int a box . You get a time out in a different box though.
Someone pulls a gun? The answers right there
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But now you've moved the goal posts. If you're only talking about murder, than I'm not sure what you're saying unless you're saying all murderers should be murdered.
The video depicted a violent crime; armed robbery and grand theft auto. The guy didn't murder anyone, he was attempting to ride away on a stolen bike. A police man shot him (not saying this was right or wrong), and then allowed the owner of the bike to taunt him and take back his stuff. A police or ambulance van showed up and offered no assistance, and then a marked SUV showed up to do who knows what.
This is garbage police work that I can't believe anyone here in the States would support.
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But now you've moved the goal posts. If you're only talking about murder, than I'm not sure what you're saying unless you're saying all murderers should be murdered.
The video depicted a violent crime; armed robbery and grand theft auto. The guy didn't murder anyone, he was attempting to ride away on a stolen bike. A police man shot him (not saying this was right or wrong), and then allowed the owner of the bike to taunt him and take back his stuff. A police or ambulance van showed up and offered no assistance, and then a marked SUV showed up to do who knows what.
This is garbage police work that I can't believe anyone here in the States would support.
I think you watched a different video,,,,,kudos to those cops,,,,excellent quick response to a violent robbery.
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What did I get wrong?
I think that people have a right to a trial. I think that police should do what they can to save a person once a threat is removed. I don't think that justice should be carried out on the street unless there is an imminent threat. In the States it goes against the constitution. It is there to protect us from the police and government who will abuse that power if given the chance. ...and this is from someone working towards a career in the field.
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The officer that shot the criminal to subdue him, didn't need a trial, nor would it be reasonable to wait for a trial, to decide if the criminal with the gun violating the victim's God given right to property, at the threat of death, the victim's right to life violated. The officer sees with his own eyes, firsthand, he is not Columbo investigating with 2nd or 3rd hand information, he is a witness to the crime. Once the officer shot the criminal he did the most important thing at the scene and unarmed the violator of those crimes. The criminal was not bleeding out as you claim, the gunshot it is obvious was less painful than most of my motorcycle wrecks, therefore I have no sympathy for that criminal's "lead" reminder not to violate other people's rights in the future, and I repeat he was obviously fine. God given rights are universal so Brazil counts. Oh yes and now,,,,, it is time for a trial,,,, a speedy one for sure, so as to not violate the violent criminal's right,,, hope Brazil has a fair system.
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Yesterday the open carry law went into effect here. There are 2 sides to that coin.
Bad guys will think twice, "Lets go somewhere else, he's got a gun".
Or "Shoot him first, he's got a gun".
The cop in the video did his job.
It's simple, if you don't want to get shot, don't stick a gun in someone's face.
As I watched the video these 2 came to mind.
live by the sword, die by the sword
Be not deceived, whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
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Yes I believe criminals get off too easy, I see routinely accused of burglary getting minimimal or suspended sentences. In Montana, if you feel threatened by an agressive individual you can blow them away with no ramification, key word threatened. And if I could have found the individual that robbed me twice I would have been threatened. If there were harsher punishment, criminals may think harder about commiting a crime.
You have your beliefs and will argue to the point, I don't care I have my beliefs and thats all that matters to me you will not sway me with your Rhetoric
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I agree with TJXK, people have right for a trail.
In this case I think the cop handeld wel, it's the risk of the job for a thief. I know it's not the law, but as men it feels good.
When in holland a burglar sets foot in my house, and I give him a beating and throw in out of my house.
The thief can sue me and he gets nothing.
Dutchie
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I'm talking about what went down after he was shot. This has nothing to do with open carry, the bible, or rhetoric. From the comments on liveleak the guy died. He was shot in the leg and gut. Medical attention should have been immediate.
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I gather from the last few posts that the death penalty should be in place for robbery. :roll:
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Wow!
I never gave this issue much of a thought when I saw this video while it was still on youtube.
After viewing all these points, here is what I'm taking away from it.
This is in no way trashing or belittling anyone for their view point.
Do I think that criminals deserve a trial?
Yes.
If you catch them, by all means give them a trial.
Do I think that after a trial where the thief is convicted of theft that he deserves the death penalty?
No.
But, in this case it appears that the officer watched the gun being pulled and stuck in the face of the bike owner.
By doing this the criminal threatened the use of deadly force in the commission of a crime.
So, does the officer approach the criminal and ask him to stop and give up his weapon?
It's about risk.
The video isn't clear enough to say whether or not the officer told the criminal to stop.
I don't think he did.
It looks like he got out of his car and shot the thief.
Does the officer risk his life when clearly the criminal has little regard for the life of others?
What would you do, give the criminal a chance to pull his weapon and shoot you in the face?
Hmmmm.
Have you ever been shot at?
Have you heard the whizzing sound of a bullet flying past your person and the thwack sound it makes when it hits something right next to you?
Trust me when I say that it's a real wake up call.
So, if you were the officer, would you risk it?
Its a on the spot judgement call that I couldn't fault the officer over.
Remember, this wasn't in the US and different countries view legal matters slightly different.
Even here in the US, different states have different view points on that subject.
I have no idea what the laws are like in Brazil but, the murder rate is roughly 4 times higher then what it is in the US.
Other crimes are also similarly high.
Critical times do at times call for critical actions.
Apparently that officer didn't want to become another death statistic.
We have the luxury in this country of endless debates, trials with attorneys paid for by the state, with jurists of our peers.
Countries like Brazil where the average person makes about 13,000 per year don't have the resources for our style of legal justice.
As pointed out, the officer didn't give any first aid.
Some were upset by this and I understand their viewpoint.
But consider this.
The officer has a duty to protect the public and himself first.
Since the officer saw the crime take place he also saw that there was more then one criminal.
If he stops to give first aid without being in control of the crime scene he takes the risk of having one of the criminals return and potentially killing him or more innocent bystanders.
Also, we tend to think about how our officers are trained in the US.
Again this didn't take place in the US and we don't know what level of first responder training the first officer or any others that showed up had.
Perhaps he does the wrong thing and does more harm then good, then what?
Is the officer or his department in trouble?
Keeping both sides in mind think about this.
If that was your Child, Father, Brother, Sister, Mother, or your friend, being robbed at gun point and you saw it happen, how would you feel?
Your family's life being worth so little to the criminal that he would threaten them for some temporary monetary gain.
You can make some more money, but that life once extinguished, it's gone.
How would you feel?
I know how I would feel.
Again, I believe that criminals deserve a trial and certainly not a death sentence for theft.
But if in the commission of the crime if the gun wielding thief gets injured or even killed, who is really at fault?
We can blame the guy who owned the bike.
We can blame the officer.
We can blame the people responsible for the officers training.
We can blame the law makers in that country.
We can blame the gun manufacture.
We can blame the driver of the motorcycle that gave the criminal a ride.
We can even blame the motorcycle manufactures.
But, when you boil it all down and eliminate all but the relevant issues, what do you have?
A criminal got shot and died because he threatened to end a life of a innocent man in the commission of a crime.
While I don't like the outcome I can live with it.
Now can someone think of some cool thing to do to your bike and post it so I can copy it? :wink:
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You guys are getting me all wrong. I don't have a problem with the cop shooting the guy at all. I had a problem with his conduct afterwards. I even bolded this in an earlier post.
As far as having control of the scene, when more officers showed up nothing was done, just more standing around. I'd also argue he had piss poor control as he was letting the guy who got his bike stolen to get into the thief's pockets and taunt the wounded man right in his face.
Again, I don't know why I have to repeat this, but I don't have issues with him shooting the guy, I don't have issues with guns or protecting yourself.
Edit: I also understand that it wasn't in the USA. However it's sad to see people that live in the USA support that kind of conduct as it gives the police way to much power.
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I don't have a problem with any of it.
If someone is going to point a weapon at you he will use it. Glad he got his bike back.
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I understand what TJXK is saying and agree somewhat. After the threat is over and the criminal is down and bleeding, assistance should be rendered to keep the person from dying. The cops did a good job to stop the criminal. It appears to be a sting. The guy on the bike has a go pro and the officer shows up at just the correct time. Again I do not have a problem with the shooting are the entire process, except not helping the guy on the ground.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgLAGTBc_UU&list=FLyadsRqbcWC3G5RkCYmjXkw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgLAGTBc_UU&list=FLyadsRqbcWC3G5RkCYmjXkw) It's still on youtube. I guess it's hard to have nice things in Brazil.
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I understand what TJXK is saying and agree somewhat. After the threat is over and the criminal is down and bleeding, assistance should be rendered to keep the person from dying. The cops did a good job to stop the criminal. It appears to be a sting. The guy on the bike has a go pro and the officer shows up at just the correct time. Again I do not have a problem with the shooting are the entire process, except not helping the guy on the ground.
Right on! I don't like armed robbers either, but as one of the good guys you're supposed to do what's right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgLAGTBc_UU&list=FLyadsRqbcWC3G5RkCYmjXkw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgLAGTBc_UU&list=FLyadsRqbcWC3G5RkCYmjXkw) It's still on youtube. I guess it's hard to have nice things in Brazil.
It really is. The government and their police force is really corrupt. There is a huge disparity between the rich and poor there. They hardly have a middle class.
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I understand what TJXK is saying and agree somewhat. After the threat is over and the criminal is down and bleeding, assistance should be rendered to keep the person from dying. The cops did a good job to stop the criminal. It appears to be a sting. The guy on the bike has a go pro and the officer shows up at just the correct time. Again I do not have a problem with the shooting are the entire process, except not helping the guy on the ground.
Right on! I don't like armed robbers either, but as one of the good guys you're supposed to do what's right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgLAGTBc_UU&list=FLyadsRqbcWC3G5RkCYmjXkw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgLAGTBc_UU&list=FLyadsRqbcWC3G5RkCYmjXkw) It's still on youtube. I guess it's hard to have nice things in Brazil.
It really is. The government and their police force is really corrupt. There is a huge disparity between the rich and poor there. They hardly have a middle class.
I beleive in a reined in police force also.