KX Riders
General => In General... => Topic started by: J.ellwanger on September 14, 2013, 05:21:14 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=492CIvBZMI8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DROpPDNDpY
22yrs in Colorado, never seen this before, also
had to be the dumb one and ride my not so legal K5 from Frederick to Longmont, about 30 min drive under normal conditions, took me an hour and a half, cutting back, farm roads that were not washed out, avoiding cops,
and National Guard, hitting several deep spots where the water was to my knees riding the bike,
Finally I got to Longmont, almost got to where i needed to be, hit another flooded road, started going down the road, got a little more than half when i found the part that submerged the bike completely... before i got it shut off, it sucked water in, oops!!! :x :roll: but i knew it was part of the deal stepping out like that during flooding.
got it pulled apart, and drained all the water, but no carb cleaner, so i couldn't get the small spots.
but managed to start the bike with OUT the carb... (and oddly it didn't run away!!!) just idled, for about 3-4 secs.
reason i tell this is because now I'm curious to know if there is any MAJOR stuff to be worried about... checking the oil tomorrow, to see if anything got inside it, and its probably time for a change. but i got the water out, its fired and ran, shortly,
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oh oh this flood looks real bad.. :|
the old cz-engines and my old 2000 gasgas ec300 had all a drainplug under the crank . for the case of flooding .. 2 times it was very useful for me in enduro-races with water-rides ...opened the drain-plugs at crank an carb .looking for water in the exhaust some kicks without sparkplug to bring the big amount of waterdrops out and i could ride again after 15 minutes ... many guys there had the bikes turned upside-down for water-draining out of the sparkplug hole..looked a little bit funny :-).
in case of riding in water is important that the water-level stays lower than airbox . so the engine sucks nothing ... :-D
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yeah, it screwed up all of north Colorado, roads are gone, parks are destroyed, there was a in ground pool that has disappeared, snack bar and all, chunk of land that it sat on is gone. semi trailers logged under bridges, 40 ft trees logged into foot brides where there is usually 15' of clearance under neath it. during the rush of it you could see 8*8*6 slabs of concrete TUMBLING in the river... :-o :-o :|
and cool, i thought it was just draining water out, but few friends and I could not get it started,
pulled the spark plug, pulled the exhaust off, pulled the carb, dumped everything, dried the plug, and could not get it, I'm gonna pull carb again tomorrow and hit it with carb cleaner. and few other details, not sure what exactly, probably do more than needed... because I'm OCD or some weird disease those doctors came up with.
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it needs only one big waterdrop on the sparkplug-electrode , that it can´t ignite the gas in the cylinder...
make also sure that your ignition system is 100% dry ...
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yeah. i have pulled everything, air filter, spark plug, exhaust, gas tank, Carb, air box ruber boot,
Air Filter: still full of water, rang it out, dried, re oiled,
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a610/Jon_Ellwanger/picture009_zpsd1da3865.jpg) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/Jon_Ellwanger/media/picture009_zpsd1da3865.jpg.html)
Spark Plug: water down golden ring, (jetting is good) cleaned and dried,
kicked the engine over several times as well with plug in boot, against head to avoid ruining the system,
Exhaust: drained.
Gas tank: emptied, to check for water in the gas.
Carb: Pulled apart, sprayed,
Air Box: thoroughly cleaned as i had an 1/8 inch of dirt in the bottom, now looks new, pulled the rubber boot, and cleaned the crap out of it.
all back together, got it started, forgot to take the choke off, running real rough, had a hard time getting it to get moving then it just died. now i cant get it started, like the plug isn't even firing, hmmm
moving on to the mentioned Ignition system... how did i miss that? cant just get spark from nowhere. going to check that now!
also i was able to get one pic. then phone found rain, now no pics... kcuf
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so cleaned everything again, and got it to actually start, ROUGHLY drive through my neighbor hood,
so now I'm thinking where else could water be??
at the very bottom of the crank!??! possibly?
so now i guess I'm gonna drain oil, and pull the tank, and put it upside down for tonight.
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crap!! so worried bout getting it running i forgot about the oil....
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a610/Jon_Ellwanger/picture014_zpsb370f742.jpg) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/Jon_Ellwanger/media/picture014_zpsb370f742.jpg.html)
:oops: I see tomorrow already.
fill with oil, run it, ride it very shortly, oil change.
fill with oil, run it, ride it shortly, oil change.
fill with oil, run it, ride it shortly, oil change.
fill with oil, run it, ride it, oil change.
fill with oil, run it, ride it, oil change.
fill with oil, run it, ride it, oil change.
and just to be safe
fill with oil, run it, ride it, oil change.
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thats 2% milk, the problem is that it should be skim instead. everyone knows this. :-D
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Ha ha i like that!!!
thanks for the smile!! i needed it after these past couple days, its still raining, and getting worse over here, and my transport is down. ever see a big tree just fall because the ground is just gone?
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so its still running really rough...
like VERY rich. just boggy. like water is still some where. even after this
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a610/Jon_Ellwanger/picture016_zps1433f9ba.jpg) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/Jon_Ellwanger/media/picture016_zps1433f9ba.jpg.html)
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Did you pull the stator cover off and see if it's dry?
If it's wet get out the WD-40 and soak it down.
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Did you pull the stator cover off and see if it's dry?
If it's wet get out the WD-40 and soak it down.
thats what i said some posts earlier: "make sure that the whole ignition system is dry!! "
little private history: in spring 96 i bought my first 250 and this bike had eaten sparkplugs like candy in the first days and it felt also like to rich jetted...
first i had no idea why. then i thought to go to our local kawasaki-dealer for measuring the ignition. took off the statorcover and it was half filled with water only from cleaning by the pre-owner. after drying the bike, it ran strong and i used only one sparkplug till i sold it for my next following ktm.
and since this time i take off the stator-cover after every cleaning!!!
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...sorry Motopunk, i didn't see that.. :oops:
so the ignition looks dry, was gonna pull the fly wheel but cant bug the bolt,
so i just spray and leave it? or blow it out?
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nobody is perfekt... :wink:
good idea... pull the flywheel , blow water it out with compressor or use careful a heatgun. then let it stay open for one or two days...
also check all wires and connections also cdi and coil...
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Sorry to see that much distruction
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Watchin the news really shows some nasty stuff.
My prayers go out to all those who have suffered a loss...
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Watchin the news really shows some nasty stuff.
My prayers go out to all those who have suffered a loss...
yes... this pics let remember me the big floods here in germany in 2002 and this year... in 2002 i was at the river elbe . we filled million of sandbags and builded walls of it to hold the water out of the citys . the 2013-flood was even heavier... but not as hard like this flood in colorado at the moment...
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so i got it to Idle, and rev in the garage, but as soon as i put it in gear, and go ride, instantly bogs and, and will no longer idle or rev up even under WFO.
and after i get to the point of WFO, I have to hold it WFO, or it dies, and it only goes just above idle a thousand or 2 rev's... WFO...? :? :? :? stumped
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so i got it to run, but will no longer idle, have to keep on the gas to keep it running,
and will not rev up
I pulled the kips valve cover, and watched it as I opening the throttle, and its moving,
but it moves all the way open one time, then only opens half way... and the engine wont rev beyond half the rpm range.
Question
What could be causing it to not rev up all the way?
how do i fix it?
and maybe cause im on the side of the bike with the exhaust but i seem to be hearing a popping noise, (think its just usual noise but not sure, its with the combustion part of the cycle coming out the exhaust.)
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sometimes opened full and sometimes only half?? thats a sign, that the exhaust valves need a better look and lubricating for very soft operation if you pull the actuator by hand to full open...
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so pull the jug, and inspect them?
then will i need new gaskets, and rings?
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so pull the jug, and inspect them?
then will i need new gaskets, and rings?
first remove only the pipe and governor-cover. look into the exhaust and actuate the exhaust valve by hand. it has to be a smooth operating from close to full opening, if you pull on the little governor lever...
if you feel something is wrong, pull the cylinder and lubricate it with wd40 untill it makes a smooth operating of the exhaust valves .
i think the water had dried the oil out there and thats the reason for this problem...
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i thought maybe the water might have played a role there. but how much ...pressure? or pull should it take with my fingers, garb it hard and pull, expecting sore fingertips, or should it/they move freely with the fingers. well ill check it tomorrow? and then since you didnt answer my question about gaskets and what not, can they be reused? or just get a new set just because the ones on there are 22yrs old and you have the jug off... think I just answered my own question.
well then ill ask about the smaller gaskets i have read about people using, along with more compresion due to less room, what exactly is the gain from it? and the high compression head?
pros?
cons?
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its always good to have a set of gaskets in spare... old gaskets sometimes could be reused, but only, when it is not destroyed by pulling the jug...
if you check the exhaust valves you have to pull the rod and it has to go very smooth in and out ...
my first question is where do you use the bike?? higher compression can shorten the life of the bearings . the engine is harder to start without compression release... better not to much changings if the engine was performing very well...
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yes my engine was performing VERY well, so ill leave it alone for now, but the riding i do is mostly trails, the nasty trails,
tight rocky, straight up hill,
with very few track days,
but i did get inside the engine with a boroscope, and have a video for you guys, enjoy :wink:
in through exhaust
http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/Jon_Ellwanger/media/DIGI0114_zpsa8e6e791.mp4.html
so in this video I have a few concerns
13 secs. kips open facing the front of bike on the left side we have the kips, open, and a pinhole at back
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a610/Jon_Ellwanger/DIGI0112_zps3e127b42.jpg) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/Jon_Ellwanger/media/DIGI0112_zps3e127b42.jpg.html)
then @ 23 secs. in the video I'm not sure of if that's a chunk or port.
then my intake @ 39 secs.
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a610/Jon_Ellwanger/DIGI0103_zps2d1fa195.jpg) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/Jon_Ellwanger/media/DIGI0103_zps2d1fa195.jpg.html)
in through spark plug hole
http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/Jon_Ellwanger/media/DIGI0116_zps7e705f61.mp4.html
but as far as i can tell my kips valves are opening all the way, by hand, and has smooth operation.just encrusted with carbon. and tried checking other things like my bridges, but had difficulty controlling the camera and where it pointed
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for this terrains, where you ride you dont need more compression, because more compression not only makes more power. the engine becomes more aggressiv and makes on top a little bit less rpm than stock . this might be good for desert and deep sand, where you need to squeeze out any power the engine can make... 8-) i myself work on lowering the compression for more rideability on very short mx-tracks that we have here , because i will ride my k5 engine in the whole championchip next year . and sometimes are 4-5 hp less better to handle, as an aggressive 70hp- engine. thats the power, that a stock k5 is able to make with perfekt jetting, ignition timing and a good aftermarket-pipe...
back to your valves .looks like all is working in the right order, but you should clean it from the crusted carbon for the perfekt exhaust flow.. 8-)
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. and sometimes are 4-5 hp less better to handle, as an aggressive 70hp- engine. thats the power, that a stock k5 is able to make with perfekt jetting, ignition timing and a good aftermarket-pipe...
back to your valves .looks like all is working in the right order, but you should clean it from the crusted carbon for the perfekt exhaust flow.. 8-)
wow 70hp for just being tuned right...? hehehe uh oh. :wink:
cool, so just some wd40? and a rag to clean, should i pull the jug? just to avoid any carbon falling into the engine?
gonna have to get some gaskets
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65hp is what kawasaki says in the manual... and with this little work on the bike, that not could be done to any production bike if it was builded in japan , it could be optimized
you could close the exhaust with the piston, but better pull the cylinder for better handling...
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really didnt want to pull it, but cant do it while attached, then I got an offer for a polish, so think im gonna go ahead and have the jug polished as well, so im pulling it. but the kips seem to closing to much, to the point the outer 2 exhaust ports (farthest from the main exhaust) are open when the kips are closed, my 125 im trying to fix now had a stripped kips gear, could this be the case here? as far as not opening all the way under throttle, in the garage sitting still it revs up, but in gear it just wont do it.
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well the kips couldnt really be the case now could it, cause they operate by hand...
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well the kips couldnt really be the case now could it, cause they operate by hand...
hmmm... that sounds like the rh and lh valves are little bit misplaced ... they have to be full closed and then at full throttle up to full open ... take a look at the gears at the rh and lh valves and the pulling rod and if its worn out, helps only replacing...
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which is where im thrown off...
cause it seems like i have a restriction somewhere else...
tried to ride it today, switched mufflers to see if maybe the wet spark arrestor was holding it back, but the stock one did not change anything, once it gets on the pipe, it falls on its face... so i repacked the the S.A.
cause in the garage it will roar and rev up, but under load... not so much.
:mrgreen: so what would change the kips from where they go working under no load, to not working under load? :|
since May, my bike ran fine, and i havent pulled the engine apart at all yet, cause after i got it jetted, took it to the local shop, and they said it was in fantastic shape, so ive left it alone, ive been 75mph on the thing so far, (gps phone app) and still had more to go on, just no room. before i decided to drown the beast this month
im trying to figure out the kips, would the kips be slack with the engine off hence the exposed outer most exhaust ports?(over rotated closed position) then when idling, would the kips fully closed at idle due to rotation, and the gearing or what controls it? thought it might be difficult to see them working while bike is running and exhaust off, :lol: little loud as well, then everything coming out... to see if the closed fully while idling
but really how would i know... just watch the control lever on the outside to see if it moves out the 1/16 of an inch to close the ports? cause by pulling about 1/16 out by hand, they are fully closed, while impossible to see, could that be one thing? just thoughts running through my head, had to throw out there
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sounds at least that the kips is overrotating...i think you can find here the solution for your kips- problem :-)
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,1367.0.html
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Just a thought, do you have an ohm meter?
If so, I would test all your electrical components...
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I do not have a ohm meter somewhere, I'm trying to find one now. (my friends sleep till the crack of noon)
but as far as the kips fine tuning... that seems to be giving a better bottom end... but my bottom end is fine, idling, and going, but hit the pipe and falls down.
which ill fine tune once i get it to run all the way through the RPM's unload again.
checked compression, @ 145 lbs.
im boggled at what could be might problem... but when i did the Comp. test, i looked at my spark plug and its clean...
like no browning or anything...
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a610/Jon_Ellwanger/picture023_zpsc41f4f39.jpg) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/Jon_Ellwanger/media/picture023_zpsc41f4f39.jpg.html)
while my jetting hasnt changed at all, im running the jetting chart for ....
HOLY CRAP, maybe since the air is cooling off, im running really lean ???
since i was running for 5000-6000 @79-100 degree...... oh F*** where is the smiley bashing his head on the desk??? stupid stupid stupid...
i digress.. lol im gonna pull the jets and swap them for the cooler air jets.
so is that Stewart guy still around, i see his name, but it says guest under it. would like to get that screw for the kips fix for later on!
but, im still confused, could it be fuel starvation that causes it to fall on its face? but when i say falls on its face, i mean it Almost Rides YOU type of falls on its face. it acts like it wants to, pulls real hard for a blip, then just throws you forward like you were trying to go for 8 secs on a 1200lb. bull,
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changed jets, and spark plug, then it wouldnt fire at all, so i put the original(in the pic) back in and it fired, but still same, issues,
what else could cause it to fall on its face?
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Hey J.ellwanger.
I didn't see anywhere that you posted your bike year.
Guessing from the upside down pic that it is somewhere around 91-93...
Also, you didn't post your jetting, either the starting sizes vs the size you tried.
What is your riding altitude?
Have you pulled your reedvalve and carefully inspected it for cracks or gaps?
What plug are you running?
Do you have a service manual for the bike?
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hmmm yeah my bad, i got the jetting and tuning down, so figured it didnt, matter, just was curious if gas starvation would drop down on it
its a 91, I started off with a 155 main, and 52 pilot, 6500-9000
the jetting is 168 Main, and 58 pilot,
i know thats for cold weather, but i ride the mountains mostly between 6500-9000 and its already been down to the 40's in the city,
I am running a NGK B8EG S.P.
and i have not pulled anything off the engine besides carb, and exhaust, kips lever cover, and i do have a manual, but im having a hard time figuring out... through reading, checked all the basics that it lists, but i have a ghost robbing my pipe.
checked the electrical, cleaned all the connections, and still falling on its face, could a leak around the gaskets cause it to fall over? cause it almost threw my dad ( 200lbs,) over the bars, so it wants to launch, but just wont get on the pipe.
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Did you check the float bowl level?
The wrong setting will give you fits...
Also, looking at the electrical and cleaning it won't tell you if it's good.
Get your buddies ohm meter and use the specs in your manual to check it.
It takes minutes to do and can eliminate a lot of guessing and head scratching.
If you get your float set correctly, and verify the electrical readings, then I would check your reeds.
If they are good I would look for air leaks.
A leak down tester (Not a compression tester) will tell you a lot..
I haven't looked into your jetting or plug but I'm sure someone on here knows..
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im getting parts to be able to check the float level, couldnt tell you if that has changed at all,
and i did test the elec. i had my dad use the meter as im not that competent with the thing yet, but he said its with in the manual specs,
i will get that float set as soon as i can,i will pull the reeds tomorrow to see how they look, and as far as leak down test, i assume im gonna need a tool from kawi? ill read my manual to find out.
and i based my jetting off the chart, for 79-100 degrees, and 5000-6000' and its crisp and clean and responsive, or was at least,
but now same elev. but at the 40 degree range due to winter coming on, but still responsive parked in neutral.
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When you check your reeds make sure that the pedals are laying flat on the reed block.
If there is any gaps disassemble it and ultra clean it.
If after assembling it and there is still gaps, get a new one.
Make sure there are no cracks or chipped edges.
Check here on making a leak down tester.
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,11928.0.html (http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,11928.0.html)
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good idea to check the reeds. just dont thought of it :wink:...with damaged reeds it sounds like it soak to much gas...
how was your bike running, before you dropped it into in the flood-water?? have you also cleaned the airfilter??
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my bike was running like it was new off the show room floor,
started on first kick every time!
put it in gear, and then soon be wondering where the road went, as your pointed towards the sky.
so damaged reeds, it would soak up gas? like pull to much through the cage?
and i have completely cleaned the air filter, and oiled it again.
I'm gonna pull the reed cage to day,
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(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a610/Jon_Ellwanger/picture024_zps1f9eb140.jpg) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/Jon_Ellwanger/media/picture024_zps1f9eb140.jpg.html)
i dont see how the reed could be my issue? :roll:
um soo..... do i need to pull motor and search for the broken reed? or would that have shattered and blown out?
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I'm sure it's long gone by now :-D
At least you have a good idea of the problem now and it's a easy, relatively cheap fix..
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lol yeah im looking at reeds on Ebay now,
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(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a610/Jon_Ellwanger/picture024_zps1f9eb140.jpg) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/Jon_Ellwanger/media/picture024_zps1f9eb140.jpg.html)
i dont see how the reed could be my issue? :roll:
um soo..... do i need to pull motor and search for the broken reed? or would that have shattered and blown out?
we have it found .. :-) i had my best experience with boesen dual stage reeds... you should look for them (kx500 86-2004 and kx250 ´83-´96 have all the same reeds )
""i dont see how the reed could be my issue? "" the reeds are closed and opened by the underpressure and over-pressure that the piston makes on the way up and down in the cylinder. if the reeds are broken or damaged in any way and so not able to close, the engine can make pressure back to the carb up to the airfilter and so it doesnt work properly..
i could slap myself left and right, that i dont thought of the reeds... but the man of steele was here and rescued the world again... :wink:
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As usual the Man of Steel solved the problem like shooting a shot gun...
The more lead in the air the more likely I'll be to hit a target :-D
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As usual the Man of Steel solved the problem like shooting a shot gun...
The more lead in the air the more likely I'll be to hit a target :-D
you need no shot gun, you have your laser-eyes... thats why i couldnt see the reeds without the x-ray-funktion.. 8-)
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:-D
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(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a610/Jon_Ellwanger/picture024_zps1f9eb140.jpg) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/Jon_Ellwanger/media/picture024_zps1f9eb140.jpg.html)
i dont see how the reed could be my issue? :roll:
um soo..... do i need to pull motor and search for the broken reed? or would that have shattered and blown out?
we have it found .. :-) i had my best experience with boesen dual stage reeds... you should look for them (kx500 86-2004 and kx250 ´83-´96 have all the same reeds )
""i dont see how the reed could be my issue? "" the reeds are closed and opened by the underpressure and over-pressure that the piston makes on the way up and down in the cylinder. if the reeds are broken or damaged in any way and so not able to close, the engine can make pressure back to the carb up to the airfilter and so it doesnt work properly..
my bad, i was being sarcastic, lol, im still curving my knowledge from car engine with computers, back to carb. and over to 2stroke, completely forgot the reeds, thanks guys!
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WOO HOO!! i got my power back!!
and d**n its scary!
and riding in 38 degree weather, isnt very fun everything gets COLD QUICK
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nice to hear it... :-D ...
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:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
stoked about it!!
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now you can throw the bike again into the water... :evil: :-D :-D
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Or.... You can ride it in to the water again :evil: :-D :-o
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Or.... You can ride it in to the water again :evil: :-D :-o
...no much difference but same finish.. a 500cc-waterpump :wink:
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It gives water cooled a whole new meaning :lol:
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lol im looking at making a custom Snorkel,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_N311pb5Tk
BIG hole cut right in the back end end the seat, and a god Awful tube coming out through, coming up another foot or so,
with a K&N air filter on it :lol: :lol:
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No snorkel just ride faster
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0nkL1pScXQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYB7DYWI4G8
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It gives water cooled a whole new meaning :lol:
the ultimate underwater-bike... :-D
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Great, now im gonna fishing for bikes every weekend now1!!!!
Lol I never seen myth busters do that! I'm surprised at Jamie for running it through the water, but seen that done, just never tried it. Obviously.