KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Steel Frame Conversion (SFC) => Topic started by: kranker1450 on August 07, 2013, 01:15:33 PM
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Okay i am going to pick up the 2000 KX250 donor bike this weekend for the k5 conversion. I am looking at a early 90's k5. It is all there but rough. Runs but will need a rebuild. What would be a reasonable price for the K5. I am sure I will have alot more questions as i go but so please bare with me. i have been reading alot on here. can you get the pipe from service honda or direct from FMF?
Thanks everyone.
I will get some pics of the donor bike after i pick it up.
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... better you buy a cr500 pipe from fmf or pro circuit and modify it a little bit for the kx... thats the only diference what the service-kawasaki-pipe is. the pipes are exlusive made by fmf, only for service-kawasaki. and its very hard to get one of this expensive exhausts. i´ve tried it at the european importeur for service-kawasaki . 380,- € only for the pipe...not in stock and i should wait 3 months!?! :|
so i bought a cheap used cr500 pipe and new pro-circuit-304-silencer, cut off the big exhaust-bushing off an old 250-pipe and after little mashining and welding ... voila... runs and sound great. my costs for complete exhaust € 200,- :-)
and in the end my coversion looks like an oem-bike . :wink:
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Thanks Moto for the info! Any year honda pipe i should look for? I will head that route.
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any cr500 pipe ´1989-2001 will work ... :-)
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Thanks again Moto! From what i have been reading sounds like the cr silencer also. When modifing the pipe do you just need to change out the end that goes into the cylinder for the kx one? Plus alittle pushing and pulling i would expect.
Thanks again
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yes... complete honda-exhaust with all needed mods to fit...
here you can see my ´93-coversion some steps you could do also on your bike... http://der-motopunk.de.tl/projekt-kx500-.htm
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Awesome , Thanks Moto for the link!
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:-D :-D... cant wait to see some pics of your project...
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I will get some posted of the donor 250. :-D I picked it up sat. 2000 kx250 blown motor. for $500. Not to bad. Plus i have a 2001 kx250 so all my parts will interchange between the 2 making having extra parts on hand easier. :-D I am just waiting on the k5 too see if i can get it for what i can pay.
Thanks again for the help i am sure i will be asking for more.
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I will get some posted of the donor 250. :-D I picked it up sat. 2000 kx250 blown motor. for $500. Not to bad. Plus i have a 2001 kx250 so all my parts will interchange between the 2 making having extra parts on hand easier. :-D I am just waiting on the k5 too see if i can get it for what i can pay.
Thanks again for the help i am sure i will be asking for more.
and you can also build a good 250.. ends up with 2 identic bikes 250 and 500... 8-)
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Yeah the 01 250 is what i ride now it is pretty fresh with new top end and suspension etc. I will be like a factory rider only with 13yr old bikes. lol :mrgreen:
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Okay so a little back ground first. i stopped racing motocross 20 years ago. At that time i was racing a 93 KX500. My wife at the time didnt like the risk and we just bought a house and were starting a family so racing and the K5 went. 20 Yrs later i am divorced and the kids are doing well so i thought it was time i started riding again. Dont want a 4 stroke so i bought a 2001 kKX250 gave it some love and have been riding it since May. Man have i missed riding dirt bikes. I really wished i wouldnt have waited 20 yrs to start back up. Here is the 01 KX250 i have been riding.
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/kx55_zps220b95c2.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/kx55_zps220b95c2.jpg.html)
It has been really fun to ride and i have been having a blast but, I really miss the bark of the K5. So i found this place and thought i would try to do my own conversion. I really like the 99-2001 KX250 chassis. So i figured that is the chassis i would use plus then i would have 2 of the same yr chassis so they would share all of the parts minus motors.
Here is the donor bike i just bought this saturday. i picked it up for $500 it is a 2000 KX250 that has a blown motor but everything else is there and in pretty good shape.
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/freestyle_zps3e523e44.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/freestyle_zps3e523e44.jpg.html)
Now all i need is the K5. lol
Thanks for all of the info.
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:-D... thats what i was also called on race last weekend as i rode my ´87 with the 360cc engine to the 3.place in the evo-cup...
in spring i sold my good old ´97 kx250 that i rode 11 years. and i can say, it needs not the newest bike. only a good rider to ride it realy fast ... 8-)
now i own a restored and light modified ´83 kx250, ´87 kx250 and my just from ebay-parts and new spareparts builded kx500sf conversion in the ´93 kx 250-chassis, what i started only with a frame. because i ever wanted a k5,( but i had not enough money in 2003 to buy one of the last european models) ...all bikes run very smooth and powerful... :mrgreen:
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Okay so a little back ground first. i stopped racing motocross 20 years ago. At that time i was racing a 93 KX500. My wife at the time didnt like the risk and we just bought a house and were starting a family so racing and the K5 went. 20 Yrs later i am divorced and the kids are doing well so i thought it was time i started riding again. Dont want a 4 stroke so i bought a 2001 kKX250 gave it some love and have been riding it since May. Man have i missed riding dirt bikes. I really wished i wouldnt have waited 20 yrs to start back up. Here is the 01 KX250 i have been riding.
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/kx55_zps220b95c2.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/kx55_zps220b95c2.jpg.html)
It has been really fun to ride and i have been having a blast but, I really miss the bark of the K5. So i found this place and thought i would try to do my own conversion. I really like the 99-2001 KX250 chassis. So i figured that is the chassis i would use plus then i would have 2 of the same yr chassis so they would share all of the parts minus motors.
Here is the donor bike i just bought this saturday. i picked it up for $500 it is a 2000 KX250 that has a blown motor but everything else is there and in pretty good shape.
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/freestyle_zps3e523e44.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/freestyle_zps3e523e44.jpg.html)
Now all i need is the K5. lol
Thanks for all of the info.
both bikes are in real good shape at the first look... i say, safe the 2000 kx250-engine and also fresh them up for your spares.. the time will come, when its getting hard to find oem-parts for the 2001... :wink:
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Picked up a 1990 K5. It is suppose to have a fresh topend with about 5 hours on it. It runs pretty well needs some carb work and jetting. Has plenty of compression. Rest of it is pretty rough. I think it was one of those where he just did what he had to to keep it running not much else. I am going to need a new carb intake boot. I have read that the KDX one works better for the conversion. Is there a paticular year that works best. Or what about a boyseen rad valve for the 500. I paln on using the 2000 KX250 airbox. Over all I am happy with the purchase though and I think it will make a good donor. Plus i will give it much love. It just feel better to have a K5 again. 8-)
Thanks for looking and the help.
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/kx500_zps78e8bd6e.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/kx500_zps78e8bd6e.jpg.html)
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Well I got a little farther on the build or i guess tear down at this point. I got the the donor frame all disassembled at this point.I need to power was everything to get it cleaned up.Sorry about the blurry pics all i have is my phone.
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/frame_zpsa37521d4.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/frame_zpsa37521d4.jpg.html)
I got the motor out of the donor k5. Looked into the exhaust port and it looked real nice in there. Still has the cross hatch on the cylinder walls. Looks pretty fresh. Here is a pic of the K5 next to the kx250 motor.
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/kx500motor_zps94d0066f.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/kx500motor_zps94d0066f.jpg.html)
Know I need to get a 43/64 drill bit.
what is the best way of cleaning the motor with out tearing it apart?
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first water, soap, a hard brush and the time it needs... :wink: next step an good engine cleaner for cars... :-)
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That looks like a steel kickstarter on the k5 motor, wonder what it's off of
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That looks like a steel kickstarter on the k5 motor, wonder what it's off of
this steel kickers were used on the aircooled kx 420´s and 500´s . i use also a steel kicker , since i broke 2 aluminium-kickers :|
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Thanks for the tips guys. :-D It is a steel kicker and very loose! lol
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Just a little update. I have been gathering part for the conversion. I have not been able to work on the conversion due to the winter and the cold. My shop does not have heat in it so I haven't been able to work on it. I have not given up on it. Just need some warm weather.
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that's what dining room tables are for!....I've assembled a few motors on my coffee table while watching tv.
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LOL. fortunately the motor is together. I need to do the welding and fabricating of the mounts and the exhaust. My welder is a little heavy to be taken into the house. lol
I have been spending the downtime collecting parts for it. I have almost everything I need/want. I have bought some things from fellow members one of which was Sandblaster and would just like to say he is a great guy and would highly recommend purchasing parts from him.
The plan is to get everything made and fitted and then assemble it. Ride it for a few weeks a month and the tear it down and powder coat everything after no more welding and grinding is needed. assemble with mostly stock stuff and save the goodies for after the frame gets powdercoated.
Thanks Tom
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I just noticed how neat and organized your work area is.
That stinks :-P
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X2!!! Way too clean and roomy! Looks like you are moving along nicely.
On the cleaning stuff: I hit an auto parts store and bought two cans of spray on cleaner to try. One ZEP product and don't remember (Gunk?) what the other was. Both sprayed on with a hand operated squirter and after a few minutes hosed off with water. The grease, oil and crud just melted off using either one though they had different ingredients. Pretty amazing. Keep the pics coming of the project! Looks good!
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lol, I have a habit of miss placing things, so if the shop gets to messy I spend more time looking for tools and parts than working. I am going to soda blast everything when I make a soda blaster. lol. One more thing on my to-do list. It is getting pretty long since I have had all winter to add to it and not been able to remove anything. I have been spending money on tools and parts!!! That has been fun.
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Just make sure all the holes on the engine are sealed up tight before you soda blast. Wouldn't want that stuff inside the engine.
I have tried that Engine degreaser gel and it sucks and is really messy. I think Gunk makes it. Their other degreasers work pretty well though.
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ok, so I have not been able to do any work to the K5 due to the weather still. I thought I would atleast post a pic of some of the parts I have been gathering for it. Enjoy!!
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/parts_zps4ed8c0c8.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/parts_zps4ed8c0c8.jpg.html)
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Looks like a great start to a conversion. I see a lot of really nice parts in there. I especially like the NON chrome pipe. I'm not a fan of chrome or super shiny parts. Takes too much elbow grease to keep them shiny lol.
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Those works pipes are a chore to keep rust off. Yes, Sandblaster is a GREAT source for parts plus quick shipping. Have not met but seems like a GREAT guy too.
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thanks guys. I love the natural pipes so much more than the chrome ones. They are more work but in my opinion they look much better. I am a fan of the old school works bikes with the hand made pipes. That is the look I am going after. That is why I went with the gold rims to plus everyone has black ones. lol Sandblaster is a great guy and awesome too deal with. I also have to give props to alward25 for the killer price and service on the warp9 wheels. They are so sick! I can not wait to et them on!
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I have a couple questions on the 99-02 conversions. First, when fitting the crossover hose from the radiator to radiator I know you grind down the pinch weld to gain room. I was wondering if anyone wished they would have notched the frame slightly to gain more room? Here is a pic of the area I am talking about. The area I am talking about is marked "smooth" in the pic.
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/20140224_180835_zps1cb25891.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/20140224_180835_zps1cb25891.jpg.html)
The next question is for anyone who has used the JFab headstay kit. When putting it on I can not figure out anyway to get this thing to line up. It is a 2000 kx250 frame with a 90 k5 motor. It looks to be way off or I am really missing something easy. Here is a pic of what I am talking about. You can see the bracket actually touches the headstay mount on the bottom. This is after flipping the bracket upside down to gain the extra room. Also the piece sitting on the bracket in the fore ground is the rest of the bracket kit that is needed to be welded on to mount to the bracket. There are 2 of these pieces. I must be really missing something. I have asked JFab to take a look at the pics to help me out. I would like to say that I am in no way bashing the quality or workmanship of this kit. I am missing something and just put this out here for help nothing more. I think this is a quality kit and I am very happy with the purchase.
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/20140224_181049_zpsa13ec083.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/20140224_181049_zpsa13ec083.jpg.html)
Here is a pick of the over all motor in the chassis so you can get an idea of how it is setting. It is bolted through the swing arm and the lower mount lined right up. It has a bolt through it and the front mount has been cut off and tack welded in the current location to work with the rest of them. Thanks for looking.
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/motorside_zps72ea0ad7.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/motorside_zps72ea0ad7.jpg.html)
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the j-fab headstay kit is a cool thing... but you have to make your own brackets. the kx250 headstay-brackets could not used or modified to the kx500 engine. the k5 engine sits closer to the mounts in the frame.
which radiators do you want to use? the stock 250-rads would work with only cutting the tube to the right length, that goes to the cylinder on the left side .
you should contact don46 . he had made several of this 99-2002 frame conversions.. maybe he could help you a little bit forward...
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Just spoke to JFab. He cleared everything up. Great guy. As i thought and as Motopunk said i need to make my own bracket. No biggie, just thought i was missing something else.
Moto: I am planning on using the 250 rads. They will fit with just the grinding of the pinch weld with a little clearance. Was just curious if anyone wish they would have notched the frame afterwords for more clearance. Figured now is the time instead of later.
Thanks
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Just spoke to JFab. He cleared everything up. Great guy. As i thought and as Motopunk said i need to make my own bracket. No biggie, just thought i was missing something else.
Moto: I am planning on using the 250 rads. They will fit with just the grinding of the pinch weld with a little clearance. Was just curious if anyone wish they would have notched the frame afterwords for more clearance. Figured now is the time instead of later.
Thanks
how was the fitting before with the 250 engine? i do not understand the reason for grinding on the frame, because this are the rads, made for this frame..
mounting with washers to get the rads a little bit away from the frame is in my eyes a better option. 2. option : cut off the rad mounts and lift the rads up u little bit , but watch out, that the fork legs couldn´t touch them by full turn of the handlebar.
i have an 86 k5 engine in a 93 250 frame with k5 rads..because the bike is completely assembled from used ebay-parts and new spareparts. so i could do it without any modifying to the 90-93 paralell cooling system. the k5-rads did also fit perfectly to the 93 kx250 frame. all i had to do was made little brackets to get them a little bit forward on the upper side to find the clearance for the big crosstube between tank and frame.
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moto: With the k5 motor the gap between the cylinder is greatly reduced. If the weld is not ground down I am afraid that the hose would chaff and eventually wear a hole in it. I will be moving the lower rad mount forward slightly to gain some clearance for the hose to cylinder which will push it into the weld on the front. This is why I need to remove the seem. Hope that makes sense. With the 250 motor in it there is plenty of room between the head and the frame for the hose to have ample clearance.
Thanks Tom
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moto: With the k5 motor the gap between the cylinder is greatly reduced. If the weld is not ground down I am afraid that the hose would chaff and eventually wear a hole in it. I will be moving the lower rad mount forward slightly to gain some clearance for the hose to cylinder which will push it into the weld on the front. This is why I need to remove the seem. Hope that makes sense. With the 250 motor in it there is plenty of room between the head and the frame for the hose to have ample clearance.
Thanks Tom
ok.. now i see what your thinking is ... some times its hard only imagine some things without seeing the parts directly...
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ok, it has been awhile and I do have some progress on the 500. I have got the pipe all modified and mounted to the bike. I have also got all of the mounts tacked in for the pipe. Got the headstay removed from the stock head. here is a pic of the pipe mounted on the bike and the silencer in its final position.
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/500pipe_zps4818b19b.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/500pipe_zps4818b19b.jpg.html)
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Lookin real good.
Thanks for the update..
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I smoothed the area for the hose and put another piece of rubber in fact I think it was a heavy duty heat shrink in the area that rubbed to pervent wear. I too like the "works" pipe look. always used those on our race bikes as well, wd-40 after every wash and if they looke a little ratty a little naval jelly and back to the works look. I really liked the 99-02 conversion it was by far the easiest to do and the frames are plentiful. I think the only difficult part was the tank, warming and reshaping to clear everything. looks good
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Thanks Blaster and Don. I have always used wd40 and a scotchbrite pad in the past with good results. Hopefully I will get a little farther on it this weekend. I had to indent the pipe a little more than i wanted to so it would "fit" like i wanted to. I spoke to a good friend about it and he assured me that i probably wouldn't even notice the difference in power and just laughed. :lol:
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I got the frame off to powder coat. should have it back tomorrow. will start putting it all together. I will get some more pics for you then. Here is a pic of the wheels ready to be put on. Thanks for looking.
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/20140824_172010_zps7fcb85f5.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/20140824_172010_zps7fcb85f5.jpg.html)
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I got the Parts back from powder coat. Assembly has begun! I am pleased with the powdercoat, i think it turned out well. Here is a pic of the frame. Sitting on the table you can also see the dog bones,axle blocks and part of the triple trees. And yes the nasty hose on the on the side of the head will be replaced with a new blue silicon one. lol..Thanks!
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/Mobile%20Uploads/frame_zps574a073b.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/Mobile%20Uploads/frame_zps574a073b.jpg.html)
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that's gonna look awesome with the gold wheels and black frame.
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Thanks Foxx! I am slowly getting it put back together. here is the latest.
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/front_zpscc4aec8e.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/front_zpscc4aec8e.jpg.html)
I do have a question for those that have done this conversion before. What did you do about the throttle cable routing out of the top of the carb? just heat and remold the tank? I thought I read something about a 125 carb top? here is a pick of what I am talking about.
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/carb_zps4ee9c740.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/carb_zps4ee9c740.jpg.html)
Thanks again!
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Here are the latest pics. slowly but I am getting there. The dog bones and the axle block are also powder coated to match the triples. Hard to see in the lighting.Thanks for looking.
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/rside_zpscdc3f281.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/rside_zpscdc3f281.jpg.html)
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/side_zps2bde4624.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/side_zps2bde4624.jpg.html)
Love the gold wheels!
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got a little further on the k5. Got the new fastway pegs mounted and also the ne KX450F brake lever put on.
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/brakepedal_zps5d10fbcf.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/brakepedal_zps5d10fbcf.jpg.html)
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well it is finally finished!
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/kx500l_zpsf249fac1.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/kx500l_zpsf249fac1.jpg.html)
(http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/kranker1450/kx500r_zps9deab344.jpg) (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kranker1450/media/kx500r_zps9deab344.jpg.html)
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nice!...it's got a very clean look, I knew it would look good with the gold wheels/hubs.
have you had a chance to ride it much yet?
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This is one of the best looking bikes I've ever seen. Beautiful job! Which pegs are you using and what model brake lever did u mount?
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the steel frame 250f pegs even the 06 pegs fit and i think the 06 brake pedal fits too. Hope I am remembering it right :wink:
The pegs are Fastway Evo 3
the brake pedal is a Tusk (Rocky Mountain MC)
Bike looks great! Where did you get the sweet wheels?
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Are any pegs lower than the stock kx250 pegs? I've been looking for an extra bit of legroom on my 2000 kx250. An extra 5-10mm lower pegs would help immensely.
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the way they mount can be high or low in the peg mount, i think you could get them a little lower, let me do a test tomorrow.
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Ride report?
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well it is finally finished!
I didn't post it, but I see you've got it listed on Craigslist....selling it so soon? :-o :?
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Hey guys.
It is a blast to ride. I have only got to ride it about 2hrs though getting it jetted in. Still a little fat. I have had a personal issue come up that need my full attention and now unfortunately money. So I need to sell it. Thanks for all of the help with this.
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sorry to hear that kranker!...I hope whatever the cause for you having to sell it isn't too serious, and gets resolved quickly!...good luck! :-)
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Hey guys.
It is a blast to ride. I have only got to ride it about 2hrs though getting it jetted in. Still a little fat. I have had a personal issue come up that need my full attention and now unfortunately money. So I need to sell it. Thanks for all of the help with this.
i hope your personal issues are not to bad... if i were you, i would try to keep the 500 and sell the 250 ...a 250 is always easier to get on the market, if the time comes back, that you want to have 2 bikes...
this green k5-diamond needs only graphics (maybe monster graphics? ) to the finish :wink: