KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: Rowdy-Yates on October 08, 2004, 01:20:34 AM
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What 2-Stroke oil do you guys use? I use Blenzall 32/1. I was reading a diff forum and a guy was saying not to use a castor based oil. Unless you like to rebuild your engine a lot. Why would he say that?
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I've always used Maxum 927 with great luck?
Great question though? I would like to know what others are useing too!!!
:)
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BTW; I run 40:1 :lol:
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Just started a few months back, 50:1 with Bel-Ray MC1. I was running 32:1 with Klotz Supertech (cylinder and PV's are clean as a whistle (almost)) which is 20% castor and never had any problems.
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Mobil 1 MX2T @ 40:1. But for the sake of the newly arriving KX85, I'll probably change the mix @ 32:1.
Anyone have any troubles with MX2T?
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Maxima 927
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Maxima Super-M at 40:1.
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Maxima Super-M at 40:1.
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Bel Ray H1R 40:1
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I raced for years with MC1 at 85:1. I am running H1R at 60:1 right now but am thinking of returning to MC1 at 60:1 since I think the H1R smokes too much. Cam.
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85 to 1 why not use straight gas?
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I started using MC1 because Cam recommended it and I couldn't be more happy with it. Great stuff.
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Yamalube2-R @40:1
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Hmmm Bel Ray MC1 i think that is what i used 10+ years ago. Post a pic. does the bottle have blue writing?
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R-Y,
Yeah 85:1 used to be the recommended ratio for MC1 on the bottle. There is another thread in here with a similar topic where I this explained further. I quit using the 32:1 type rich ratios when synthetic oil came out. No oil failures since! Hey, my yamaha outboard uses 100:1. Remember that leaner ratios (as long as there is enough oil to lubricate properly) makes your bike run cooler since oil burns hotter than gas. MC1 is the white bottle with blue writting, good stuff. My '92 still has the original top end and I am just now noticing a minor decrease in compression (winter rebuild time). I think most of the newer synthetic oils nowdays are pretty good. Just have to pick a good one and stick with it. MC1 is my choice. Cam.
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I have been using Yamalube 2-R and adding Yamaha's ring free. Mixing fuel/oil at 32:1. You should try the ring free regardless of oil brand. Your top end will be cardon free. Ring free not only cleans but keeps carbon from building up.
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Motul-full synthetic 40:1
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32:1 makes good power.
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i tested dynoed the best and power valves were cleanest with belray h1r at .50 to 1
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That's nice to know, although my favorite recipe is the MC-1 at 60:1. The H1R seemed to give me more spooge, but I only tried it for a season before I went back to MC-1. Cam.
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I used Golden Spectro 50:1 the first year I had my 500, then after running Maxima 927 in my 250 I carried it over and am using the Maxima 927 32:1 in my 500 now. I actually think my bike is running cleaner with the Maxima stuff. I love the smell of the 927 too, but it doesn't compare to the I-pone S2 I used in my 250 for a little while that smelled like strawberries!!! :-D :-D
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i run amsoil dominator at 50:1 and it seems great every time i have the pipe off (every ride due to pipe mounts broken) i look at the piston and cyl. and they always have looked super clean.
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I use maxima synthetic @ 44:1. I know 50:1 would be better but I am a wuss and do need the tiny power gain that would result. Besides who doesnt like the smell of premix in the morning?
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i run bel-ray mc-1 @ 50:1 with the best fuel i can get my hands on (premium). i'd hate to run much more oil than that for fear of gunking up the power valve. anyone ever tried aviation fuel in their k5? i've wondered about it but the heat may be too high, not sure though. stewart, cam, you guys ever tried it? thanks, MADDOGGY
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i don t run av gas because it s formulated for high altitude at a fix throttle setting has diffrent additives than the two stroke works best with try track tech line or vp line of fuels both great quilty
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Maddoggy,
I used to use Avgas(100/120) mixed 50/50 with unleaded regular in the old days when race gas was not available. I also had a cheap source and got it in 45 gal drums. It worked very well and gave a large increase in throttle response - not sure how much true hp it added. Now days there is so much excellent race gas available that I doubt using avgas in any form is worth it. A can of VP likely works better and is cheaper. I'm lucky since I get 94 at my local pump so my KX never sees race gas. Maybe it should! Cam.
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hey thanks stewart and cam, i will be looking into the vp fuel. i'm taking a trip to st. anthony id. in june or july and would love the extra boost. any extra horsepower is great in the sand. MADDOGGY
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i run bel-ray mc-1 @ 50:1 with the best fuel i can get my hands on (premium). i'd hate to run much more oil than that for fear of gunking up the power valve....maddoggy
You know 50:1 is -more oil to fuel- than 85:1? Just checking, no need to answer.
As far as St. Anthony Dunes, Idaho. You will be up around 5000 feet which means less power. June is good and July is hotter, less power also. If you have higher comp or have done some other engine mods you will notice a significant loss of power. Make sure to take some jets with you and also move the clip on the needle all the way to the top for crisper throttle response off idle (needle seating all the way in the needle jet). Main jet should go down around 10-12 pts from where you are if you are around 1000 feet now. I would also suggest mixing 50/50 with some leaded race gas (c-12) to get around 100 octane, you will be amazed, but may just get you back to normal feeling at 5000 feet.
Alot of the real riders up there on ATV 450's and 500's run nitrous foggers to make up for the loss of O2.
Sly
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I alway use Super Techniplate oil and at a ratio of 44:1. 32:1 always fouled plugs on cold starts for some reason. I would be leary of straight VP gas. Alot of guys are using race fuels and really lean mixtures. Their bikes smell great , but need tuned more often. Don't forget these guys are rebuilding every month, not going for longevity. You would need to re-jet and, flush tank and re-tune. I mix Premium pump gas and Turbo blue in a 1 part race fuel to 2 parts pump gas mix (Still 44:1) for the rare occasion I want to change things up. I think its important to keep fuel types and ratios the same, for the sake of less tuning issues, and longer life of the piston and cylinder.
Good Luck and have fun out there.
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sly, but of course the 85:1 would be more fuel to oil. however i just can't bring myself to lean out the mixture more than 50:1. i just don't like burning down a piston. i also live @ around 4000 ft already and won't notice alot of change in performance there. a little due to heat and slight altitude change but not much. i will take a tuning kit so i can correct any issues that i may experience. went there last year on 4 wheels but the k5 this year should be awesome. :-P. i may use some 100 oct. vp fuel available at rexburg motorsports close to st. anthony's. $50.00 per 5 gal. so i'll have to sneek that one past the boss er...um...i mean my wife.
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I am really surprised no one has brought up the Amsoil 100:1 stuff! I have a case of it any I was planning on mixing it 80:1. Paul says he runs it at 100:1 with no problems! I just can' bring myself to run it that thin.
Alan :-o :-o :? :? :roll:
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I run Amsoil Dominator at 32:1.
On the subject of AVgas. I was told by a guy years ago not to run AVgas in bikes beause they rev higher than the fuel was designed to run. I am a Private Pilot and know for a fact that no aircraft engine I've flown has a useful rpm range higher than 3000. Can't put any truth to it because I'm not a fuel engineer, sure would be nice to know though.
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I was referring to, AMSOIL Saber Professional 100
http://www.syntheticoilnlubes.com/amsoil_2_cycle_premix_oil.html
Yep, another old pilot here also! :-D
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That's like 1/3 the price I pay now! I may pick some up and give it a try. Do you guys think at 100:1 it will lube as well as say Castor 927 at 32:1? If so, that's darn cheap!
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i ran my racing sled at 100:1 with that amsoil and the pistons and crank looked good at 10,500 rpm.
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I like my Golden spectro at 40:1. I've run it for years in my KDX, and now my K5...have yet to foul a plug on it.
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I run maxima Super-m at 40:1
I also run avgas and have since 2000 when i got my 500. Runs great and ZERO problems.
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Klotz r50 at 32 to 1 . I share the gas with my boys yz85 and ktm65. I mix it at 32 to 1 for the small bikes. My 500 runs great. Stock needle second clip, 48 pilot and 165 main , pro circuit 296 sil. fmf pipe,reed spacer, 3800 feet . I could even get away with a 162 main . I like it a little rich. The 296 really changes what jet the bike wants.
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I'm running Klotz R50 at 42:1 (3oz/gal) and I love it. Smells different, burns super clean. No spooge at all, just a dry, light brown dust on the exhaust. Good stuff.
:mrgreen:
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Me too. Running Klotz R50 and premium gasoline at 50:1. Good gas, good oil, and excellent air filter maintenance has kept the top end rebuilds on the 99 K5 to 0.
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So first things first,
(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/3741/threadnecromancyns1ja0.jpg)
Now that that's over with, there are a lot of newer people around. What is everyone using for 2t oil now, and ratio?
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Redline Two-Stroke Racing Oil 40:1 although they recommend 50:1 and up to 100:1
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Motul 800 at 38:1 is the best
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Redline Two-Stroke Racing Oil 40:1 although they recommend 50:1 and up to 100:1
+1 8-)
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80% Royal Purple Racing 20% Castor 40:1 50/50 100LL avgas with Premium 91oct pump fuel..
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I've been thinking of doing something like yours Motorrad. I prolly won't use royal purple, but like the smell of castor and I plan to mix avgas when I get her going again.
That amsoil saber smells horridly!
What smells the best?
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If you guys want to talk gas their is nothin more pickier than my Suzuki 500 quadzilla no mods but a over bore and a shaved head i run Cam 2 110oc 32:1 and it is the best gas in the world i think it is the most consistent gas their is i think and at 7 dollars a gallon it way cheaper than that over priced VP crap. cam 2 and 927 at 32:1 is what i will use just as soon as i get the old K5's topend rebuilt because i can start it with a good yank of the arms. i was allways a klotz guy until i used 927 just because my guy was out of klotz it was the best thing i ever did. I can imagine that it would be even better in a nikisilled cylinder because of the saturation factor that nikisill has over a sleave
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80% Royal Purple Racing 20% Castor 40:1 50/50 100LL avgas with Premium 91oct pump fuel..
Motorrad, i'm curious why you run av gas in a MX engine ? All the information I have read over the years, states that running AV fuel is not advised on high rpm 2 stroke engine applications that see substantial variances in rpm's and load. If I have my facts wrong, by all means correct me..
Most of the guys running heavily modded 2 strokes like to run VP C12
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Motul 800 at 38:1 is the best
Says who ? Based on what facts ?
What smells the best ?
Klotz R50 !!
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80% Royal Purple Racing 20% Castor 40:1 50/50 100LL avgas with Premium 91oct pump fuel..
Motorrad, i'm curious why you run av gas in a MX engine ? All the information I have read over the years, states that running AV fuel is not advised on high rpm 2 stroke engine applications that see substantial variances in rpm's and load. If I have my facts wrong, by all means correct me..
Most of the guys running heavily modded 2 strokes like to run VP C12
Sounds like you read all of VP's propaganda I'll dig out my info for u tonight
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Klotz benol 40:1
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80% Royal Purple Racing 20% Castor 40:1 50/50 100LL avgas with Premium 91oct pump fuel..
Motorrad, i'm curious why you run av gas in a MX engine ? All the information I have read over the years, states that running AV fuel is not advised on high rpm 2 stroke engine applications that see substantial variances in rpm's and load. If I have my facts wrong, by all means correct me..
Most of the guys running heavily modded 2 strokes like to run VP C12
Sounds like you read all of VP's propaganda I'll dig out my info for u tonight
Why are you anti-VP ? :-D
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Klotz benol 40:1
Klotz benol is not the best choice for power valved engines. Benol was engineered for non-power valved engines. Castor based oils have superior shear resistance, but leave behind a substantial amount of "spooge" and tend to gunk up and sieze the valves. If you run Benol make sure you dissasemble and clean the valves periodically.
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So R50 is different than Benol? I haven't searched.
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Redline 40-1 with 100 unleaded. Sometimes 50% 91 oct. Gas is so bad out here everything wants to ping.
Did pick up a case and a half of Kawasaki two stroke oil for a buck a quart at a Big Lots store. Couldn't pass up the price. Just wonder who makes the oil for Kawasaki. Haven't tried it yet. Still got a gallon of redline.
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So R50 is different than Benol? I haven't searched.
had a chance to search. That R50 looks good! If it smells good, I'll give it a try. I do like a little 2 smoke though, so I might try Klotz Super also, but R50 first.
Motul 800 at 38:1 is the best
Says who ? Based on what facts ?
What smells the best ?
Klotz R50 !!
So what do you use PB? Klotz R50 at what ratio in what fuel?
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So R50 is different than Benol? I haven't searched.
had a chance to search. That R50 looks good! If it smells good, I'll give it a try. I do like a little 2 smoke though, so I might try Klotz Super also, but R50 first.
Motul 800 at 38:1 is the best
Says who ? Based on what facts ?
What smells the best ?
Klotz R50 !!
So what do you use PB? Klotz R50 at what ratio in what fuel?
I don't get my panties all up in a bunch when I read the "oil wars" . I won't notice a crap bit of difference between Klotz R50 and 927... i'm sure they are both excellent quality oils. The only reason I plug Klotz R50 is that i've been using it for the past 18 years mixed at 42:1, and had ZERO engine issues. I raced a '97 KX250 for 2 years running Klotz R50, and when I finally pulled apart the top end, I was amazed at how well the piston and powervalves looked. They almost looked brand new. So it's Klotz R50 for me 8-)
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anyone have a suggestion what to use with methanol? at what ratio?
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Oh sweet! Sorry for posting so much :mrgreen:, but...
I wonder if R50 would mix with the Amsoil Saber, not that it needs it, just wondering. Run Saber at 100:1 then finish up to a total of 40:1 with R50 for the smell. I ran straight Saber for a while on trail rides and would make the guys behind me sick after just a short while, several occasions. I'm going to try that R50 next for sure.
On the subject of avgas, I can't get VP fuel within 120 miles of me but I can get avgas. Some octane is better than none right?
Another thing- some oils separate from the fuel after a short while. Does anyone have insight (facts- not just "well, my dad says") on this as to how long to keep mixed fuel, and what oils separate and which ones don't, etc.? Klotz R50 says it stays in suspension. Is this what Klotz is talking about? Is it still safe for my bike, weedeaters, etc., after a few weeks/months? I think that would be good info for this thread.
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I have insite... Been running oil tests for about 3 years now.. Mixing, suspension etc...
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http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,4859.0.html
Lots of fun links...
Most interesting is the burn rates across combustion... VERY VERY similar... And then if you go read the lead amounts you know why they are slightly dufferant.
On iPhone at work... So enjoy my short answer...
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Good info. What VP fuel does 100ll most closely match? I'm also on a mobile and it's hard for me to compare currently.
Also, anyone know a good distributor for Klotz R50? That stuff is expensive locally...
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Good info. What VP fuel does 100ll most closely match? I'm also on a mobile and it's hard for me to compare currently.
Also, anyone know a good distributor for Klotz R50? That stuff is expensive locally...
I wouldn't run R50 unless your a big wide open racer... Not the oil for a woods guy...
Check out it's specs. (s.g, F.p, v.p) etc
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Never rode singletrack or woods in my life. Lots of sand drag races, washes, high speed trails, open desert very similar to you only at 3k' elevation. I know as I grew up riding in Niland and have been to the Brawley hospital in ambulance and out.
Lots of WOT here.
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http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,4859.0.html
Lots of fun links...
Most interesting is the burn rates across combustion... VERY VERY similar... And then if you go read the lead amounts you know why they are slightly dufferant.
On iPhone at work... So enjoy my short answer...
Good info. Here is the article I read on AV pros and cons a few years ago, after reading the article again, sounds like you will be fine in a lower revving KX500 application :
Notes about AV gas from Harry klemm.
Harry used to do the motor work for Mitch at Pro Circuit, so he knows his stuff.
Tryce Welch told me much of the same a few years ago.
I run one gallon of VP C12 to 4 gallons of 93 pump.
"About Aviation Fuels - Aviation gasoline (or "av gas") is blended specifically for use in small aircraft. It's also commonly used by many high performance two-stroke owners because of it's high stated octane rating (usually 100oct) and the relatively low price compared to racing fuel. But it?s importance to understand some details about Av-gas.
Avgas octane is rated on a different scale than gasoline's intended for ground level use. What is 100 octane "av", is not necessarily 100 octane "ground level". Besides this, there is also a big chemical difference. Normal ground level race fuels are made up of gas molecules that have a "light end" and a "heavy end". The light end of the molecule ignites easily and burns quickly with a low temperature flame (as a piece of thin newspaper would burn). The heavy end of the molecule is not so easily ignited, but it burns with a much more intense heat (as an oak log would). This heavy end of the gasoline molecule is responsible for the hotter, more powerful part of the combustion process.
Small aircraft are constructed as very weight conscious vehicles. That's because their somewhat weak engines often have difficulty taking off with any extra weight. To help reduce this weight problem, aviation gasolines are blended with no heavy molecule end. This makes a gallon of avgas weigh measurably less than a gallon of ground level fuel. Since small plane engines turn very low rpms and produce so little power, the omission of the heavy end is not a significant horsepower issue. Running 100% Avgas in a vintage two-stroke is not a good idea because there is a measurable loss of power resulting from the absent ?heavy molecule ends?
All that said, for most vintage two-stroke applications, a 50/50 mix of 91-octane premium, is a mix that offers a big boost in octane, along with ?enough? heavy molecule ends? to make good power. We consider it a very functional and inexpensive way to greatly reduce temperatures, and improve detonation resistance (over straight 91 octane unleaded). We would tend to recommend against it?s use in a sustained high rpm application (like road racing or pro-level 125s motocrossers). However in any vintage two-stroke that is not being run ?wide open all the time? ? it is a fuel that works great. It bears noting that some blends of av-gas will quickly separate from castor-based oils used in premix situations. If you are pre-mixing bean oil ? av gas is not a good idea."
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I think most of the oils today are quite good, and I would run any with the exception of Yamalube. Why you ask no Yamalube, tear a sled down thats ran Yamalube for a couple of years and the carbon on the dome will be so thick you have to use a scraper to get it off. Today it might be good oil I won't use.
I like Redline oils, all of them the 2t, fork/shock and gear oil.
Phillips makes a good inexpensive oil that performs well, I use it in my sleds and have for years.
As for gas, I prefer VP, and yeah I've done my research and have much seat of the pants testing. For those running AV gas 50/50 I don't see any problem, I don't believe you get the performance potential you could, but then for most people the k5 has more than they need anyway. I run C-12 in my playbikes 50/50, in my nitrous bikes C-16, in my 500 comp bike I use Q16 and in the 4t MR12. Its expensive but if your looking for performance then you have to pay, no way I'd run this stuff for play bikes.
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my thoughts exactly regarding the yamalube comment above..i have been out of 2 strokes for a while, but in the past have had IT-175, KX125, CR250, and KX250(94)...I used to run yamalube waaaayyyy back when until I tried using bel-ray mc-1...my bikes always seemed to run better with that oil and that is what I stuck with. I would mix it a little leaner, closer to 40:1 and never had any issues with motor problems whatsoever, and the spooge factore was much less than the yamalube-also much less smoke.
Fast forward to last month, when I picked up a '99 KX500...previous owner gave me a bottle of yamalube and said that is what he has been running, so needless to say I will be draining whatever gas is left in the bike! I have some new H1R and some Maxima that I picked up, so I will be trying those oils. I am also considering tearing the head off and inspecting the power valves before I go much further as I am a bit concerned that the yamalube (and questionable mixture ratios + factory rich jetting from PO) has things gummed up.
I am expecting to run the H1R @ 40:1 with some slightly leaner than stock settings on the carb when I get time to play with it some..its been hotter than hell :evil: here in texas, just can't get motivated to work on the bike yet.
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Motol 800 approved for catalytic converters. 100% synthetic Thats what I always run. Rotory guys put a little in to lube there apex seals.
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Back before Klotz back in the early 80's I ran Golden Spectro, good oil for the time and I did loose a few top ends, but not sure as I could blame the Golden Spectro on lack of oil performance. Back then I was young, 2 stroke green. and stupid but "kinda" fast LOL .
The only oil I was not impressed with was Bel Ray MC1, that garbage leaves a ton of carbon spooge behind.
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PB, that's surprising, a lot of people like that stuff.
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I totally agree about the Yammalube. It's total JUNK. I switched to Golden Sectro and still run that today.
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PB, that's surprising, a lot of people like that stuff.
I agree with pb on mc-1
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I guess my comment above about mc-1 was that it was MUCH better for me than Yamalube, and maybe left a little spooge but nothing that i felt was ridiculous. It was more spoogy @ 32:1, better at 40:1 or so...never trusted running it at 50:1, but im sure many have.
So how does the H1R compare to the MC-1 for those that have tried both?
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Motul 800 at 38:1 is the best
Says who ? Based on what facts ?
What smells the best ?
Klotz R50 !!
well I have an old 86 rm 125 with a very tired motor, it doesn't sound to good ive been running this motor for over a year now (thats how long ive had it) with this mix and it still runs, powerbands and runs pass my buddies 95 rm 125... but I like this bike so much im going to do a full rebuild soon before it dies!
I also run the same mix on my 89 kx 250, It hauls good and hasn't gave me any trouble, it has a brand new top end with only a few hours and I wheelie past my other friends 686 raptor all day long... so as far as im concerned this stuff keeps my engines running long and strong! plus I like the smell of it :-)
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H1R 60:1 2000 kx 500 since new. I had a 92 kx5 that i got used and ran H1R at 70:1 after an older guy( I was only 17 so everybody was old!) told me he would race the big singles ie:500's at 100:1! Never a failure. Oh yeah i used to run av gas in the 92 too, it would blow chunks of carbon out the pipe( I guess it had some build up from previous owners) when you ran it hard! Those were the days......
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Motol 800 approved for catalytic converters. 100% synthetic Thats what I always run. Rotory guys put a little in to lube there apex seals.
yea I run this in my kx 250... my friend has streetport 91 rx7, after we rebuilt hes been putting a little in each tank... good stuff in my opinion!
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Dragging this one back up..
My main mix oil I was using is getting VERY hard to get local.. so going to change.. not worth the PITA it is to get it.
Anyone play with MOtul 800 ?
(also how does it smell? haha Yea I know... but thats the reason I dont run KLOTZ... cant stand to be around the bike)
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I use Champion, Water pumper 2stroke oil and its great its synthetic and burns really clean good stuff at a great price if you buy it by the gallon I used to to run silkolen and klots but I like Champion the best of the three
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Been playing with Maxima's Castor 927 and Torco's GP-7.
I use to use redline but since I don't sell it.... :-D
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Been playing with Maxima's Castor 927 and Torco's GP-7.
I use to use redline but since I don't sell it.... :-D
I ran Castor 927 for YEARS AND YEARS..
seriously thinking of swapping back to it... Only reason I dont... is it falls out of suspension in heavy avgas mix (lower Specific gravity fuels) (that I run from time to time when I get heavy handed in my fuel mixing)
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Dragging this one back up..
My main mix oil I was using is getting VERY hard to get local.. so going to change.. not worth the PITA it is to get it.
Anyone play with MOtul 800 ?
(also how does it smell? haha Yea I know... but thats the reason I dont run KLOTZ... cant stand to be around the bike)
lets put this bad smell issue to bed, from now on run this stuff :
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/372/purewessonoil.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/12/purewessonoil.jpg/)
Your bike will smell like McDonalds french fries. BWAAA-HAAAAA :-D
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bad smell? I love the way all 2 stroke oil smells but I don't think I would be to fond of a French fry smelling bike
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I had always had great luck with Belray MC1 in straight 100LL avgas. I tried using 927 last year, and had no end of issues with it separating from the gas in my KX500, and then plugging the carb. I will be switching back to MC1. Luckily I seem to get by fine using the 927 in my RZ350 since it has oil injection. I am running 100/130 avgas in that bike.
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I had always had great luck with Belray MC1 in straight 100LL avgas. I tried using 927 last year, and had no end of issues with it separating from the gas in my KX500, and then plugging the carb. I will be switching back to MC1. Luckily I seem to get by fine using the 927 in my RZ350 since it has oil injection. I am running 100/130 avgas in that bike.
I think Im going to take a good hard look at Motul 800.. really like it on paper. and should mix fine
Flashpoint same (actually a bit higher) than Castor 927. so that is good for me (WOT dunes/desert guys)
Main reason I stay away from alot of oils... they have flashpoints lower than the CHT's these bikes run at :-o
I still run castor 927 in my bikes I dont run ALOT of avgas through.. as I SWEAR by castor 927... but as you know snoop.. it falls out in heavy mix's of 100LL :cry:
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Dragging this one back up..
My main mix oil I was using is getting VERY hard to get local.. so going to change.. not worth the PITA it is to get it.
Anyone play with MOtul 800 ?
(also how does it smell? haha Yea I know... but thats the reason I dont run KLOTZ... cant stand to be around the bike)
lets put this bad smell issue to bed, from now on run this stuff :
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/372/purewessonoil.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/12/purewessonoil.jpg/)
Your bike will smell like McDonalds french fries. BWAAA-HAAAAA :-D
Too bad I run gas... not Petrol..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOCnDczYvw4
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My wife convinced me to buy some blenzall castor oil. To see if it will work in her essential oil candle.
Sweet
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Just opened a bottle of Motul 800 for the first time
First impressions..
looks and smells like thick ATF
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I always thought of Motul 800 as a really good oil.I remember factory Kawie using it back in the day in the supercross and motocross seasons.When I say "back in the day",it was the late 80's to mid 90's that I remember seeing them using it....whether they still do,I don't know.You would hope if they're using it, it's gotta be good.
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Redline 70 to 1 very little smoke, fuel half 100 half 110. runs great
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I use Bel Ray H1-R for all my 2-strokes (40:1 for my KX500) now. I've put quite a few miles on my Ex Team Green KX500, and the compression still checks great and the piston looks good just from inspecting from the exhaust chamber and intake ports. When I grew up racing, me and just about everyone I knew in District 37 was using Golden Spectro at 40:1. I did a lot of two stroke rebuilding and we decided to go with Golden Spectro based on the engines we kept taking apart. I think any good name brand two-stroke dirt bike oil will due as long as you are mixing at the recommended ratio.
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Just opened a bottle of Motul 800 for the first time
First impressions..
looks and smells like thick ATF
Okay. It smells like ATF premix out the exhaust pipe too :|
It's probably just mercon V with fancy marketing and a HUGE price tag to match...
Kidding of course. :wink: (as I go to look up the flashpoint of mercon V :roll:)
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I always thought of Motul 800 as a really good oil.I remember factory Kawie using it back in the day in the supercross and motocross seasons.When I say "back in the day",it was the late 80's to mid 90's that I remember seeing them using it....whether they still do,I don't know.You would hope if they're using it, it's gotta be good.
I run Motul 800 in all my two strokes. Its expensive but I have had good luck with it. Buying online saves a decent amount too.
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I run Motul 800 2t/Sunoco Cam2 44-1 in my K5, 05 YZ155, and my 82 RM125. I spoke with a technician at Maxima once about their products - he said that the 927 held peak power longer than K2, but would drop out of suspension in colder weather with some race fuel(depending on specific gravity). He also said that when Team Suzuki used Maxima, they ran K2 32-1. As previously mentioned by another poster, Eric ic Gorr told me the same thing - use a quality oil at the ratio they suggest...
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here a link to the oil I use in the Cr500
http://www.motul.com/system/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/2673/original/800_2T_Factory_Line_Off_Road_TDS_%28GB%29.pdf?1302119865
it is Motul 800 a full esther synthetic
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I use Bel Ray H1-R for all my 2-strokes (40:1 for my KX500) now. I've put quite a few miles on my Ex Team Green KX500, and the compression still checks great and the piston looks good just from inspecting from the exhaust chamber and intake ports. When I grew up racing, me and just about everyone I knew in District 37 was using Golden Spectro at 40:1. I did a lot of two stroke rebuilding and we decided to go with Golden Spectro based on the engines we kept taking apart. I think any good name brand two-stroke dirt bike oil will due as long as you are mixing at the recommended ratio.
I ran bel-ray mc1 50:1 in all my 2-stroke engines until they came out with the h1r... I switched to h1r. Never had any issues with it in any of the bikes...H1R i ran 40:1 in the K5... I may run 32:1 in the 250 but i will have to fiddle with it a bit before I settle on anything...
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been running motul 800 (offroad) at 50:1 for some time now. and very hapy with it. (have torn down motors to inspect oil left behind etc... and it looks good)
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in the last 15 years I am only used motul 800 in all my bikes, since I canīt get no longer the 2t oils of SHELL.
I also tested the products of bel ray, castrol, motorex and ELF, but motul 800 makes for me the best performance at 40:1., it burns very clean.the piston always looks like new when I replace it after 40 operating hours. there is also no thick oil-coal deposit in the exhaust pipe, like some cheaper oils do.
the smell from the exhaust does not interest me. that's always behind me when riding ... :evil: :lol:
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I run the redline 2 stroke race oil in all the 2 strokes i have. In the dirt karts, largescale RC's and the dirtbikes.
Have run it for years and the guy that builds our kart engines is always amazed at how clean my engines are.
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I run Redline as well, in fact I use all their fluids, suspension, gearsaver, water wetter, and the 2 stroke oil. Tom Morgan built me a Rocket ship 125 and he reccommended Redline, been using it ever since. I would not be opposed to running soimething else in everything built the tranny, that stuff is the bomb.
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I run Redline as well, in fact I use all their fluids, suspension, gearsaver, water wetter, and the 2 stroke oil. Tom Morgan built me a Rocket ship 125 and he reccommended Redline, been using it ever since. I would not be opposed to running soimething else in everything built the tranny, that stuff is the bomb.
Just out of interest, what redline gear oil do you run in yours don46? I just changed the gear oil in mine over to redline lightweight shockproof in my 500.
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I run Redline as well, in fact I use all their fluids, suspension, gearsaver, water wetter, and the 2 stroke oil. Tom Morgan built me a Rocket ship 125 and he reccommended Redline, been using it ever since. I would not be opposed to running soimething else in everything built the tranny, that stuff is the bomb.
Just out of interest, what redline gear oil do you run in yours don46? I just changed the gear oil in mine over to redline lightweight shockproof in my 500.
I use the superlight, it is yellow, and man does that stuff stick to everything. is the lightweight blue? is so I've used it as well
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no one running klotz super techniplate in here? heard that was super popular and good stuff. was going to give it a try on my new bike.
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I actually tried the Klotz Super Techniplate, the one for Power valve engines. The shop I work for has many turbo charged 2 stroke snowmobiles and that is what they swear by. They have no problems running it mixed with 100LL Aviation gas (even though I have read many bad things about doing that), however I used it with strictly 93 pump. The smell was super sweet and I ran it at a conservative 32:1 on both my KX500 and my son's KX60 with nothing but good luck.
I have since switched to Castor 927 because I can get it much cheaper. I will probably end up going to Motul 800 after I switch to race gas though.
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I use the superlight, it is yellow, and man does that stuff stick to everything. is the lightweight blue? is so I've used it as well
Yeh the lightweight is the blue one. Have got the super lightweight one here as well. we used them in the R6 engines in our formula 500's.
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I use klotz techniplate tc-w2 in my 500 and 125. Also in all my other bikes over the years. Never had a problem. Mix 40:1. Gonna switch to motul 800 offroad after hearing all the great stuff. Always loved the smell of klotz though.
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OK back in the 80's,85 to be exact I was friends with RJ's YAMAHA MECH Cliff Lett who told me Yamaha did a lot of testing with a lot of diff oils yamalube r at 32.1 gave the best power in all bikes they tested at the time a rival team H even used the R but over the years it has changed and the M has came about with that im a big fan of the 927 I use it in all my 2 strokes from a husky weed eater,chain saw a zuki 50 and both my kx500.....IFFFF I ever do switch it will be to Rock oil or motul 800. :-D
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i personally run motul 800 at 38:1 in my kx500 and after pulling the head off after 4 desert races and lots of rides later the top of the piston looked awesome and the power valves looked like they have never seen exhaust fumes haha i run it because so many racing buddies told me how clean it burned in the motor, i can't argue after looking at mine.
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Lot's of positive feedback on Motul 800, I think I might try it . Question for the pros, what exactly is Motul's claim to be an "Ester synthetic" ?
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OK back in the 80's,85 to be exact I was friends with RJ's YAMAHA MECH Cliff Lett who told me Yamaha did a lot of testing with a lot of diff oils yamalube r at 32.1 gave the best power in all bikes they tested at the time a rival team H even used the R but over the years it has changed and the M has came about with that im a big fan of the 927 I use it in all my 2 strokes from a husky weed eater,chain saw a zuki 50 and both my kx500.....IFFFF I ever do switch it will be to Rock oil or motul 800. :-D
I used to run 927 in the K5. then I got tired of taking the kips appart due to them being stuck... and thats on a dunes bike that got held WOT almost all the time
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just my 2 cents... i"d been running H1R @40:1 mixed with 93 pump gas. but, so far this riding season i've seen 2 yz250s granade from detonation. one burned a hole thru the top of the piston( these bikes are jetting correctly, we assume it was the poor fuel quaility. So since then I'm mixing 50/50 VP C9 with the ethanol laden 93 pump gas. ( 5gal= 50 bux) but since i made the change, i also stopped using the Bel Ray stuff, and am now using Maxima super M. i got 64oz for what i would have paid for 24oz of H1R. works good, smells good. i ll report what the pv looks like when i clean it soon
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how about a thread on differant forms of race fuel we are all using? non av gas... :roll:
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I've always been under the understanding that 2 strokes do not make power from compression as a 4 stroke does, so wouldn't higher quality fuel take more force to ignite and in turn be harder on a 2 stroke motor then lower quality 92oct?
Please correct me if i'm wrong.
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as i understand it, race fuel burns more complete at lower temps. pump gas is made for cars that redline where two strokes idle. " spooge" is actually unburned gas exhausted out. if you can afford it, why not? :evil:
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I only use Amsoil dominator mixed at 50:1. I have excellent results. Wrist pin bearing looks good, powervalves clean and moving freely, cylinder wall clean and sealed up with rings. This stuff is excellent. I go between 93 pump gas and power mist race gas. I like the leaded race gas. It does leave lead deposites, but the lead is also a nice high pressure lubricant.
Food for thought.
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This is just my 2 cents & alot of change after reading on 2 stroke oil today. Figured I'd share
Spooge tells you where your at quite a bit, depending how much your cleaning / revving it out, you'll see it in extra oil dripping all over the back of your bike . You may want to adjust the ratio if your going to the dunes of if your going to be in the deep woods for the day. My experience anyway
I've been reading on 2T oils & the baseline for oil choice in 2 stroke bike oil is the JASO FD certification. From numerous oil threads alot of them came down to JASO FD.
One other trick I got from a builder is , on teardown inspect the oil puddle in the bottom of the case. You should have a 1/2" to 3/4" band of oil in the bottom of the case from what drips off the cylinder , case , & crank. Dave mentioned this as well
I "think" people have a hard time grasping modern technology. It's like 30 years ago & heads not having hardened valve seats. Valves would wear into the head & the head material would burn away. Now with more study in metallurgy you have a better use of ideal materials that will run 200,000 miles & show minimal wear. I have this problem myself when I hear of guys running 50:1 & 70:1. NO, NO you cant do that, but I know guys who "get away" with it. It really cant be "getting away" with it, the chemists must be developing better blends, how else can you explain it. Think of this 20:1 1970's & motor oil , 32:1 mid 80's & up with outboard oil. The manufacturer's had to give a mix ratio of the worst possible oil of the time for a safety margin, like they do with the jetting. "Now" you really have to consider the quality of what oil your using.
"Recreationaly" If your using extra spoogey marine follow what they did then 32:1, if you step up to JASO FD 40:1 ?, or if your running all out $20 a quart stuff 50:1 up to 70:1. Just my best guess , dont :cry: to me if you burn it up
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NOT MAXIMA SUPER M!!!.......just locked up a motor on it and from what I hear I'm not the first. Motul 800 from now on!!
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Spooge tells you where your at quite a bit, depending how much your cleaning / revving it out, you'll see it in extra oil dripping all over the back of your bike . You may want to adjust the ratio if your going to the dunes of if your going to be in the deep woods for the day. My experience anyway
Wrong. (unless I missread this).. and I mean this in a nice, constructive discussion way.. not a A-hole Your "wrong" way..
A properly jetted bike shouldnt spooge, be it idle all day long, or wide open all day long. spooge tells you nothing more than your jetting is wrong. (was no spooge on my bike this weekend, and Im sure the boys can attest to how it ran) If you try to get rid of the spooge by changing your oil ratio... your going about it all wrong... (and a dangerous way to go) Pick a ratio, AND OIL and jet to it. (as oils are differant viscositys, and just changing from 40:1 of one oil to 40:1 of another brand will throw your jetting off)
Changing your ratio depending on where your riding is a no no... Unless you change your jetting at the same time. Have seen many guys lock a motor doing that at the dunes. they figure. "I normaly run 40:1 for desert, Im goign to the dunes so Ill run 28:1, as I need more oil to protect the bike" well, they dont re-jet. and by adding that extra oil, they just LEANED the bike out, which is the wrong way to go for high load, High RPM dunes. PLUS.. there is more oil in the mix, which burns HOTTER than gasoline. just compounding the problem...
NOW. if you have bikes dedicated to one type of riding, yes you can run differant ratios in differant bikes (because they are jetted for that ratio)... for example, I used to run 70:1 in my trials bike.. and ran 32:1 in my air cooled husky's. If I put the 32:1 mix in my trials bike, it would run HOT, and ping to death. and be LEAN LEAN.. (ask me how I know... :roll: I mixed up my cans one day)
anyone PLEASE feel free to correct me if im wrong...
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and the JADO certs ect, are for the companys that decided to shell out the money to the "system" for the cert. some of the best oils I have run (4 stroke, and 2) have no certs... as they refuse to pay the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to get a stupid 4 letter thing on their bottle)
the reason they didnt run hardened seats, is there was GOOD gasoline... that made it so they didnt. LEAD BABY.
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No offense taken
extra / unburned oil will be present as spooge correct? You could lean it out more to burn it more up , but my opinion is generally your running more oil than actually needed in the 20:1 - 32:1 range
I realize that oil takes the place of some fuel when mixed, so yes of course you have to recalculate jetting for different mix ratios, but, oil mix ratio needed is directly correlated to rpm, so if your not winding it out on long desert straights for hours on end the extra oil will create spooge, so in the tight woods you would want less oil when your not "blowing it out" .
Sorry correct jetting was assumed my thoughts were oil related. I ride in enough different terrain that I would feel it worth while to adjust the mix "& jetting" to the type of riding
All the 3 headed fish & I digress "the reason they didnt run hardened seats, is there was GOOD gasoline..."
With the old lead the newer nitrided valves, think black toyota valves & the inserted seats would still be better even with the "good gas"
I am an Ahole though, I'm in Ahole's anon if that helps :-D
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, oil mix ratio needed is directly correlated to rpm, so if your not winding it out on long desert straights for hours on end the extra oil will
Piston velocitys. are often over looked... can have a lower RPM motor that has higher Piston velocitys than another smaller motor hint hint. K5
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NOT MAXIMA SUPER M!!!.......just locked up a motor on it and from what I hear I'm not the first. Motul 800 from now on!!
in my opinion, maxima makes only relative usable fork oil ...
motul only for me, because i have only the best experiences with it since i used it the first time. :-D
for engines on this high performance level use only the best oil you can get..
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i run amsoil dominator at 50:1 and it seems great every time i have the pipe off (every ride due to pipe mounts broken) i look at the piston and cyl. and they always have looked super clean.
Ditto on the Amsoil! Great oil. I had the black spooge when I first got the bike. I converted from Belray at 40:1 with spooge.
by the second ride and ever since (nearly a year now) I have been running the Amsoil at 50:1 and there is very little smoke and no more spooge. Upon inspection there is a cleaner, and proper lubed cylinder and exhaust area.
Hawkeye :-D
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Switched to Motol 800 about 4 months ago at 50:1.
So far..... So good 8-)
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Switched to Motol 800 about 4 months ago at 50:1.
So far..... So good 8-)
Me too
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Switched to Motol 800 about 4 months ago at 50:1.
So far..... So good 8-)
Me too
Good thing you suggested it.
Had it sitting on the shelf :lol:
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i run amsoil dominator at 50:1 and it seems great every time i have the pipe off (every ride due to pipe mounts broken) i look at the piston and cyl. and they always have looked super clean.
Ditto on the Amsoil! Great oil. I had the black spooge when I first got the bike. I converted from Belray at 40:1 with spooge.
by the second ride and ever since (nearly a year now) I have been running the Amsoil at 50:1 and there is very little smoke and no more spooge. Upon inspection there is a cleaner, and proper lubed cylinder and exhaust area.
Hawkeye :-D
always Amsoil!!!
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NOT MAXIMA SUPER M!!!.......just locked up a motor on it and from what I hear I'm not the first. Motul 800 from now on!!
are you blaming the oil? :-D :lol: :wink:
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Not to get too far off topic on the subject of oils, but just a heads up many of you know about my KX500 kart project, and it's running, and in the early stages of testing. Once I have reliable drivability I plan on doing some in-depth jet testing, and gathering data. When I had RPM fab my exhaust pipe I asked Joe P. to add a EGT bung in the exhaust. I have a sweet Mychron 4 data acquisition HUD that will tells me rpm's, coolant temps, and EGT's (I can actually map and overlap long rpm and egt run sessions and save them) . I'm sure all of you tuners want to know how "safe lean" you can push a KX500 engine by means of EGT temps. I'd like to compare EGT temps simply from changing from 32:1 premix vs. 50:1 .
I tried as lean as a 162 main but that felt a tad too lean and my plug looked a bit too white) Thus far most of us have jetted by experienced "ear" and "seat of the pants" but fact is EGT tuning is hardcore real time data. It will be good info for all of us.
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Looking forward to it.
Thanks!
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I'm planning on using Klotz Benol when my build is done. My second choice would be Maxima Castor 927.