KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Steel Frame Conversion (SFC) => Topic started by: Suva on March 27, 2012, 08:35:18 PM
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Not sure this site needs another build thread, but...
Due to a casual comment from my brother, a new job and the incredible info on this site I now have my poor k5 torn apart with it's engine sitting next to an '01 250 frame. Picked up the '01 as a fairly cheep runner, hoping to off-set most of it's cost by selling it's engine and whats left of the k5 that my brother doesn't want. Was also planning on riding the 250 an 500 for the summer and starting the project this coming winter. That is, until I realized how much I like both power and slick handling... both bikes were promptly stripped (yesterday) a day after purchasing the quarter bike.
Aside from the '01s linkage apparently NEVER been serviced and having to alternately force seemingly welded bolts out and being showered with pieces of broken needle bearings, it went pretty well.
Turns out that the 250 had fork work done by C & M Performance in CDA who gives free valving updates for life regardless of who owns them every time they are brought in for servicing. Ran over today to drop off both them and a severely neglected shock, and even while being swamped the guy sat down and talked things over with me for a good while. So far pretty impressed with the guy, and cant wait to try 'em out. All updates, new springs plus reworking the shock will be completed next Wed.
Once back home, I cut off the 250's front mounts and spent a some hours detailing and looking over the k5 engine. For the fact that it has relatively low hours and I am way too excited to get riding, any internal work will wait for next winter. This project has gotten me all giddy... Feeling like a lil kid!
Tried to post a couple pics, but don't know how to reduce their sizes
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can't wait to see them! thanks for sharing.
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If you use tinypic it makes them smaller automatically. Off-shoot of PhotoBucket, no registration. I keep track of my photo?s by saving the link to a file on my 'puter so I don't have to keep putting them back on.
http://tinypic.com/
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Thanks Brute, first image as a tester is the K5 partially torn down...
(http://i43.tinypic.com/350t2mp.jpg)
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Hey, it worked!
Was going to haul the frame, engine etc to a shop to weld both for time and quality reasons. Thinking now I might wait 'till next week when I can drive 2 hrs down to dad's shop an try doing the work myself. Good excuse to see the gf, save some money and not have to try and explain everything to someone else. Too bad I'm not that great of a welder...
Will be using the 500 swing arm, largely because I feel better not boring out the 500 cases. Plus, seems easier than milling every thing on the 250 s/a set up to fit. One concern is welding in the bushings without overheating/screwing up the frame... Any thoughts?
500 engine impatiently waiting in the 250's frame, tabs cut off...
(http://i44.tinypic.com/5v23a.jpg)
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Well, turns out some training is scheduled on my days off next week... Really dont want this project sitting for another two weeks before getting the engine mounts sorted out. Found a shop in CDA that does a lot of stuff including making custom chopper frames, so will haul the project over there to get everything welded up. REALLY wishing I had a welder or at least knew more people in this town :|
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Looks great! Got to get my shop cleaned out so I can start a new project... Still have two bikes to finish, and I am thinking about tearing into another. Not good. Well, good, but you know what I mean! Keep the build info coming.
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Suva looks like your off to a good start
I used 500 swing arm it was a lot of work.the 500 swing arm bolt is almost to short if you have a longer one made and two shouldered washers it will bolt right in also you have to space where the 500 link was i used two grade 8 washers on each side.
I used the 250 link and 500 struts the 500 struts are 1/2in. longer so you have the correct ride height also you have to use the 250 shock
good luck JM
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Brute: Know what you mean... Aside from the KX project, I've a bandit and snowmobile that need lots of attention along with a rolled toyota 4x4 I picked up but considering ditching vise dealing with.
JM: good info, sounds better than trying to get in there to weld... Did you just have a machine shop mill down a linkage bushing for the shouldered washers?
Did you find any real benefit to keep the K5 swing arm?
I noticed the differences on the struts, but haven't looked too hard at the shocks other than to notice the 5's reservoir def sits lower. Was kinda hoping to have a spare, possibly for a dez setup. Oh well, anyone need a K5 shock? :-D
Cut off the headstay and cleaned the head up last night before work. Musta been tired, cuz I let the nut on the angle grinder kinda gouge the head (not mating surface, thankfully). Other than that, seems to look pretty good.
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Sittin here thinkin about that shouldered washer deal... makes a LOT more sense that what I was plannin on. Thanks!
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What i did was opened up the holes and used the bushing out of an 250 link then welded them in it was a lot of grinding with a stone on the outside and a flat wheel on the inside
also make or have made a good head stay look at BDI"s build
with a 2003 or newer you could use the 500 one but the 90's and the year we used 99-02 the gas tank is in the way and then you will have to use a heat gun to reshape the bottom of the tank.
you may be thinking about using your 500 radiators don't to much trouble making them fit.
the air box will need some tweaking i removed the two rivets and let it fold up and trimmed it the carb boot some said they use a KDX 250 one i used 2000 boot and vforce 3 it came with two air inserts i used the on for jet sky i would check in to the KDX one
good luck JM
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Well, stubbornness lost- using the 250's swing arm now. seems there's a reason most everyone else did... Having a lathe an welder would have made using the 500's a lot easier.
Bored out the cases and started working on the swing arm yesterday. For widening the s/a out, used an angle grinder to get semi close then swapped to a flat file to avoid screwing it all up. Combo square helps keeping things, uh, square :wink:.
Having major difficulties with the 250's linkage though. bearings are froze on pretty good, cant even get the seals out! Soaked em in PB Blaster (basically same as WD-40, but better) all night/most of the day but still no luck. Heat didn't do any good either. Any ideas? would rather not have to order a new one...
Was looking at the 250's pipe and noticed the header(?) flange is the same dimensions as the 5's. Never really been around a KX250 before an never thought about comparing with a 250's pipe before. Might save the OEM K5 pipe from destruction...
Expecting the new DEP pipe in tomorrow.
(http://i40.tinypic.com/10sc9xg.jpg)
damage on linkage from previous 2 owners riding on destroyed bearings
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2ak9pj.jpg)
Just can't seem to get these darn things out!
(http://i41.tinypic.com/xaw236.jpg)
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Hmmm, anyone wanna trade 250 linkage for 500 linkage? Or possibly other K5 parts :-D?
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To get the bearings out you will need a press and the correct socket sizes.
No press?
You can do it with a large C-clamp and the correct socket sizes but it is a lot harder...
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look on eBay or throw a cheep set of bearings in for now and grease the piss out of them for now
keep us posted JM
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Thanks gents! Somehow didn't even think about actually pressing them out :? Duh... I've a small vise in the garage, will give it a shot tomorrow.
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Oh yes, I've done them in a vice as well, just be sure you use the right size sockets for both ends as aluminum will dent easily...
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Front motor mounts are welded in :-) Wound up making it down to dad's shop the other day and fab'ed up a headstay. Including randomly bsing with friends/fam and scrapping the first couple tries, took a better part of the day an still not totally thrilled with the result. Should (hopefully) work though.
Monkeyed around with mocking up the pipe while I was at it... Looks like it'll be quite the chore. Where is everyone getting those green radiator hoses to flip the inlet for better clearance?
No pictures-camera battery is dead an misplaced the charger in my recent move...
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In the interest of fitting a larger capacity tank, I read in a post ( http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,8211.0.html ) that Flying Hawaiian used a 05-07 tank for better fitment on his '04. KXer asked how well it might fit on a 01, but F.H. didn't know... Anyone ever try mocking one up? Seems like there are very few Kx's in my neck of the woods to compare with- weapon of choice tend to be Katooms and YZs with some CRs. If no one knows an I can't find anything to check against, might go ahead and order one with the hopes of returning it if it's a complete no-go. Would really rather not order blindly though.
Sounds like the clark has the hands up vise IMS, anyone have a differing opinion?
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Finally getting some progress going again... Frame is powder coated, lookin pretty good. After struggling quite a while with c-clamps, a vise etc on the linkage bearings and getting nowhere, I located a press. Took quite a bit of force to get them to initially pop.
For lack of info, other than that the frame was changed in '03, will just plan on using a aux tank for now. Maybe look back into it later on.
Starting my 4 off tomorrow morn an hoping to have most of the parts together by the end of the day. Have to run to CD'A, then wire in a 230 outlet in the garage though, so we'll see.
Key things yet to accomplish:
-dent tank
-finish pipe
-fab pipe/silencer mounts
New plastics will come later down the road
My FMF TCII came in the mail, seems cutting an inch or so off the back would help line up the rear mount better + protect it a touch more. Was considering removing the front mount, but not sure using just one is such a hot idea. I am positive I'll be testing it's strength on a routine basis (aka, bouncing off trees, terra firma)
hopefully pics tomorrow...
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So much for keeping up with this...
I've had the bike running for a bit now. been hard to get around to posting pics as I don't have internet at home anymore...
Wound up using an FMF pipe from Service Honda (Thanks a ton AJ!!!) as every time I touched the DEP pipe in one place, it screwed up what I did somewhere else (very thin compared to the FMF). I also tend towards the brute force methodology, so others might have better luck with it. Still have it though, might work on it more later to use as a spare.
Had to pick up some Yamaha(?) snowmobile exhaust springs as the ones I had were way too short.
The FMF only needed minor massaging to gain a little more room, and I did wrap the rad hose with some reflective tape as added insurance. Also cut the front mount off and welded a 250 mount (mocked up better than the 500 mount) low on the chamber to match the frame mount location.
Used a new 250 clutch cable, and filed the lever a touch to give the cable a little play. Works great!
The intake boot is still super close to the rear spring, which worries me. Saw someone here mentioned a kdx 250 intake manifold helped him, so will try that.
There were a few other things I was going to mention, but they're skipping my mind at the moment...
Must say however, with this engine in a capable chassis it is a beautiful thing in the woods. And yes, even and/or especially in the tight single track we have in the mountains of N. Idaho. You HAVE to love that low end grunt! Woo hoo!
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Soooooo, after one layoff and two moves later....
remembered a couple things might help others along.
-the 90* coolant hose I used behind the exh. pipe is from the 250's head and trimmed to fit
-original exh springs were way too short, so went to my (then) near by ohv shop and found some that worked off of a yamaha rino (i think). pretty tight still, but didn't find anything closer.
P.S. after mocking everything up etc. etc., make SURE you lock-tite all of your engine mounts. St. Anthony's got a little more iron somewhere out in her dunes...
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In the interest of fitting a larger capacity tank, I read in a post ( http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,8211.0.html ) that Flying Hawaiian used a 05-07 tank for better fitment on his '04. KXer asked how well it might fit on a 01, but F.H. didn't know... Anyone ever try mocking one up? Seems like there are very few Kx's in my neck of the woods to compare with- weapon of choice tend to be Katooms and YZs with some CRs. If no one knows an I can't find anything to check against, might go ahead and order one with the hopes of returning it if it's a complete no-go. Would really rather not order blindly though.
Sounds like the clark has the hands up vise IMS, anyone have a differing opinion?
I chopped the oversize clarke tank for the 99-02 kx 250 up to accommodate the larger head of the 500.
Took the tank to a plastics guy in town. He determined what type of plastic the tank was manufactured from. He was able to weld a new piece on the bottom of the tank.
I would say I only lost about 1 to 1.5 litre capacity in doing this. Fits perfectly now.
If you'd like some pics for ideas, give me a shout.
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NICE!!! Now that I'm out in "desert(ish)" country and only hair & hound type races around, thought I was going to have to buy another 500 so I could get a big enough tank. pictures would be awesome!
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Having some trouble posting photos now for some reason?
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This site no longer can host pics.
You have to put them on photobucket, facebook, ect and then link them here..
See how here.
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,10040.0.html (http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,10040.0.html)
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(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae309/yeomansjosh/image6_zpsc220e9a6.jpeg)
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(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae309/yeomansjosh/photo_zpsefc1e12d.jpg)
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(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae309/yeomansjosh/image_zps641ff4da.jpeg)
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(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae309/yeomansjosh/image5_zpsc9c919ba.jpeg)
Just wanted to thank Sandblaster for photo tips. I'm pretty bad with computers, so I had to call in the girlfriend for help.
Suva,
First is the uncut tank, Notice how it won't even sit on the top of the frame rails. The masking tape and pencil was my imaginary line
Second is the tank after I got it back from the plastics guy. I was warned that it wasn't going to be a pretty job by any means, but this is what he was able to do for me, and for my situation I was happy with it. It holds.
Third is of finished tank sitting on the mock up build. I also sent my head to Larry for the decompression valve mod, and I got the stock motor mount chopped off, which is why it may look a little funny at the head.
Forth, my mock up build to date, just got the foot pegs and I'm waiting on my ignition from Alex at the moment.
If you need any other pics just ask. Now that I got it figured out. :-)
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Awesome, thanks man! Now need to find a shop around here that does that stuff. Very nice looking bike, by the way!
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Thanks man.
If it makes it any easier for you, the guy at the shop mentioned to me that the Clarke tank was manufactured from low density poly.
I just searched plastic fusion and plastic specialty shops in my area until someone pointed me into this guys direction.
He also told me it had to be a brand new tank to start with because the left over oils in premix will mess with the fusion of the new material.
Soon as he asked if it was a 2 stroke I knew I had my guy :-)
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Awesome. Found someone who might be able to work on that. Looking over the bike today and checking compression, found I had a head gasket leak. Figured if I had to take the head off, I might as well work on the Kips, get some head and cyl. work done and maybe get the compression release installed. Did Larry have to do anything weird for it to fit under your tank?
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No, not at all, I'm assuming he put it in the exact same place as all of his others.
I am running the older 86 k5 motor though.
You caught me at a good time because yesterday I got my used ims tank in the mail for my 2000 kx 250.
Just for kicks I tried the ims tank on my 500 instead of the Carke tank that I had chopped and was stunned at how close the ims tank almost fit. It would have required way less modification to fit the bike, and I would have had more fuel capacity using the ims.
I will say I do like the look off the Clarke tanks a little better though, just happened t get a used ims tank for $40.
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Hmmm, that's VERY interesting
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I have the frame out for powder coating right now. I can get some pics for you with the ims tank when I get the frame back, if you want.
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So long as the IMS isn't too obtrusive to ride comfortably with and not mess up riding style I'd go with that. Tank will have to be on hold for the moment as available $$$ are going to Mr. Pinsonnault to mess with the jug and head.