KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: jgturbo on March 27, 2012, 05:08:23 PM
-
Just bought a plated 1991 KX500 a week ago. Rode it for the first time on Sunday at the Eddiville GP track in south-central Washington. First impressions are as follows:
Uh, where's third? Oh well, hope it will pull fourth gea...braaaaap!!!
Good gravy! This thing's got torque!
Clutch pull is a little stiff though.
Forgot how flex-y 20 year old forks were.
Wish the seat wasn't a banana.
So anyway, I don't have 3rd gear so I rode the course entirely in 4th gear. Worked fine for the GP track. Took it on the moto section and was wishing I had 3rd. Will be tearing it down shortly.
I'll have to wait until I tear it down to be sure, but I'm guessing 3rd gear slipped on the shaft (took out a c clip or bent a shift fork). Anyway, undercutting the dogs would keep the gears from loading other components axially, so that seems like a good idea.
I can't get over how tractor-like this motor is! Pulls right of an idle. Interested to see what the insides look like. I peeked through the spark plug hole before I rode it and it's got a brand new piston (shiny), but the cylinder is scuffed. The airbox was full of sand, so I can only assume the motor is too. The bike came with an extra cylinder and head. The extra cylinder is off a shifter cart and wildly ported. Not sure what to do with it. The head has goofy dimples (hammer and center punch) on half of the squish band. I was told that this was to prevent pinging. Not really buying it.
Motorrad, could you PM me contact info for getting my head modded and a compression release installed? That looks like a slick setup.
Does anyone have experience with the Magura hydraulic clutch? They're magic on KTMs and Husabergs. Are they just as good on a KX?
So this is the beginning of the tale of a KX500 motor and me. Hopefully I'll start a dualsport thread in the general section pretty soon. Waiting to see if the plates transfer along with the title. Crossing my fingers.
-
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/board,30.0.html
-
Hit up the DMV yesterday aaaaannnnnddddd....... I'm Plated! Current tags util 2013. No questions asked. Time to start posting pics!
-
Hit up the DMV yesterday aaaaannnnnddddd....... I'm Plated! Current tags util 2013. No questions asked. Time to start posting pics!
awesome! another member with a plate!...
Bring on the pics!
-
I was suppose to get a plated K5 last week but the guy flaked out.
That's great you found one and had no problems registering it.
My search continues...
-
sandblaster I don't know where you live but there is a titled and plated k5 here in Colorado near Denver its on craigslist the only problems is he wants 2500$ but he's been trying to sell for a while so bet money he would take he would take less its a very clean bike too
-
sorry for the double there I just mean one( he would take) ohh and hey motorad my bike is plated too its some serious fun nothing can beat it at least till I run out of gear!
-
sorry for the double there I just mean one( he would take) ohh and hey motorad my bike is plated too its some serious fun nothing can beat it at least till I run out of gear!
Thats why us cool guys have overdrive 5th gear...
-
sandblaster I don't know where you live but there is a titled and plated k5 here in Colorado near Denver its on craigslist the only problems is he wants 2500$ but he's been trying to sell for a while so bet money he would take he would take less its a very clean bike too
Thanks for the heads up.
I'm in Eugene Oregon, Denver is a bit out of the way,
Another will come along I just need to be patient.
-
Thats why us cool guys have overdrive 5th gear...
[/quote]
Are there any of those gears still available?
I thought there was a batch made up by a former member who we lost contact with...
-
Thats why us cool guys have overdrive 5th gear...
Are there any of those gears still available?
I thought there was a batch made up by a former member who we lost contact with...
[/quote]
We are looking into having another set made... By we. I mean crazy al racing
-
It would be nice to have a set sitting on the shelf for when my SM project becomes a reality.
-
The titled and plated frame is on the bucket. The motor in the bike matches the bare frame.
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/Photo326.jpg)
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/Photo324.jpg)
Here's the goofy spare head that came with the bike. Anyone have experience with dimples?
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/Photo315.jpg)
-
hey sandblaster there are two titled frames here in Colorado too if that helps I know its a lot easier to ship a frame than a bike and they are pretty cheap one is $200 something the other is $300 and I believe they are both 90s models
-
Thanks!
I really appreciate that but I really need an Oregon titled and plated frame as the last one I got from out of State they would not let me get it plated for Oregon.
Why?
I have no idea....
-
wow that a bummer its so easy to change titles and get plates here you can get plate for any bike as long as you have head light, tail light, brake light, horn (bicycle horns work) and a mirror if you have that you can get plates here just get the state troopers to inspect it and your good
-
Yeah it use to be that way here too until the Chinese started selling a bunch of scrap and people were getting them plated left and right.
The good thing about that was if they didn't get themselves killed in the first few months of riding them the bikes broke down and no replacement parts could be found. :roll:
-
Made a bit of progress today:
Tore down the bike and took apart the top end. Looks like the cylinder could use replating. What's a good place to send it? U.S. Chrome perhaps?
Also, the main bearings have a scary amount of play. I can grab the flywheel and wiggle the crank up and down about .025". Not fun. I'm glad I didn't ride it any more than a day!
One more thing: It has, what appears to be, an IMS connecting rod. It says Pro Series on it. The previous owner also took the time to polish the heck out of it. The pic doesn't do it justice, but he did a decent job. Is this rod worth keeping?
Ordered a flywheel puller today. The story will continue in 3-5 business days.
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/Photo343.jpg)
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/Photo348.jpg)
-
Also, the main bearings have a scary amount of play. I can grab the flywheel and wiggle the crank up and down about .025". Not fun. I'm glad I didn't ride it any more than a day!
Not good. How does the crank spin ? It's Pretty easy to tell when you have a trashed bearing. The crank stub could be trashed as well. It almost looks like the LH crank weight has been rubbing the case ? A complete teardown is the only conclusive way to go at this point. I'm also not sure why that rod was "polished" ? It looks more to me like someone deburred the rod from a prior piston failure that gouged up the rod ?
One more thing: It has, what appears to be, an IMS connecting rod. It says Pro Series on it. The previous owner also took the time to polish the heck out of it. The pic doesn't do it justice, but he did a decent job. Is this rod worth keeping?
Another affirmation resulting from the above stated issue as to why I totally dislike aftermarket...
-
There are a few good plating companies out there. Personally, I like Power Seal. Great work and customer relations. (I have a cylinder there now)
As for your connecting rod, if your crank is in good shape with no rod issues keep it. IMO the Pro Series rod is the best rod that was made for the K5. I have been using these rods in my K5 motors for over 10 years with no issues. I guess that's why I bought all that I could find and still have 3 sitting on the shelf. (and no they aren't for sale)
-
+1 for Power Seal!
-
us chrome and millennium do great work too, millennium claims they have the hardest coating of any company out there.
-
Not good. How does the crank spin ?
The crank spins smoothly. Doesn't bind, doesn't make noise. The balls must still be there. Missing part of the cage perhaps? Hoping it's not play between the bearing and the case. As soon as Motosport decides to ship my super duper $20 flywheel puller I can take a look.
-
I'm looking to repair a few things on my plated frame and then paint it. Can anyone recommended some Kawi green paint? Not exactly sure what color of green to look for.
-
I'm looking to repair a few things on my plated frame and then paint it. Can anyone recommended some Kawi green paint? Not exactly sure what color of green to look for.
PJ1 made "Kawi KX green" years ago, excellent match, not sure if you can still get it.
-
you can still get it, if you want OEM results you will need blk primer.
Bob W
-
I looked for the PJ1, but I think it's been discontinued.
Question:
How far away from the cylinder surface should the face of the KIPS flap be? Mine is at least .050" away. I worked on my brother's CR250 a while ago and I remember his being much closer. Shouldn't it be as close as possible without touching the rings? Seems like you'd get better low speed compression if it was closer to sealing against the rings.
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/Photo360-1.jpg)
-
Here's a better picture of the gap I was talking about. I cleaned a bunch of carbon off the flap and now it's even wider. Probably pushing .100"
Has this flap been ground back for a big bore in a previous life?
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/Photo362.jpg)
-
Here is how mine looks. Dunno if its right either though lol
(http://i46.tinypic.com/1zeud0.jpg)
-
That looks about like mine. Must be normal then! Kawi engineers must have wanted to leave plenty of room for carbon.
-
Flywheel puller finally came in. Here's the breakdown:
Ready to come apart:
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/Photo377.jpg)
There's third gear! Popped the clip out of the groove:
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/Photo378.jpg)
Here's why the clip popped out (probably combined with a slightly bent shift fork):
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/Photo379.jpg)
Found the main bearing play. The cases are ok!
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/Photo381.jpg)
Explosion on the workbench:
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/Photo380.jpg)
Notice the DeWalt impact driver. I highly recommend it for working on bikes. Plenty of energy to knock fasteners loose in a really small package. MUCH better than spinning wrenches in my book. Ziiip ziiip ziiiip done!
-
I'm in the market for a service manual (pdf would be cool)... PMs welcome.
-
Just was reading this again and noticed you are in Washington! Have decided to SM and plate mine, but will probably Rim-n-spoke an extra set of wheels so I can throw the stock ones back on if I want to dirt the bike again quicky. Told a guy at work about the 'plan' and he went ape about it. He is a road racer that rode for Cagiva over seas. He would be a good choice to have wring it out at a track me thinks! Got to get it built first. Good to see you found the slop problem in the crank. Are you going to get it metal sprayed, welded, or just replace it?
-
I'm actually in Portland, so it's registered in Oregon. I don't know yet what I'll do with the crank. Can someone recommend a crank repair shop that could fix this? Otherwise I might try to grab one off eBay and have it rebuilt.
-
Picked up a crank assembly from an '04 on ebay. It's got to be in better shape than mine.
Also made a bit of progress on the cylinder:
Cutting .050 off the top (super low quality video):
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/th_Video035.jpg) (http://s857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/?action=view¤t=Video035.mp4)
A couple minutes with a stone yielded this:
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/Photo383.jpg)
I should now have close to zero deck clearance. I'll be fine tuning the squish with base gaskets.
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/Photo384.jpg)
Now I need to research head designs so I can 3D mill my squish band and combustion chamber 8-)
-
Finetunesquish with the head... not the base gaskets..
get it all assembled with the port time you want...
Measure measure measure..
THEN
cut the head.
-
Good call. I'll wait to modify the head until I have the engine together. I'm waiting on an angle attachment for my dremel so I can get in there and modify my intake ports. Then it will be time to send it off for plating.
Motorrad, did you have the plating company weld up the roof of your kips ports or did you do it yourself?
-
Good call. I'll wait to modify the head until I have the engine together. I'm waiting on an angle attachment for my dremel so I can get in there and modify my intake ports. Then it will be time to send it off for plating.
Motorrad, did you have the plating company weld up the roof of your kips ports or did you do it yourself?
company..
-
Well, it's been a while since I've posted in this thread. I spent the summer and fall dumping all my money into my wife's 69 VW Bug. That project is finished, so now back to the KX!
I've got the bottom end back together. Transmission from a '98 ish bike. New bearings throughout. Crank from an '04 rebuilt and balanced.
I just finished the porting today. I'll try to get some pics up soon.
New numbers are:
195 deg Ex and 130 deg In with .040" base gasket.
197 deg Ex and 133 deg In with a .055" base gasket.
Deck is zero with a .050" base gasket.
Planning on cutting the combustion chamber this week. Does anyone have a head cc recommendation? I was thinking 36cc, but haven't crunched the numbers yet.
Anyway, it's good to be back!
-
I apologize that it's not as pretty as some people's builds (coughmotorradcough) but I think it will get the job done. It had a new piston in a worn cylinder when I bought it. I'm thinking of riding it for a day to test my porting before I get the cylinder re plated and toss a fresh piston in.
Bottom end together. There's a component here that's positioned differently than stock. Let's see who can catch what it is.
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/9EA6F86D-B2EC-4F12-8A12-1F3A010C2C03-17654-00000218C9C9390C.jpg)
Intake goodness
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/25A453A7-24DA-4666-97EB-1749170DC25A-17654-0000021969D10A07.jpg)
Exhaust
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/FD167E82-C974-4D35-B194-0C359D49D1F0-17654-00000219595C19AD.jpg)
-
Did you lower the main exh port?
I count 3 non oem things in picture :0)
-
No, I didn't lower the exhaust port very much. I'll double check but I don't think I have much piston skirt to spare at TDC.
I shortened the clutch push rod a little. This swings the arm around a bit and places the cam in a position with more initial leverage. We'll see how it works. I can actuate the arm by hand at the moment.
-
No, I didn't lower the exhaust port very much. I'll double check but I don't think I have much piston skirt to spare at TDC.
I shortened the clutch push rod a little. This swings the arm around a bit and places the cam in a position with more initial leverage. We'll see how it works. I can actuate the arm by hand at the moment.
I'm running more base gasket than you.. And mine is lowered about 2-2.5mm. Check. There is good power found there..
Oscars motor. Had .060 with of base gasket, and I lowered his about .125"
Every motor is differant.. Have to measure each one before you cut
The billet clutch arm mod accomplishes that, with more leverage...
-
Quick question:
How much can I safely cut off the head's gasket surface?
Anyone ever take off too much?
-
And another question:
Does anyone have a recommendation for squish band angle?
My gut feeling is 7deg x .375"ish wide into 20-30deg x .250"ish wide then .125" radius into the hemisphere (width measurements are parallel to the deck).
I'm just shooting from the hip here. Never done this before. If someone would like to save me some trial and error, that would be great.
Thanks again guys!
-
Well, here goes:
Before:
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/FC15AD8F-C00A-4340-8358-A3A6D5C985ED-295-0000001B5B4ECEA4.jpg)
During:
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/0D882E61-E500-40F1-B76E-CCBDE861C681-295-0000001B68DF5CE7.jpg)
After:
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/D47C28AD-A4E4-4A53-9A20-84A111EBE0EE-295-0000001B6ECDEDFF.jpg)
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/707B49CA-7AE5-41B2-A34C-C1D0B722130C-295-0000001B73E42845.jpg)
-
New uncorrected compression ratio:
14:1
:-D
-
New uncorrected compression ratio:
14:1
:-D
looking good. you will be happy at that ratio.
what angles you run in the head?
-
Angles: 0-4-31-bowl
Finally bought a pickup so I can haul it around. Took it up into the hills to test ride it today with no riding gear and the plate zip-tyed to the fender. It got snowy before the pavement ended. The bike seems to rev a lot higher than it used to. Still, it could use some taller gears. 5th runs out pretty fast. It's got 14/48 right now. Thinking about trying 15/47.
Summary: Engine runs great! Time for lights and blinkers!
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/AF332503-9118-43DF-9BB6-BF00F174C1DB-1141-0000008C1FC8B14A.jpg)
Here are a couple short videos:
http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/201C57AF-1266-4B7A-B20E-7FB5E2F91FB7-1141-00000072AC6655A8.mp4
http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/369DC8C0-B722-4F0D-8D34-85D8DB12CCB7-1141-00000083C454F6C0.mp4
-
nice!....that thing sounds GOOD!!!....is that a pro circuit silencer I see on there?
-
Yeah. That's the one. Thinking I'll have to get a spark arrestor soon though. And pros or cons between fmf and pc?
-
Hot d**n.. dont know how I missed that one... love the first vid of the bike commin around the corner with the front tire in the air.
-
Yeah. That's the one. Thinking I'll have to get a spark arrestor soon though. And pros or cons between fmf and pc?
Ive only run the FMF turbine.. so Cant be of any constructive help.
-
+1 on the first vid!! :-D
-
Yeah. That's the one. Thinking I'll have to get a spark arrestor soon though. And pros or cons between fmf and pc?
I've only used the Pro Circuit spark arrestor...so I can't help you with any comparison...but the P/C seemed to work just fine,it was'nt all that much quieter in the upper revs....take into consideration that it was on a 250 though.
-
Oh, by the way, I'm still running a used wiseco, old rings, and a scuffed cylinder.
Dang, I need to find some more money. :|
-
Fun vid's. Sounds good.
-
All shined up and lit:
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/07D796BA-0093-44AE-BEB3-3B038E83405B-5277-00000317BC39680D.jpg)
Ready for this in the morning:
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/C893EDA4-1906-4746-8018-526B09AEB7AF-4038-0000024D9BB2F1C4.jpg)
-
how the heck did you get it plated in oregon???
-
I've run both fmf and pc spark arrestors. The pc is a lower grunty tone than fmf but the fmf seemed to flow better. Both were pretty close to the same db by ear. Never actually had a db tester.
Very nice work. Bike looks great.
-
how the heck did you get it plated in oregon???
I don't know how he did his but I bought a plated frame from another state.
Then according to the DMV, I had to make it look like a bike:
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,10863.0.html (http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,10863.0.html)
-
how the heck did you get it plated in oregon???
I bought the bike with the plate. The story I was told is that back in the early nineties when it was new ( or near new, not sure which) and the title was being transferred, the DMV employee asked the owner if he wanted a plate for it. He took the plate, but it was never installed (until now :-)).
-
Up till 2006 it was easy in Oregon.
Now it's a bit harder :-)
-
Well, after a year of fun with the big K5, I'm toying with the idea of selling it.
Thought I'd let you guys know first.
I'm not in any hurry, just thinking about starting a new project sometime this summer.
PM me if you're interested.
-
Made myself a few goodies last weekend:
Upper pipe spring mount (bolts on in place of kips chamber cover), 132.5mm suspension links, and a .050" base gasket (my fiber one didn't last very long).
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/BE714AC1-3DB3-494E-B91D-B0C19CEF193F-571-00000049EF43EB8D.jpg)
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/EE06062F-E795-4C7F-AB67-4542B8F0B35B-571-00000049FD8E9DFF.jpg)
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab140/jgturbo/KX500/568F3728-21BD-438C-94FD-D9DD31853F4F-571-0000004A041CCA40.jpg)
Loving the handling of the shorter pull links. Really woke the bike up.
Also, I've got a couple extra spring mounts in case any one else's cast-in mounts are just about wore through like mine were.