KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Original => Topic started by: reknelb on August 12, 2004, 05:03:19 PM
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I'm thinking of doing some hare scrambles next year and was wondering if anyone here has done them on a kx500? Any set-up tips or suggestions?
I know of a local guy that has one in his garage that he bought new back in 90-91, he raced it for a couple years and its been stored ever since. My buddies all ride the newer 4 strokes and i want to put them back in thier place :P
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The big KX is a most excellent hare scrambler. Just don't run one of them "OLD MAN" Rick weights :shock: :lol:
Honestly, all the KX needs for hare scrambling is gearing and suspension work, and a steering stabilizer.
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Ouch, Paul, that hurts... :)
I guess if I always ran good tires, I would like the power delivery better without the flywheel weight. I'm just too cheap.
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hahahaha :mrgreen:
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How does the flywheel weight affect the higher rpms and gears? Wouldn't you lose hp with added crank weight? I do like the idea of balancing the crank if it really works.
Any truth to the over heating, and jetting problems once the motor is warm? I think I read this on another site.
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Paul and Rick!
Be nice to each other!!!! :lol: :lol:
What`s hare scrambler ? :oops:
Do I like it? :twisted:
//doordie
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Jetting is important to get the 500 running good,but its worth the time!Overheating?Ive ridden in 118degrees last summer and I run aluminum radiator guards..no overheating.Doordie Harescrambles is a course through the woods that they race laps in a amount of time (hope I explained that right).
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Yup, correct explanation.
There are two primary types of racing in the west, long single loop events commonly called Hare & Hound, and short course mulit loop events commonly called Hare Scrambles. In a normal Hare & Hound, the course is comprised of 80-100 miles of trail, and generally covers one long loop or two separate loops with a pit in the middle. Point to point events also fall into this general category.
In contrast, a Hare Scrambles is a run over a short course, maybe 8-10 miles, and raced for a predetermined time. The rider who completes the most laps wins. An example of a Hare Scrambles format is the WORCS series, but an MX track is thrown into the mix of WORCS conpetition.
Along with the Hare & Hound events, the ISDE Qualifiers are another example of a long one loop event, but these have timed checks in the event, as well as special test sections. However, the format is still more like the Hare & Hound events. Unfortunately, since the ISDE team has little to do with competing in the Qualifiers anymore, they are on the decline.
Also, because of land restrictions, long one or two loop events like the Hare & Hound are also on the decline. Another nail in the coffin is the lack of spectator friendliness. Since sponsorship money follows spectator involvement, the more condensed events like the WORCS series have become the place to make the best money. This is exactly why Ben and I have moved away from the National Hare & Hound series, and into the world of WORCS racing. Better sponsorship support.
As for overheating, a properly jetted 500 will run wonderful in any terrain any time of year. Remember, the National Hare & Hound series events are run in the desert, with race time temps at or over 100 degrees. Since every HH event has tight technical sections, if the 500 were prone to overheating, it would not be the front runner more consisitently than any other machine.
Rick
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Even ballpark jetting is good. I'm a little rich at 3-4K ft, rode it up at 8-9K ft and it ran fine. Almost blubbery, but not an issue at all. Stay away from too lean and it'll run anywhere. Plenty of power without spot-on jetting...Pump gas premium unleaded 50:1 Spectro. Runs great, never fouls plugs, zero spooge, amazing versatile motor. Cant believe they're gone....A legendary offroad tool/toy for sure.
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I'm planning on racing hare scrambles this coming summer and some enduros too on the kx500, i've got 14oz. flywheel weight already and just looking for a ballpark figure of what size sprockets to run. The trails are tight for the most part, especially the enduros.
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Depends upon your skill level. I run 14/47 even in hare scrambles and ISDE Qualifiers, but some folks like to drop to something more in the 14/51 range.
Rick
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I'm in NY too. Are you going to run with wnyoa? I'm hoping to do some of the races in and around rochester. I cant help you out with gearing as I havent really been able to ride this thing yet. I just got it a month or so ago and had to have the shock rebuilt. I took the complete bike apart and repainted the frame black while the shock was at the suspension place. The spray can sky blue wasnt working for me. After stripping the paint I realized why the previous owner painted it, The color underneath was brite orange :P I have to say my bike is still the ugliest kx500 I've ever seen. 3 different shades of green plastics, a purple bar pad and no graphics :oops:
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Thanks Rick, this will be my first time racing, although i've ridden alot. Reknelb, where are you located!? I'm about an hour east of rochester and i commute to monroe cc. I'll be going to all the wnyoa events i can though. You'll have plenty of time to get your bike back together with all the snow were getting :? I'm new to the 500 thing as well.
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I live west of Rochester, north of Buffalo. Newfane ny. Me and a few buddies want to get out to a few rounds. I'm going to try out my bike with stock gearing.
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To prepare for Hare Scrambles in very tight woods, over the winter I set up my KX500 with 13/52 gearing,16 ounce flywheel weight, and hand guards.
The idea of the flywheel weight is to reduce the chance of stalling the engine. After a lot of KX500 kick starts I gradually become exhausted. An auto clutch would be a fantastic addition. The bike would be just perfect for tight woods racing with the flywheel weight and auto clutch. Another idea is the Magura hydraulic clutch. I lubricated my clutch cable, but the effort required is still very high.
I have not yet run my KX500 in tight woods with the 13/52 gearing and flywheel weight. I can't wait to try it when Spring arrives. :D
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I find the KX does very well in Hare Scrambles. I try to embarass the "real" woods bikes as often as I can. I run mine in the tight stuff at 14/48, no flywheel weight. I haven't tried lower gearing but even at 14/48 you can hit flat out in 5th on fire roads pretty quickly. I typically don't have much trouble stalling since the KX power is so electric smooth, and I use my clutch a lot to feed the power in controlled doses. Clean jetting is a must - it will also be an easy a 1-kick starter. I hear lot of clutch complaints but I find the KX clutch is more linear than the KTM hydraulic units. When the going gets tough they have trouble. Been on a couple of impossibly qnarly hills that gave the hydraulic clutches fits (once stopped can't get going again) but the KX creeps right up past them. There are some worthy clutch mods on the site (lengthen the arm and re-route the cable) that will make a significant difference to ease the pull. Here is my setup, in order of importance.
Good Jetting
woods tires
Handguards
Boysen dual-reeds
14/48 gearing
1/2" reed spacer
clutch mods
Hope this helps. Cam.
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Cam, i see you say woods tire, just curious as to what tire you suggest then?
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Ebers17,
I've been quite stoked about the Kenda Millville's, especially the front. In 34 years in the dirt this is the first tire pair I've found to make such a huge difference to a bike. Cam.
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I live west of Rochester, north of Buffalo. Newfane ny. Me and a few buddies want to get out to a few rounds. I'm going to try out my bike with stock gearing.
No kidding! I live in Middleport. I've race MX alittle for fun But a few of my friends want to try Hare scrambles, And do some trail riding this year
We should all get together and ride..........
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I just saw your for sale ad. Wish you had that for sale a couple months ago. I picked mine up in Albion. What are you going to ride if you sell the kx?
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I just saw your for sale ad. Wish you had that for sale a couple months ago. I picked mine up in Albion. What are you going to ride if you sell the kx?
04' Honda CRF450R. The KX is my spare/fun bike. I really like it, I just don't use it enough to warrent keeping it. I've got some spare parts, give me a call if you need some. Paul
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I ran my first wnyoa hare scramble with the kx500 sunday. What a blast!!! The kx was awesome. I ran 14t - 48t gearing, and was my first time with the millville tire. I blew by lots of guys in alot of spots where the mud was and everything. Except for losing my rear fender and bending my shift lever to the frame, everything was great! I was 1 or 2 in my class until my final lap i was stuck in 4th due to my shift lever getting wacked and i couldnt finish. Can't wait until the next event! - Seth
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Thats cool. I really want to make it out to an event or 2 or 3. My buddies dont like to leave the county so may have to go out to one by myself. They have posted some pics on the wnyoa site. What class were you in?and what number? i saw a few green bikes when I scanned through the pics. Good Job!
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Reknelb, thanks it was a blast. Its my first year so i'm in the open C class. I'm in one of those pictures, 5th row from the top, 4th one over from the left. I'm number 831 (my numbers partially covered though), white helmet, on the ground!!! I had the whole shot by a lot but locked up my brakes and slid out. Doesn't look it, but it was super slick. Hopefully see you around at some soon! - Seth
http://wnyoa.net/may1race%20032.jpg
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I recently rode my mint condition 2002 KX500 that I set up with 13/52 gearing and Steahly flywheel weight. I also have a 2005 KTM 300EXC which I have been riding quite a bit since March. I rode the KTM on Saturday then switched to the KX500 on Sunday. Here is what I noticed.
Compared to the 300EXC, the KX feels like it refused to make tight turns, such as making 90 degree turns around trees in the woods. The KX feels like it was designed to go real fast in a relatively straight line, and that's most likely what the engineers actually had in mind.
The KX is much more stable than the EXC running fast through deep sand and sweeping turns with berms made of sand.
These two bikes are very differnt indeed.
The 13/52 gearing is a waste of time unless you're going to be running very slow through extremely tight woods. But I now feel that the KX does not belong in the tight woods, at least as long as I have the EXC available.
I have my KX jetted such that the engine either idles or accelerates very hard. There is no inbetween. So riding along I'm either coasting or rolling on a very small amount of throttle which causes powerful acceleration and small wheelies. This is not a good characteristic for tight woods riding for me.
The power output of the 300EXC is just right for maintaining traction. The KX running through the 13/52 gearing broke traction too often. There is so much rock hard thrust available at all times. The 300EXC has a little "give" to the engine so that as the tire grabs and slows the engine traction is maintained. The KX never gives in so the tire breaks loose.
I got about 18 MPG riding very easy. The 300EXC uses about the same amount of fuel.
Since I have the 300EXC I'm giving up on using the KX500 for Hare Scrambles. Instead, I'm going to use the KX as a dual sport bike. I fortunately have a license plate. The gearing will go back to 14/47. I'll add the lighting coil, headlight, tail light, etc... I think I'll have more fun riding on trails, traveling between small towns in rural Minnesota. With the license plate I can ride into town and buy gas, etc... The 300EXC will be my Hare Scramble race bike.
I had thought about making the KX into a Supermotard street bike, rather than a dual sport. I'll stick with the 90% dirt, 10% street dual sport plan. I now think that a 4-stroke engine would be better suited to a Supermotard street bike that would be ridden 90% street and 10% dirt.
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You know, I've always loved my KX500, but I can't seem to tame it riding tight trials and GP type moto courses. I've recently looked into getting a new bike. Either a GasGas 300 or KTM 300. The painful part is that I may be forced to sell my beloved KX500. If so, I'm really going to miss that motor and frame when I'm in the fast stuff during a desert race. :(
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I dont know,its a lot of personal preference on what you like about the 500 compared to another bike.At first I didnt like rideing the 500 in the woods for most of the reasons listed above,but after awhile I loved it and dont ever want to be with out one.I did buy a KX250 for moto/woods use,but my KX500 is still my favorite bike even if its not as modern as the new bikes.I know the bike can win at hare scrambles,Ron Naylor rode a KX 500 to first over all at the Shasta Dam hare and hound the other year and smoked all the "new" bikes by quite a ways,Im sure Rick would agree.The 500 isnt for everyone,and unfortanately thats one reason there not made any more.
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Ramsky,
I always had trouble getting my KX to go where I wanted and to tuck under in tight turns. Changing the tires, especially the front made the difference for me. Also, bumping up the low and mid-range power let me use more throttle (but controlled) in the corners, so you exit faster before that wicked KX top end kicks in. But hey, the 300EXC is a very nice machine. With a gnarly (and jetting-it's gotta be the only bike jetted worse than the KX500) it has some nice power. Cam.