KX Riders

Maintenance & Technical => KX250 / KX125 => Topic started by: adam9185 on January 09, 2012, 07:25:27 AM

Title: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: adam9185 on January 09, 2012, 07:25:27 AM
Hi all I've got a 2006 KX 250, I've fitted the pro circuit link arm but now im after getting a set of triple clamps to alter the head angle.
What angle would people recommend i change to and who sells them.
Any other info on this would be great.
cheers
Adam
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: adam9185 on January 09, 2012, 09:12:57 AM
rg3 recommend an offset of 21.5mm, is this heading in the right direction?
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: The Flyin Hawaiian on January 09, 2012, 09:31:47 AM
How did that PC link work out for you? I have a 07 250 and dont like the way it handles. The front end is very vague and doesnt seem to want to stay planted. My 04 and 03 KX250s are way more confidence inspiring. All of them are revalved for woods riding.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: adam9185 on January 09, 2012, 10:11:22 AM
The pc link has made a difference but it still needs impovement, been told about having the head cut and the angle changed by O.5 degee.
Seems like a cheaper option that hopefully would sort the problem rather than make it a little better.
Im goin to look into getting it done before the season starts!
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: The Flyin Hawaiian on January 09, 2012, 03:13:58 PM
Ive heard of that also and was thinking about doing it too! I know a guy that did alot of developement work for Suzuki and Honda. His name is Drew Smith, the owner of WER (suspension and steering dampener people) Ive heard stories of him getting a new PE250 the night before an enduro, cutting the frame and welding it back up to change the geometry to his liking! Im going to ask if he can do the work.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: adam9185 on January 09, 2012, 07:26:00 PM
let me know how you get on, a friend of mine is a fabricator and works mostly on race cars so im thinking of asking him.
I can't see this costing too much?
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: joko on January 16, 2012, 12:10:46 PM
 I have a set of 21.5mm offset triple clamps on order from Applied for my 05kx250, they'll be delivered in 2 weeks and I'll let you know how they work (if there's no snow here in CT!). The clamps will add more trail ... see MXA's test of this bike, they explain the handling problem.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: The Flyin Hawaiian on January 17, 2012, 09:57:36 AM
Im thinking about giving this a shot before any frame modifications, rekluse e-axle.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: joko on January 17, 2012, 02:11:46 PM
I looked into Rekluse axles, but they
don't make them any more.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: The Flyin Hawaiian on January 17, 2012, 03:58:36 PM
That figures! :x
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: adam9185 on January 18, 2012, 12:16:11 AM
The Triple Clamps only alter the offset and not the Head angle, but let me know what difference it makes to the bikes handling.
I've been told running 105mm sag makes it better, im getting the Head cut at the end of the moth so will try and get some pics up and let you know what the result was.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: joko on January 18, 2012, 12:40:04 PM
 What angle would you change the head to? Stock is 26 degrees, 2003-2004 was 27 degrees.
Seems kind of risky to cut and alter the head angle without alot of secondary alignment issues?
 Maybe you could get a 03-04 frame on ebay instead, if all other parts would match?
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: adam9185 on January 18, 2012, 07:49:24 PM
Well along with the pro circuit link im looking at 27.5 degree, the guy who is doin the work says there will be no problem.
He has done this job before but on a different bike, but if it did go all wrong i have an 05 aswell which i would just swap frames with.
I know its a big job but i hopefully it will all pay off, ill let you know if i think it was worth all the work once its done.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: KXDINO on January 21, 2012, 02:26:11 PM
Works great with extra .5 of a degree on head angle.Besides you can adjust link length to fine tune,We,ve been running this set up for over a year with no problems.This bikes handle good,were before it would tuck ,wash out half way around a corner ,so you would have to prop bike up with your leg.In stock form it a shocker.Back to back test with kx250f 09 the modified frame bike is better.I heard kaw factory team  had offset bearing cups in there kx250 frames ,could not track any down so had to do it old fashion way.Would i do it again?you bet.
 kxdino.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: The Flyin Hawaiian on January 24, 2012, 04:57:38 PM
Spoke to the guy that I would like to do the frame mod and he said no problem. He too has done many of these mods. Hopefully Ill have it done in a month or so.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: adam9185 on January 25, 2012, 08:16:52 AM
i can't wait to get mine done, ground up rebuild whilst its stripped will feel like I've bough a 2012 kx 250 haha
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: The Flyin Hawaiian on January 25, 2012, 08:39:57 AM
I rebuilt it early last year and parked it. It was bought new in 07 then sat in the garage until the 2010 race season started so its a fairly low time bike. Nobody liked to ride it because of its quirky handling. I cant wait to get it done either!
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: KevinTwoStk on January 25, 2012, 11:53:01 AM
If both of you would, please post pics of the results. I would love to see how this is done.

Bummer that the last years of the KX250 were occupied by a bike with flawed handling, so hopefully the head tube mod is a worthwhile fix.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: joko on February 17, 2012, 02:37:33 PM
 Ride Report !  I installed the applied 21.5 mm offset clamps (stock offset =25mm) and the bike handles so much better now! Goes exactly where the the front wheel is pointed, feels very similar to my 05 cr250, but tracks much straighter and feels more planted, even in deep sand. I was going to sell the bike due to it's poor handling with the stock triple clamps, but the new 21.5 clamps really make the handling excellent now. Now to fix the hard clutch pull, maybe a moose easy clutch...   
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: KevinTwoStk on February 21, 2012, 07:07:34 AM
Ride Report !  I installed the applied 21.5 mm offset clamps (stock offset =25mm) and the bike handles so much better now! Goes exactly where the the front wheel is pointed, feels very similar to my 05 cr250, but tracks much straighter and feels more planted, even in deep sand. I was going to sell the bike due to it's poor handling with the stock triple clamps, but the new 21.5 clamps really make the handling excellent now. Now to fix the hard clutch pull, maybe a moose easy clutch...   

Do you have the Pro Circuit linkage as well?
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: joko on February 22, 2012, 01:49:29 PM
 No don't have the PC linkage, don't think it needs it
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: adam9185 on March 08, 2012, 01:37:04 AM
Whats it like at high speed now with offset clamps, Does it get head shake?

Im Still getting my head cut on the 06 but might try a set on tripple clamps on my 05.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: joko on March 09, 2012, 01:25:29 PM
No headshake at all, it's very stable now compared to what it was.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: KXDINO on March 09, 2012, 02:35:05 PM
I would of went for different clamps too ,but changing the offset doesn;t change the head angle,which i felt was to steep ,especially hitting small but steep jumps,felt like you were been thrown towards the front of bike.Plus the traits of it cornering ability ,suggested a to steep of head angle.Most kxf are around 27 degree mark,but when i read team kawi used offset bearing cups on kx250 to slacken angle , i knew i was on the right track.Also the forks need revalveing as they are harsh and dont help with turning ability ether.If you have std valveing still ,i have settings you could try. But i have to inbox you the valveing setting, if you like.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: adam9185 on March 12, 2012, 09:51:42 AM
Kxdino
would be great if you could email me valving options, i have been looking at ordering the race tech gold valve kit type 1 i think?
would this fix things?
The frame went into the shop today, im with you on the head angle and am looking forward to getting on the track.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: KevinTwoStk on March 15, 2012, 01:12:00 PM
I'm glad to hear this is happening.

Can you get some close-up photos of the frame when it's done?

I'd love to see photos of the frame only, as well as the complete bike.

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: adam9185 on March 21, 2012, 06:07:00 AM
Frame has now been done, im hoping to collect it tomorrow and ill get some photos up as soon as i can.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: adam9185 on April 12, 2012, 08:53:21 AM
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/AdamDarby_2007/20120326_183855.jpg)
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/AdamDarby_2007/20120326_183824.jpg)
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/AdamDarby_2007/20120326_183815.jpg)
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/AdamDarby_2007/20120326_183846.jpg)
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: adam9185 on April 12, 2012, 08:55:55 AM
After painting you cant really tell its been done.
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/AdamDarby_2007/20120328_190154.jpg)
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/AdamDarby_2007/20120328_190134.jpg)
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/AdamDarby_2007/20120328_190207.jpg)
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: KevinTwoStk on April 15, 2012, 04:16:03 AM
Very cool!

You're right: with paint over it, it looks stock and untouched.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: The Flyin Hawaiian on April 15, 2012, 06:39:55 AM
Cant wait for a ride report!
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: adam9185 on April 15, 2012, 07:14:07 AM
I've fitted Race tech Gold valve kit (Type 1 forks) ( G3-LD rear) I've obviously not ridden it yet but just from the feel from sitting on in the garage it feels really good, now there is a noticeable big difference when adjusting the clickers.
Im just waiting for my wheels to turn up now so hoping to have her ready for the end of the month.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: motoguy46 on September 29, 2012, 12:52:43 PM
sorry to kickstart an old thread....but i would love to hear more about on this topic
 
who did you trust to do this? cost? time? do they want to do another one?

if you were to do it again would you like more or less angle?

any ride reports?



 kxdino
 adam9185
still around? thanks for any input
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: KXDINO on September 29, 2012, 04:02:09 PM
motoguy46 i had a pro welder do mine, cost is nothing compared to a knee or a ankle injury that these model could in flict
by the turn and stomp chassis. About 5 hours to do the job. Yes i would do a another, i wound  not ride one std form again.
The angles is just right, these model have a few flaws the head angle works well witha longer dog bone on the link. 3mm to be exact, i rode the latest 2013 ktm 250 sx, and felt the kx was a better bike, i have revalves the suspension front and back
as it confused from the factory, who ever tested the bike must have rode on a perfect track.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: KXDINO on September 29, 2012, 04:18:04 PM
Dont get me wrong,the modded kx handled better than the ktm,but the ktm had more grunt.The ktm felt like the front end wanted to tuck in soft berms,i saw mxa try longer pull rod on the link to rectify the problem,another guy giac 76 did his frame as well and was happy with the results.Hope this helps,if you need more info contact me personally.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: motoguy46 on September 30, 2012, 07:25:00 AM
thanks for the reply kxdino..i have revalved suspension and a pc link,the suspension action is great and i've wanted to try offset bearings or triples but ultimately think changing the frame angle to 27/27.5 would be the hot ticket. what angle do you think is perfect?   
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: KXDINO on September 30, 2012, 08:17:02 AM
You already have pc link ,good your half way there,now take frame from 26 to 26.5 degrees ,3mm open at the bottom of frame head tube.You dont need any more than this,this should give the bike about 120mm of trail depending sag etc.Find a person who can weld properly ,there a spot under the frame on a gusset near the head tube the factory does not weld ,do this as well.Now you will have a bike that handles properly,khi should never have went from 27 in 04 to 26 in 05 to 08 and they did not alter anything else to compensate,these model need plenty of mods in other areas as well ,i will write one day when i finish all the things i want to do with it,and not just bolt ons.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: giac76 on September 30, 2012, 09:39:32 AM
Hi, I did this mod few months ago,thanks to KXDINO and his help! I had to do this years ago!!! now the bike it's much better, few hours of work and a big improve. I use the longer pull rod in the link ( + 3mm) and the frame opened 3 mm at the bottom. Now the front wheel does not slide more  and the bike is more firm on the bumps and doesn't push on the front. I don't want more go back to standard one!
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: motoguy46 on October 01, 2012, 02:43:46 PM
any comments on 5th gear stability after the mod??
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: KXDINO on October 01, 2012, 04:07:57 PM
BETTER.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: motoguy46 on October 08, 2012, 03:47:53 PM
kxdino. what race sag do you run??
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: KXDINO on October 10, 2012, 07:31:08 AM
100 mm
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: The Flyin Hawaiian on October 11, 2012, 12:05:39 PM
Im pretty sure Im getting mine done next month. Cant wait to try it out! That fixes the handling now I have to figure out how to get more lowend out of it!
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: KXDINO on October 11, 2012, 08:29:07 PM
A bit more low end would be nice,there heaps of ways to get more low end,but dont want to loose top end either,that the hard part,i got a few things in mind but it a question of spare cash.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: The Flyin Hawaiian on October 12, 2012, 12:05:39 AM
I hear that! Mine is set up for enduros so a little loss of topend power is ok with me. I have a FMF Gnarly, FMF Q silencer, Boyeson reeds, and 13/53 gearing. It just doesnt lug like my 04 250 does. I have a few ideas also but the lack of cash is slowing things down some.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: KXDINO on October 12, 2012, 09:20:10 AM
One of the problems is 05 to 08 is to rich off the bottom and lean up top ,they say the straight section of jet needle is to short ,theres a tuner who makes them right  ,be nice to try one ? I will be contacting him in due course to see if i can get one or the measurement of it.Just another area to look at.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: motoguy46 on October 13, 2012, 07:37:09 AM
I've had good luck with just shortening the stock silencer a little bit at a time until I'm happy with the amount of lowend...it just shifts the power lower in rpms...you do lose topend but its a free mod if you still have the stocker..and clean up the  jetting  jd needles worked well for me
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: KXDINO on October 13, 2012, 09:00:19 AM
moto what info have you got about the jd needles,what did you use etc.Thanks.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: motoguy46 on October 13, 2012, 11:58:35 AM
they are sold in a jet kit..it consists of several std kehin mains 168 165 162 maybe a few more..a 45 pilot and 2 needles (a red and a blue).. the needles make the kit special and aren't sold seperately..one is designed for warm conditions (leaner) and the other cold conditions (richer)..they are triple taper and as far as the letter designations goes are not easily comparable to other available needles.. i am not at home but i recall them recommending 165 blue #3 and trying the 45pilot as thier baseline spec,, and imho i thinks its an excellent baseline (although slightly rich for my altitude/setup)..it pulls good  and seems to be less finicky than nftg
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: 89EVOBart on November 09, 2012, 09:23:17 AM
little kick...

Just bought a 06 KX250 and after a few rides at the track i felt like my front tire was punctured... Already found out that 21,5mm clamps should help but how about those PC link kit. Where can i find it... when i look on ebay i only can find kits for KXF bikes...or is the link system from my 06 kx the same a for the 06+ KXF bikes?
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: Enginerd on November 09, 2012, 10:06:34 AM
Just bought a 06 KX250 and after a few rides at the track i felt like my front tire was punctured... Already found out that 21,5mm clamps should help but how about those PC link kit. Where can I find it... when I look on ebay i only can find kits for KXF bikes...or is the link system from my 06 kx the same a for the 06+ KXF bikes?
Here's where you can buy the link directly from Pro-Circuit http://www.procircuit.com/129-lnk-arm-kx250-ft05-07.html (http://www.procircuit.com/129-lnk-arm-kx250-ft05-07.html)

Here's a cheaper alternative that will do the same thing.  Its called the Kouba Link, made by a guy named Norm Kouba.
http://www.koubalink.com/KX250%202005-7%20%202%20stroke.html (http://www.koubalink.com/KX250%202005-7%20%202%20stroke.html)  The KX250-1 link will lower the rear of the bike just like the Pro-Circuit link, but you aren't paying for PC's name.

I'm planning on trying the Kouba Link soon.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: KXDINO on November 09, 2012, 12:32:02 PM
I just get the std one lengthen by 3mm ,tig welded  of course only cost about 30 bucks ,done a few now,never seen a modded one break yet.Thats only a half fix,these bike benifit by slackening the head angle to 26.5 degrees.
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: 89EVOBart on November 09, 2012, 06:31:22 PM
Just bought a 06 KX250 and after a few rides at the track i felt like my front tire was punctured... Already found out that 21,5mm clamps should help but how about those PC link kit. Where can I find it... when I look on ebay i only can find kits for KXF bikes...or is the link system from my 06 kx the same a for the 06+ KXF bikes?
Here's where you can buy the link directly from Pro-Circuit http://www.procircuit.com/129-lnk-arm-kx250-ft05-07.html (http://www.procircuit.com/129-lnk-arm-kx250-ft05-07.html)

Here's a cheaper alternative that will do the same thing.  Its called the Kouba Link, made by a guy named Norm Kouba.
http://www.koubalink.com/KX250%202005-7%20%202%20stroke.html (http://www.koubalink.com/KX250%202005-7%20%202%20stroke.html)  The KX250-1 link will lower the rear of the bike just like the Pro-Circuit link, but you aren't paying for PC's name.

I'm planning on trying the Kouba Link soon.

thanks, will look into that :-)
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: joko on February 17, 2013, 01:50:02 PM
Hi everyone,
 I have my Applied 21.5mm triple clamps up for sale on ebay if anyone is interested. They work great, I sold the KX250 to concentrate on my KX500's ... check it out at:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/200897722180?item=200897722180&viewitem=&vxp=mtr

 - Joe
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: motoguy46 on March 06, 2013, 06:00:34 PM
joko   what fork tube height and sag were you running with the applied triples?? any other suspension mods/ recommendations?? thanks for any input
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: Charlie500 on March 06, 2013, 10:16:06 PM
Found a 06 kx 250 for cheap.... Should I not buy it because of this or do the triple clamps fix the issue pretty easily?
Title: Re: kx 250 2006 head angle/ offset!
Post by: USMC 500 on March 07, 2013, 04:03:27 PM
Found a 06 kx 250 for cheap.... Should I not buy it because of this or do the triple clamps fix the issue pretty easily?

I think that you have been spoiled on your 500 and you might feel a bit teased on the 250....... :lol: